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Post by mervinswerved on Jul 12, 2021 20:07:00 GMT -5
World cup semi and a Euro final in the last three years. Solidly top five in the world and should be one of the favorites at next year's WC. So no, that sounds about right. No, that doesn't change the reality England has not won a major tournament since 1966. No one remembers second place... If the standard is winning tournaments, sure. But that's not the standard for anyone other than Brazil and maybe France/Germany/Italy. Spain was terrible (by their standard) for years until they developed a golden generation and won everything for a while. And lots of people remember teams which don't win specifically because most teams never win a trophy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 22:10:15 GMT -5
Argentina had the best player ever for 15 years and they *just* won a major trophy for the first time in Messi's career. Winning tournaments is incredibly hard. Pele did not suit up for the Argentines the past 15 years.
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Euro 2020
Jul 12, 2021 22:24:53 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mervinswerved on Jul 12, 2021 22:24:53 GMT -5
Argentina had the best player ever for 15 years and they *just* won a major trophy for the first time in Messi's career. Winning tournaments is incredibly hard. Pele did not suit up for the Argentines the past 15 years. Lol
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Post by ironhammer on Jul 14, 2021 8:40:50 GMT -5
No, that doesn't change the reality England has not won a major tournament since 1966. No one remembers second place... If the standard is winning tournaments, sure. But that's not the standard for anyone other than Brazil and maybe France/Germany/Italy. Spain was terrible (by their standard) for years until they developed a golden generation and won everything for a while. And lots of people remember teams which don't win specifically because most teams never win a trophy. I think English fans expect more than coming up empty, trophy-wise. They yearn for a championship for their National team. I think it's because English players are not great. They are merely very good. International football tends to rely more on individuals than club football because they have less time to play together. This is also why defence is better in international football because that is the easiest part to organise and work on a system. Of the England players, Sterling, Kane, are the best players individually. But Sterling is not even the best at Man City. Kane was poor during the Euros and perhaps should have done more. Grealish and Saka are the best in their teams, but these are mid-table teams. Shaw and Maguire played really well, but at Man U, they are probably not in the top 3 players in the team. Henderson, Rice, Phillips, Mount, are decent players and mostly played well during the Euros. But they are the type of players who complement the stars. So this meant England had a group of these good players who provided a great foundation that got them to the final (partly through luck and partly through organised play) but lacked the x factor to win it all.
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Post by nowhereman on Jul 14, 2021 11:20:54 GMT -5
This is a little OT but I found it surprising that Germany was at 12 in the rankings.
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Euro 2020
Jul 14, 2021 20:35:26 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by preschooler on Jul 14, 2021 20:35:26 GMT -5
If the standard is winning tournaments, sure. But that's not the standard for anyone other than Brazil and maybe France/Germany/Italy. Spain was terrible (by their standard) for years until they developed a golden generation and won everything for a while. And lots of people remember teams which don't win specifically because most teams never win a trophy. I think English fans expect more than coming up empty, trophy-wise. They yearn for a championship for their National team. I think it's because English players are not great. They are merely very good. International football tends to rely more on individuals than club football because they have less time to play together. This is also why defence is better in international football because that is the easiest part to organise and work on a system. Of the England players, Sterling, Kane, are the best players individually. But Sterling is not even the best at Man City. Kane was poor during the Euros and perhaps should have done more. Grealish and Saka are the best in their teams, but these are mid-table teams. Shaw and Maguire played really well, but at Man U, they are probably not in the top 3 players in the team. Henderson, Rice, Phillips, Mount, are decent players and mostly played well during the Euros. But they are the type of players who complement the stars. So this meant England had a group of these good players who provided a great foundation that got them to the final (partly through luck and partly through organised play) but lacked the x factor to win it all. It is the hope that kills you
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