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Post by donut on Aug 4, 2021 14:36:53 GMT -5
That's literally the definition of underachieved.
I think Turkey beats Korea if the tournament did best of series. If they make the semis, would you consider it underachieving? Hanging that much on a 2-3 loss to KYK playing out of her mind feels incorrect.
mmm in one sense yes. But Turkey’s issues at the start of the quad were the exact same at the end. They’re inconsistent and their OHs especially. Is a QF loss underachieving? No. But their inconsistency was the same the whole quad and didn’t get better in that regard Do you think Guidetti was supposed to turn Meliha and Hande into clones of Zhu Tings? Who in the Turkish pipeline is better? That's a talent issue, not a coaching issue, and talent issues aren't going to get resolved in 4 years.
And I think you're looking at it wrong -- they're "inconsistent" (not sure I necessarily agree with that, but we can assume it's true for a second) because they played above their level for solid streaks this quad. I mean, in addition to their OHs, they have literally been rotating between a 33-year-old opposite and an opposite who can't stay on her feet for more than 5 minutes. All things considered, their results this quad have been very good.
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 14:41:15 GMT -5
mmm in one sense yes. But Turkey’s issues at the start of the quad were the exact same at the end. They’re inconsistent and their OHs especially. Is a QF loss underachieving? No. But their inconsistency was the same the whole quad and didn’t get better in that regard Do you think Guidetti was supposed to turn Meliha and Hande into clones of Zhu Tings? Who in the Turkish pipeline is better? That's a talent issue, not a coaching issue, and talent issues aren't going to get resolved in 4 years.
And I think you're looking at it wrong -- they're "inconsistent" (not sure I necessarily agree with that, but we can assume it's true for a second) because they played above their level for solid streaks this quad. I mean, in addition to their OHs, they have literally been rotating between a 33-year-old opposite and an opposite who can't stay on her feet for more than 5 minutes. All things considered, their results this quad have been very good.
lol at the Zhu Ting comment. But Baladin and Ismailoglu didn’t really even become reliable, which I think is a fair expectation to have. With how much people have said that Guidetti can bring out the best in players, yeah I think it’s not wrong that I had that expectation to see some consistency and reliability from them. Maybe it is more so on the players, and in that case I would be putting unfair expectations on Guidetti. Once again, I have never argued against results altogether. JUST consistency. Which I think is fair to say they lack given how they can nearly lose to Canada or China’s B team, but then go and beat Russia. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 14:45:02 GMT -5
Turkey's OH issues are way deeper than Guidetti.
Might be a conversation for the Turkish league thread... but there's reasons...
Guidetti probably tried his best... but yea... no bueno
(although #FreeIlkin)
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 4, 2021 14:46:12 GMT -5
"Just better attacking pins".... sigh. And that's a retrospective take on the qualifier. Poland should have qualified; Holland would have been better situated had they not completely imploded too. Turkey was on Germany's level of hoping to overachieve. People are only saying that Poland should’ve qualified because they blew that match against Turkey and because Boz had her best match. Just as my view is a retrospective take, yours is as well. We won’t agree on this, so I don’t feel the need to continue to explain my sentiments towards Turkey. If I weren’t on mobile, you’d be getting my dance moms gif |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 14:46:19 GMT -5
Turkey's OH issues are way deeper than Guidetti. Might be a conversation for the Turkish league thread... but there's reasons... Guidetti probably tried his best... but yea... no bueno (although #FreeIlkin) honestly im surpised we never saw karakurt on the outside with boz at opp |
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 14:46:55 GMT -5
People are only saying that Poland should’ve qualified because they blew that match against Turkey and because Boz had her best match. Just as my view is a retrospective take, yours is as well. We won’t agree on this, so I don’t feel the need to continue to explain my sentiments towards Turkey. If I weren’t on mobile, you’d be getting my dance moms gif bruh, I don’t know what that is 🥴🤦🏻♂️ |
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 14:50:58 GMT -5
Anywayyyyyys, i guess put me on the VT Villain team thank you
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Post by huskersrule95 on Aug 4, 2021 14:56:29 GMT -5
Final 4 Gold medal odds
Brazil +125
USA +185
Serbia +300
South Korea +1800
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Post by donut on Aug 4, 2021 14:59:53 GMT -5
This absolutely does not make you a villain lol. That's cute though.
This is how I would quickly summarize the conversation.
You: Turkey's players aren't that good.
Me/c4ndle(?): Yes, which is why their results are impressive.
You: But they weren't consistently impressive, so I'm disappointed.
It's confusing. It's hard to pin down your expectations for Guidetti, but he's not going to be able to completely change a player. Hande and Meliha have always had their issues, just like Buijs and Flak still had their reliability/consistency issues while Guidetti was at the helm in Netherlands.
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Post by bumpsetsonly on Aug 4, 2021 15:00:37 GMT -5
I'm back ya'll. Serbia-Italy was a beatdown that I was not expecting. Egonu made so many errors that I think she needed to be subbed out even if no one could replicate her offensive production, at least they could prevent giving away points and make Serbia score more. Serbia has proven that they can defend against a one-dimensional team but can they stop a more balanced team? Can the US BE a balanced team with or without JT? If I were Terzic I'd claim myself a genius for avoiding the matchup with ROC.
I'm glad I watched the Brazil-ROC game unspoiled, super competitive and back and forth. Brazil found some depth and it really paid off.
