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Post by huskergeek on Sept 28, 2021 7:40:04 GMT -5
When ncaa went to rpi as a selection tool and the way they treat d2 on your schedule: all conferences that i am aware of told there coaches no D2 or NAIA: not only bad for tour rpi but also effects orher schools in your conference. And if you play a Canadian university they will count it as a D2 contest on your RPI! Why schedule a D2 ? Loosing would effect rpi, recruiting, etc etc. D1 used to play d2 d3 and naia! Eventually all the crossover went away! No ncaa rule conference scheduling guidelines Well, OK, but you are not saying it is a rule? Just something most teams don't do? There used to be a fair number of teams in the really low D1 conferences that would play crossovers with D2 and NAIA teams. I mean, none of these teams are expecting to be at-larges in the tournament anyway, so what do they care about RPI? It's not a rule at the moment anyway, and there have been games between D1 and both D2 and D3 this season. Significantly fewer than normal, but that might still be an affect of COVID and return to normal in the coming years.
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Post by beesknees on Sept 28, 2021 8:15:38 GMT -5
Last year was Tarleton State's and Bellarmine's (KY) first year moving from D2-D1. Tarleton beat TCU twice and Bellarmine made their conference tournament. The Top 25 D2 teams would finish around 50-125 in D1 if you planted them there.
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Sept 28, 2021 8:55:47 GMT -5
At the Cedarville Spring Tourney a few years back, Wright State (middling mid major), Wheeling Jesuit (D2 NC) and Wittenberg (D3 runner up) were all around the same level. The scrimmages went down to the wire. 2 point wins, extra frames, the works.
Not a perfect gauge with the nature of spring ball (no seniors, no freshmen) but a decent metric nonetheless.
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Post by BuckysHeat on Sept 28, 2021 8:59:48 GMT -5
1) Yes, D1 schools play D2 schools 2) Yes, pablo ranks d2. 3) pablo composite rankings are not current, but 4) in 2019, the highest-ranked D2 school was after 86 D1 schools in the combined ranking. Think "Oregon State" or "Yale" as D1 comparibles. D1 does not play D2 or 3 anymore. Not true, Alcorn State has played Tougaloo and Dillard this year
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D2 vs D1
Sept 28, 2021 9:10:40 GMT -5
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Post by dodger on Sept 28, 2021 9:10:40 GMT -5
D1 does not play D2 or 3 anymore. Not true, Alcorn State has played Tougaloo and Dillard this year Those are 2 NAIA to be completely clear
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Post by karellen on Sept 28, 2021 9:26:36 GMT -5
Depends on what you mean by "compete".
It also depends on what conference. Big? forget about it. SWAC? trophy please...
Can some of the top DII programs compete (finish middle of the pack) in a good number of conferences? Sure. Can they win a league title in many of those same conferences? No.
There is still a difference between the levels, regardless of how good the DII team is.
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Post by BuckysHeat on Sept 28, 2021 9:49:13 GMT -5
Not true, Alcorn State has played Tougaloo and Dillard this year Those are 2 NAIA to be completely clear Thanks, thought they were D2. The Alcorns lost both matches vs Dillard.
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Post by txvbcoach on Sept 28, 2021 11:42:27 GMT -5
TAMU Commerce just announced their move to D1.
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Post by coahc21 on Sept 28, 2021 12:08:37 GMT -5
D1 > D2 > D3 is not accurate from a competitive standpoint....broad strokes purposes, yes, but each division has a range of competitiveness. A big misconception is that D1 and D2 = scholarships....untrue....Most programs are not fully funded, which means that, yes, they do have money available for athletic scholarships, whereas D3 has none, but very few full rides, or no full rides and that money is spread over partial scholarships. Often at the D2 level, the athletic scholarships might only cover the cost of books. There are far more unscholarshipped athletes at D1 and D2 than those getting full rides. Please correct me if I am wrong here, I know some stuff has changed recently.
D1 programs are often larger, have better facilities, and D1 NCAA guidelines allow more time spent on their sport, so it does still attract top athletes regardless of scholarship, not to mention the cache of saying "I'm a D1 athlete"
Johns Hopkins is the defending D3 natty champ...Not saying they would win the Big Ten, but I would guess they would be highly competitive in some D1 conferences. I know several D3 schools that compete against D1s and D2s frequently in exhibitions and do very well.
St. Thomas just made the jump from D3 to D1 and are going through some "growing pains" let's call them.
