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Post by bbg95 on Aug 8, 2023 10:28:31 GMT -5
Expands into California. Great academic brands. I don't know. Maybe it's not worth it, but I don't think it would be the worst move this round. I think if those schools had real value to a serious conference they'd have been invited to one of the other conferences. Moving last and picking up the leftovers seems like a very ACC move. I guess. If the Big Ten or Big 12 added them, I think it would be a bad move. But the ACC, especially if it's a partial share...I don't hate it. |
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Post by horns1 on Aug 8, 2023 10:36:17 GMT -5
I have not heard him speak before, and I don't know his background. But, he starts by comparing conference realignment (timeline) to the transfer portal deadline and being closed; he says it appears adults can do whatever they want. Guess he doesn't know that conference realignment changes typically provide 1-2 years advance notice; the transfer portal does not. And, most of us have compared the transfer portal and student-athletes moving around to coaching changes. Someone should have asked him his opinion on coaches leaving one job for another with pretty much zero advance notice mainly for a higher salary. Are you really arguing that the impact of realignment is less because it takes one or two seasons to take effect instead of between seasons? I'm not seeing your point. Yes, coaching changes are often mentioned in conjunction with the portal, and while coaches suddenly leaving is usually to move up to a bigger better paying job, he is completely correct that neither when coaches pursue more money nor when the Universities pursue more money through realignment does anybody give a thought to the impact on the athletes or in sharing some of that windfall with the athletes. I'm not arguing. He comes across as a hypocrite. He talks about those recruits who choose a particular school so their parents have an easier time attending their games. What about those recruits who pick a school based on a coach who bolts abruptly? At least with realignment, the timeline allows a student-athlete plenty of time to consider their options and transfer out if realignment has affected them directly. |
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 8, 2023 10:36:35 GMT -5
If I were to rank the P5 moves this round, it would be:
1. SEC adds Oklahoma and Texas
2. Big Ten adds USC and UCLA
3. Big 12 adds BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF (this stabilized the conference)
4. Big 12 adds Colorado
<Big Gap>
5. Big Ten adds Oregon and Washington
5a. Big 12 adds Arizona, Arizona State and Utah (this would be above the gap if it was just Arizona)
DFL: everything the Pac-12 did
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Post by slxpress on Aug 8, 2023 10:48:38 GMT -5
I don't understand. What was the NCAA supposed to do? I'm assuming Jordan Acker as an attorney and Michigan regent has heard of this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_OklahomaHow in the world is the NCAA supposed to police what conferences schools choose to affiliate with? I understand the anger, but the target feels completely misplaced. If anything, crying to congress is exactly what the NCAA should be doing, because they have no power. If he's complaining about the Jim Harbaugh violations - which it feels like he is - that's all the toothless NCAA can go after now. They have been defanged at every turn. Give the NCAA some real teeth, like they used to have under Walter Byers, and watch the real complaints begin. If the NCAA had the power to dictate which conferences schools remain in, it would be the end of the NCAA. Full stop. Personally, I'm disappointed in this twitter (X?) thread. I'm assuming he's a smart man, but this thread is not evidence of it. I don't see any evidence that he's complaining about the Harbaugh violations. He probably is unhappy with the sanctions (just a guess), but that really was not the point of his post. It wasn’t the point of my post, either, so there you go. |
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Post by NYCHusker on Aug 8, 2023 10:52:50 GMT -5
I think if those schools had real value to a serious conference they'd have been invited to one of the other conferences. Moving last and picking up the leftovers seems like a very ACC move. I guess. If the Big Ten or Big 12 added them, I think it would be a bad move. But the ACC, especially if it's a partial share...I don't hate it. I don't see it happening. Florida State and Clemson (especially FSU) are doing too much barking right now about how the current ACC sucks for them. These additions wouldn't add enough value to make life for the rest of the ACC better, so I don't think it would get approval if put up for a vote. |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 8, 2023 11:02:41 GMT -5