I kind of want a rematch between Brazil and a Serbia who cares...don't care what medal they're playing for. If ROC made it, I wanted a rematch between US and them.
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Post by donut on Aug 4, 2021 15:05:00 GMT -5
also lol if we're going to knock Turkey down a level for consistency because of Canada and China B team, we better throw USA in the consistency trashcan for their tight victories this quad (see: Bulgaria)
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 15:07:56 GMT -5
This absolutely does not make you a villain lol. That's cute though. This is how I would quickly summarize the conversation. You: Turkey's players aren't that good. Me/c4ndle(?): Yes, which is why their results are impressive. You: But they weren't consistently impressive, so I'm disappointed. It's confusing. It's hard to pin down your expectations for Guidetti, but he's not going to be able to completely change a player. Hande and Meliha have always had their issues, just like Buijs and Flak still had their reliability/consistency issues while Guidetti was at the helm in Netherlands. I was kidding 🙃 Anyways, I think my expectations must stem from the fact that Baladin and Ismailoglu are relatively young and are at an age where I would expect to see improvement. Also, y’all changed the subject to results. I didn’t bring them up first lol. Here’s how I’d summarize my sentiments: Guidetti, a coach who is known for bettering his players, couldn’t find that same effect with the Turkish OHs and Opps to a certain extent (who were changed around more than the OHs, which is why I don’t focus on them). That then resulted in inconsistency as a whole from the team. No he’s not going to change a player, never said he would, but these players have shown flashes of brilliance and great play over the quad. I just expected that at some point these flashes of good play would stay. There it is |
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Post by chatchu-off moksri on Aug 4, 2021 15:24:43 GMT -5
manifesting a Korea medal because why f*cking not
i will not accept a 4th place because my emotions are still just not stable
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2021 15:34:39 GMT -5
I have a minute so lets talk Turkish OH's.
Turkey is going to have OH issues unless 1) the TVF steps in 2) they have a breakout athlete
90% of the problem stems from the Turkish league. The league limits their team to three foreigners in an attempt to promote turkish talent. Good, right?
Well... no. Most of the international talent in the league are... you guessed it... Pins. Gabi/MBH/Haak, JT/Boskovic/Adams (next year), Kelsey/Vargas/Busa, Kingdon/Santana(Rabadzhieva/Van Ryk) and everyone else. These are the money makers and are going to play the important matches (when possible) and play all of the European matches.
So this leaves the turkish players playing second fiddle... so they could play for the other teams right? well no. With having a foreigner limit of 3, if you dont have a turkish setter you pretty much have to have a turkish pin for the league games... so all of the top teams want to have options with the best turkish talent to replace the foreigners for domestic games. (Meliha/Tugba at Vakif, Hande/Saliha/Fatma at Ecza, Seyma at THY, Aydin at Gala)... so they're not getting all of the matches/exposure that they should be... really hindering their development.. We saw Derya have a breakout year... where does she end up? Vakifbank. Teams with Turkish setters have even more flexibility and potentially less playing time for the turkish OH's (Vakif could send Gabi/MBH/Haak with Cansu, Fenerbahce the same with Naz, THY did the same with Ebrar using two foreign OHs)
The best thing turkey could do? Ironically is expand their foreigner limit. This would help stop top teams from hoarding all of the turkish talent to ride their benches.
Guidetti has some control over this (he is the coach at Vakifbank) but he can't help players like Meliha or Hande. Their development is hindered when the club brings in players like Kelsey or JT to take playing time away from them. (more Saliha than Hande in that case)
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Post by Resident Bitchy Canadian Fan on Aug 4, 2021 15:36:47 GMT -5
I have a minute so lets talk Turkish OH's. Turkey is going to have OH issues unless 1) the TVF steps in 2) they have a breakout athlete 90% of the problem stems from the Turkish league. The league limits their team to three foreigners in an attempt to promote turkish talent. Good, right? Well... no. Most of the international talent in the league are... you guessed it... Pins. Gabi/MBH/Haak, JT/Boskovic/Adams (next year), Kelsey/Vargas/Busa, Kingdon/Santana(Rabadzhieva/Van Ryk) and everyone else. These are the money makers and are going to play the important matches (when possible) and play all of the European matches. So this leaves the turkish players playing second fiddle... so they could play for the other teams right? well no. With having a foreigner limit of 3, if you dont have a turkish setter you pretty much have to have a turkish pin for the league games... so all of the top teams want to have options with the best turkish talent to replace the foreigners for domestic games. (Meliha/Tugba at Vakif, Hande/Saliha/Fatma at Ecza, Seyma at THY, Aydin at Gala)... so they're not getting all of the matches/exposure that they should be... really hindering their development.. We saw Derya have a breakout year... where does she end up? Vakifbank. Teams with Turkish setters have even more flexibility and potentially less playing time for the turkish OH's (Vakif could send Gabi/MBH/Haak with Cansu, Fenerbahce the same with Naz, THY did the same with Ebrar using two foreign OHs) The best thing turkey could do? Ironically is expand their foreigner limit. This would help stop top teams from hoarding all of the turkish talent to ride their benches. Guidetti has some control over this (he is the coach at Vakifbank) but he can't help players like Meliha or Hande. Their development is hindered when the club brings in players like Kelsey or JT to take playing time away from them. (more Saliha than Hande in that case) thank you for explaining it to me ☺️ It’s clear my expectations were too steep. |
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