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Post by guest2 on Dec 2, 2021 19:41:19 GMT -5
dunninla3 I hope you are aware of how biased you sound regarding Sponcil I leave it to others to determine what my bias is... by definition I wouldn't know. To be specific, what about my statement that "Sponcil's mitts are the best out there" is biased? Who do you think sets the ball better than Sponcil? My perspective is informed by watching both eras of beach setting rules... the original AVP rules from late 80's through the early 2010s, and the current interpretation of the rules which I would characterize as "throw ball", or to look at it differently, to apply indoor setting rules interpretation to the Beach. I know good setting when I see it after 35+ years of watching setters indoor and beach. I will share a bias that I know to be a bias. I wish setting rules would go back to what they were 20 years ago. This would make it harder for taller, less coordinated players who cannot set properly to increasingly dominate the current game. Being able to set used to be a requirement. It no longer is. Hard to argue with Sarah as the best setter. She exploits the crummy rules better than maybe anyone other than AP or Taryn Kloth - the Roberto Duran of beach volleyball. Plus Sarah actually has good hands to start with.
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Post by stull90210 on Dec 3, 2021 18:56:35 GMT -5
dunninla3 I hope you are aware of how biased you sound regarding Sponcil I leave it to others to determine what my bias is... by definition I wouldn't know. To be specific, what about my statement that "Sponcil's mitts are the best out there" is biased? Who do you think sets the ball better than Sponcil? My perspective is informed by watching both eras of beach setting rules... the original AVP rules from late 80's through the early 2010s, and the current interpretation of the rules which I would characterize as "throw ball", or to look at it differently, to apply indoor setting rules interpretation to the Beach. I know good setting when I see it after 35+ years of watching setters indoor and beach. I will share a bias that I know to be a bias. I wish setting rules would go back to what they were 20 years ago. This would make it harder for taller, less coordinated players who cannot set properly to increasingly dominate the current game. Being able to set used to be a requirement. It no longer is. Definitely don’t disagree with you on Sponcil’s setting (like others on this board here say, she really is the best at using the new rules to her advantage). I guess when I quoted that post, I wasn’t talking about the content in that post in particular but more like your last few posts on this page where you really ragged on Claes and praised Sponcil as a superhuman. I just wanted to share that I think Sponcil is great but definitely has a ton to improve on, no doubt that she can get there but I don’t think it’s fair to discredit Claes steady(slow) growth every year.
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Post by dunninla3 on Dec 3, 2021 22:01:43 GMT -5
^ yeah, that's fair.
Every athlete is really a combination of physical attributes (coordination, size, strength, speed) and mental attributes (focus, emotional control, problem solving ability, competitiveness).
I find Sponcil to be among the best to have ever played Beach in every category other than emotional control and problem solving. Those will take time... or may never come, hard to say, which is why I wish she would pick up a veteran professiolnal like KWJ or April (who is already taken) to help her develop in those areas.
One of the pleasures we have in discussing players on these forums is to appreciate the talent we already see, and speculate about the development the next few years will bring.
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Post by guest2 on Dec 3, 2021 23:48:06 GMT -5
^ yeah, that's fair. Every athlete is really a combination of physical attributes (coordination, size, strength, speed) and mental attributes (focus, emotional control, problem solving ability, competitiveness). I find Sponcil to be among the best to have ever played Beach in every category other than emotional control and problem solving. Those will take time... or may never come, hard to say, which is why I wish she would pick up a veteran professiolnal like KWJ or April (who is already taken) to help her develop in those areas. One of the pleasures we have in discussing players on these forums is to appreciate the talent we already see, and speculate about the development the next few years will bring. Sponcil is not close to the best who have ever played, or even the best playing now, at putting the ball away, possibly the most important skill. Same in size and strength. Sponcil does not have exceptional size in any respect. Compare Sponcil to a player like Laura and she just isn't the athlete Laura is. What does Sarah do physically better than Laura at her peak? Same with Duda and April, both hit the ball so much harder than Sarah does, although Sarah has some advantages over April, namely speed and possibly marginal advantages in some categories over Duda. Sarah is an excellent player with exceptional potential, but physically, she isn't a specimen like Laura, Clancy, Kerri for most of her career, any of the uber tall blockers, even Kira before all the injuries.