I don't understand. What was the NCAA supposed to do? I'm assuming Jordan Acker as an attorney and Michigan regent has heard of this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_v._Board_of_Regents_of_the_University_of_OklahomaHow in the world is the NCAA supposed to police what conferences schools choose to affiliate with? I understand the anger, but the target feels completely misplaced. If anything, crying to congress is exactly what the NCAA should be doing, because they have no power. If he's complaining about the Jim Harbaugh violations - which it feels like he is - that's all the toothless NCAA can go after now. They have been defanged at every turn. Give the NCAA some real teeth, like they used to have under Walter Byers, and watch the real complaints begin. If the NCAA had the power to dictate which conferences schools remain in, it would be the end of the NCAA. Full stop. Personally, I'm disappointed in this twitter (X?) thread. I'm assuming he's a smart man, but this thread is not evidence of it. The NCAA has been made powerless when it comes to Conference affiliation. I'm not a lawyer but it seems clear that any attempt to halt the consolidation that has occurred the last 30 years or so would have been met lawsuits. Lawsuits that they would have probably lost based on Anti-trust law. I place blame on the college presidents and boards who were unwilling to resist network interference in college sports. Link to other lawsuits limiting the NCAAI’m with you. It’s an absurd position. |
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Post by bluepenquin on Aug 8, 2023 11:51:42 GMT -5
Interesting response from Missouri football coach. He makes some very good points Drinkwitz has never been shy about giving his opinion. And given how long this was on a question given to him - he clearly was thinking about this and wanted it said. However - the university he now represents made a decision to join the SEC at the exact same cost he is complaining about here. Missouri player travel is certainly more than what it was in the B12. Maybe he should direct these issues he has with his current employer. Also - his salary wouldn't have been as high had Missouri not moved to the SEC to get more money for the athletic department. He financially gained from what he is railing against (which in some ways may give it more merit?). And he is greatly overstating the impact on 'mental health'. I am not down or against what he said - or that he is making good points. Just a curious source to be making these points. |
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Post by n00b on Aug 8, 2023 11:56:10 GMT -5
I don't really see what's in it for the ACC to add Stanford/Cal. Just grabbing schools to grab schools? The only upside I see is that there are clearly schools that both want to bail and are wanted by the Big Ten/SEC. When that happens in 2036, having enough schools as members in that aftermath will be a positive. Otherwise they'll be stuck adding schools like East Carolina and South Florida. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Aug 8, 2023 12:14:23 GMT -5
Interesting response from Missouri football coach. He makes some very good points Drinkwitz has never been shy about giving his opinion. And given how long this was on a question given to him - he clearly was thinking about this and wanted it said. However - the university he now represents made a decision to join the SEC at the exact same cost he is complaining about here. Missouri player travel is certainly more than what it was in the B12. Maybe he should direct these issues he has with his current employer. Also - his salary wouldn't have been as high had Missouri not moved to the SEC to get more money for the athletic department. He financially gained from what he is railing against (which in some ways may give it more merit?). And he is greatly overstating the impact on 'mental health'. I am not down or against what he said - or that he is making good points. Just a curious source to be making these points. There is definitely more than a little self-serving to go around. At least I like this better than Dabo Swinney getting paid $115 million while passionately stating “As far as paying players, professionalizing college athletics, that’s where you lose me. I’ll go do something else because there’s enough entitlement in this world as there is.” |
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Post by oldnewbie on Aug 8, 2023 12:21:39 GMT -5