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D2 vs D1
Sept 28, 2021 14:30:14 GMT -5
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Post by dodger on Sept 28, 2021 14:30:14 GMT -5
D1 > D2 > D3 is not accurate from a competitive standpoint....broad strokes purposes, yes, but each division has a range of competitiveness. A big misconception is that D1 and D2 = scholarships....untrue....Most programs are not fully funded, which means that, yes, they do have money available for athletic scholarships, whereas D3 has none, but very few full rides, or no full rides and that money is spread over partial scholarships. Often at the D2 level, the athletic scholarships might only cover the cost of books. There are far more unscholarshipped athletes at D1 and D2 than those getting full rides. Please correct me if I am wrong here, I know some stuff has changed recently. D1 programs are often larger, have better facilities, and D1 NCAA guidelines allow more time spent on their sport, so it does still attract top athletes regardless of scholarship, not to mention the cache of saying "I'm a D1 athlete" Johns Hopkins is the defending D3 natty champ...Not saying they would win the Big Ten, but I would guess they would be highly competitive in some D1 conferences. I know several D3 schools that compete against D1s and D2s frequently in exhibitions and do very well. St. Thomas just made the jump from D3 to D1 and are going through some "growing pains" let's call them. What is “most” (51%)of D1: 341 D1 volleyball: head count: money awarded counts as 1 scholarship: 12 scholarships: most (51%) do give a full scholarship (tuition, fee’s, room-board, and cost of attendance). The Ivy league D1: 8 schools: no athletic scholarships: they choose to compete D1 yet fund scholarships same as D3. Most of D2: (51%): 291 D2 volleyball : equivalency sport: meaning that you can divide a full scholarship up and award as many players money as you choose as long as total of the percentages does not exceed 8 full scholarships. This is done in dollars: each school must calculate total dollars a full scholarship and coach the divides dollars up to each player. This is often were we create misunderstanding. If i give each player 75% i can give 10 players 75% of a full: which in most cases gives:tuition, fees, and an amount for room, board and cost if attendance that keeps scholarship at 75%. But many call a “full” because they get; tuition, fess, room and board. But room/board/cost of attendance is reduced so they can accommodate the equivalency (8) total. All of D3: 431 schools do VB: no scholarships for athletics: all moneys are academic/need based. NAIA: 224 schools do VB : 8 scholarships: equivalency sport: see D2 above. NJCAA: Div1 : 86 vb schools: 14 scholarships and can pay transportation to and from school once per academic year. Div 2: 141 vb schools: 14 scholarships : no transportation Div 3: 93 vb schools: no scholarships CCCAA; 87 vb schools in California Comm. College Athletic Association: they do not participate with NJCAA: they run there own championship: no athletic only academic scholarships. NCCAA: national collegiate christian athletic association: two divisions Div 1, 29 vb schools and div 2, 24 vb schools. Not completely up to speed on scholarships but they so have but unsure of policies for same! In conclusion: most colleges are “fully funded” because of title IX, if they fund their men then they have to fund their women! And fully funded you can see a small outline of what that is above.
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Post by mikegarrison on Sept 28, 2021 14:55:56 GMT -5
Johns Hopkins is the defending D3 natty champ...Not saying they would win the Big Ten, but I would guess they would be highly competitive in some D1 conferences. By pablo, Johns Hopkins in 2019 was about a good as D1 schools Fordham, IUPUI, Duquesne, and Hartford. That is to say, about 200 of the 335 D1 teams were better than the D3 national champion.
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D2 vs D1
Sept 28, 2021 17:38:07 GMT -5
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Post by dodger on Sept 28, 2021 17:38:07 GMT -5
Johns Hopkins is the defending D3 natty champ...Not saying they would win the Big Ten, but I would guess they would be highly competitive in some D1 conferences. By pablo, Johns Hopkins in 2019 was about a good as D1 schools Fordham, IUPUI, Duquesne, and Hartford. That is to say, about 200 of the 335 D1 teams were better than the D3 national champion. How does pablo compare D1 and D3?
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Post by mikegarrison on Sept 28, 2021 17:56:44 GMT -5
By pablo, Johns Hopkins in 2019 was about a good as D1 schools Fordham, IUPUI, Duquesne, and Hartford. That is to say, about 200 of the 335 D1 teams were better than the D3 national champion. How does pablo compare D1 and D3? The same way pablo rates D1 teams against each other even if they don't directly have any common opponents. It looks at all the matches, so with enough data you can find that team A is say 10% better than team B, team B is about as good as team C, team D is 10% worse than team C, team E can be related to teams B and D, team F had a match with team E, etc. So it does it by looking at the matches between divisions. Which *do* still happen. Some D1 teams play a few D2 or NAIA teams. Some NAIA teams play some D2 or D3 teams. Etc. It's not a perfect calibration, but it's enough to get some read on it.
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D2 vs D1
Sept 28, 2021 23:40:51 GMT -5
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Post by dodger on Sept 28, 2021 23:40:51 GMT -5
How does pablo compare D1 and D3? The same way pablo rates D1 teams against each other even if they don't directly have any common opponents. It looks at all the matches, so with enough data you can find that team A is say 10% better than team B, team B is about as good as team C, team D is 10% worse than team C, team E can be related to teams B and D, team F had a match with team E, etc. So it does it by looking at the matches between divisions. Which *do* still happen. Some D1 teams play a few D2 or NAIA teams. Some NAIA teams play some D2 or D3 teams. Etc. It's not a perfect calibration, but it's enough to get some read on it. There cant be enough data to make a reliable probability ranking? Can there? Would pablo have an answer
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D2 vs D1
Sept 29, 2021 6:02:46 GMT -5
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Post by justahick on Sept 29, 2021 6:02:46 GMT -5
How does pablo compare D1 and D3? The same way pablo rates D1 teams against each other even if they don't directly have any common opponents. It looks at all the matches, so with enough data you can find that team A is say 10% better than team B, team B is about as good as team C, team D is 10% worse than team C, team E can be related to teams B and D, team F had a match with team E, etc. So it does it by looking at the matches between divisions. Which *do* still happen. Some D1 teams play a few D2 or NAIA teams. Some NAIA teams play some D2 or D3 teams. Etc. It's not a perfect calibration, but it's enough to get some read on it. Pablo is accurate inside d1 because there are lots of crossover matches between conferences. The numbers between levels are arbitrary. At some point there was a decision that assigned an average value to each level and that value normalizes each division. There is zero accuracy between levels because there is no crossover matches in the pablo calculation
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