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Post by dunninla3 on Dec 4, 2021 0:10:37 GMT -5
G2 I'm referring to defenders. But probably I shouldn't have put size into the equation b/c that is sort of self evident.
PS I wrote "among the best" so I didn't mean to imply that physically she is better than Ludwig as you wrote.
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Post by guest2 on Dec 4, 2021 0:36:28 GMT -5
G2 I'm referring to defenders. But probably I shouldn't have put size into the equation b/c that is sort of self evident. PS I wrote "among the best" so I didn't mean to imply that physically she is better than Ludwig as you wrote. The trouble is that the more you qualify, the less impressive it is. I see Sarah as not being particularly exceptional in these mental/physical categories: 1. Size - obviously, but it shouldn't be discounted. Anouk has won a full field event and taken a bronze, despite being below average at every skill other than offense (which is largely based on her size). Sarah is significantly smaller than the top 3 defenders in the world (April, Duda, and Laura) 2. Armswing - This is much more important in the women's game than people realize. If April and Duda had Kerri or Day or MHP's velocity on swings and jump serves would they still be as successful? Doubtful. 3. Focus - Not sure how you can put Sarah anywhere near elite in focus when she has been as up and down and inconsistent as anyone over her pro career. Their AVP season this year, and their FIVB seasons prior to this one, were indicative of players that were struggling to maintain focus. (You mention emotional control separately from focus but I see it as a component part and, again, not sure how you can say Sarah is elite in that area, when we have so much evidence she is not) 4. Jump - She has a good jump, but nothing all time greatish. She isn't a Brandie or a Laura for example
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Post by newbeach on Dec 4, 2021 10:07:21 GMT -5
G2 I'm referring to defenders. But probably I shouldn't have put size into the equation b/c that is sort of self evident. PS I wrote "among the best" so I didn't mean to imply that physically she is better than Ludwig as you wrote. The trouble is that the more you qualify, the less impressive it is. I see Sarah as not being particularly exceptional in these mental/physical categories: 1. Size - obviously, but it shouldn't be discounted. Anouk has won a full field event and taken a bronze, despite being below average at every skill other than offense (which is largely based on her size). Sarah is significantly smaller than the top 3 defenders in the world (April, Duda, and Laura) 2. Armswing - This is much more important in the women's game than people realize. If April and Duda had Kerri or Day or MHP's velocity on swings and jump serves would they still be as successful? Doubtful. 3. Focus - Not sure how you can put Sarah anywhere near elite in focus when she has been as up and down and inconsistent as anyone over her pro career. Their AVP season this year, and their FIVB seasons prior to this one, were indicative of players that were struggling to maintain focus. (You mention emotional control separately from focus but I see it as a component part and, again, not sure how you can say Sarah is elite in that area, when we have so much evidence she is not) 4. Jump - She has a good jump, but nothing all time greatish. She isn't a Brandie or a Laura for example So, with these deficiencies, in what way is Sarah an “excellent player” (aside from her deep dish setting)?
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Post by guest2 on Dec 4, 2021 12:44:44 GMT -5
The trouble is that the more you qualify, the less impressive it is. I see Sarah as not being particularly exceptional in these mental/physical categories: 1. Size - obviously, but it shouldn't be discounted. Anouk has won a full field event and taken a bronze, despite being below average at every skill other than offense (which is largely based on her size). Sarah is significantly smaller than the top 3 defenders in the world (April, Duda, and Laura) 2. Armswing - This is much more important in the women's game than people realize. If April and Duda had Kerri or Day or MHP's velocity on swings and jump serves would they still be as successful? Doubtful. 3. Focus - Not sure how you can put Sarah anywhere near elite in focus when she has been as up and down and inconsistent as anyone over her pro career. Their AVP season this year, and their FIVB seasons prior to this one, were indicative of players that were struggling to maintain focus. (You mention emotional control separately from focus but I see it as a component part and, again, not sure how you can say Sarah is elite in that area, when we have so much evidence she is not) 4. Jump - She has a good jump, but nothing all time greatish. She isn't a Brandie or a Laura for example So, with these deficiencies, in what way is Sarah an “excellent player” (aside from her deep dish setting)? She plays exceptional defense and is very quick. The things I listed - other than focus - aren't deficiencies, except as judged against the "among the best of all time" standard that dunninla set. Sarah has good size, a good jump, and a solid swing. She just isn't exceptional in the all time sense in any of those categories.
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