Are you really arguing that the impact of realignment is less because it takes one or two seasons to take effect instead of between seasons? I'm not seeing your point. Yes, coaching changes are often mentioned in conjunction with the portal, and while coaches suddenly leaving is usually to move up to a bigger better paying job, he is completely correct that neither when coaches pursue more money nor when the Universities pursue more money through realignment does anybody give a thought to the impact on the athletes or in sharing some of that windfall with the athletes. I'm not arguing. He comes across as a hypocrite. He talks about those recruits who choose a particular school so their parents have an easier time attending their games. What about those recruits who pick a school based on a coach who bolts abruptly? At least with realignment, the timeline allows a student-athlete plenty of time to consider their options and transfer out if realignment has affected them directly. I agree. I think most everybody involved in college sports is a self-interested hypocrite. I at least like someone standing up and giving voice to how much time they make these athletes spend at their "hobby", and how little time it leaves to actually take advantage of the free benefit that everyone claims makes it worth it for them to be there in the first place, and how detrimental their time, travel and emotional stresses are to their overall mental health. There are Covid freshmen who were burned out and transferred to be closer to home, who now end up on long flights to go right back to where they left. That was not part of the plan. |
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Post by lionsfan on Aug 8, 2023 12:25:07 GMT -5
If I were to rank the P5 moves this round, it would be: 1. SEC adds Oklahoma and Texas 2. Big Ten adds USC and UCLA 3. Big 12 adds BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF (this stabilized the conference) 4. Big 12 adds Colorado <Big Gap> 5. Big Ten adds Oregon and Washington 5a. Big 12 adds Arizona, Arizona State and Utah (this would be above the gap if it was just Arizona) DFL: everything the Pac-12 did I dunno, I'm pretty jazzed about Oregon and Washington. Good market adds...great brands...lock up the West Coast...great volleyball and football programs (gonna be some great late-night football games and atmospheres)...Nike...Hayward Field...cute mascots...sounds pretty amazing all around |
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 8, 2023 12:27:00 GMT -5
If I were to rank the P5 moves this round, it would be: 1. SEC adds Oklahoma and Texas 2. Big Ten adds USC and UCLA 3. Big 12 adds BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF (this stabilized the conference) 4. Big 12 adds Colorado <Big Gap> 5. Big Ten adds Oregon and Washington 5a. Big 12 adds Arizona, Arizona State and Utah (this would be above the gap if it was just Arizona) DFL: everything the Pac-12 did I dunno, I'm pretty jazzed about Oregon and Washington. Good market adds...great brands...lock up the West Coast...great volleyball and football programs (gonna be some great late-night football games and atmospheres)...Nike...Hayward Field...cute mascots...sounds pretty amazing all around Be jazzed if you want. I don't think it's a good move. Lower value brands that will eventually demand a full share. Worse travel situation for the existing 14 schools. And the Big Ten almost certainly pissed off USC (they dislike Oregon), who doesn't exactly strike me as the most loyal school possible. |
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Post by redbeard2008 on Aug 8, 2023 12:31:46 GMT -5
I think if those schools had real value to a serious conference they'd have been invited to one of the other conferences. Moving last and picking up the leftovers seems like a very ACC move. I guess. If the Big Ten or Big 12 added them, I think it would be a bad move. But the ACC, especially if it's a partial share...I don't hate it. And the ACC's media deal is crap. From what I can tell, in order to be recognized by the NCAA, the Pac has to have at least seven active Div 1 members, but "six members must sponsor five men's sports other than basketball, including either football or two other team sports." So, a Pac-7 or Pac-6 for football (plus one school for non-football sports) could be a possibility, as a stop-gap until the MWC's media deal runs out (after 2024-25?), allowing more schools to join without a buy-out ($16.5m with two-years notice, but $32m with one-year or less). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_conferences mwwire.com/2022/07/21/mountain-west-schools-could-pay-a-buyout-of-up-to-33-million/ |
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 8, 2023 12:36:26 GMT -5
I dunno, I'm pretty jazzed about Oregon and Washington. Good market adds...great brands...lock up the West Coast...great volleyball and football programs (gonna be some great late-night football games and atmospheres)...Nike...Hayward Field...cute mascots...sounds pretty amazing all around Be jazzed if you want. I don't think it's a good move. Lower value brands that will eventually demand a full share. Worse travel situation for the existing 14 schools. And the Big Ten almost certainly pissed off USC (they dislike Oregon), who doesn't exactly strike me as the most loyal school possible. If I were to grade the P5 conferences on their moves, it would be like so: SEC: A+ Big 10: B+ (would have been an A+ if they just stopped with USC and UCLA) Big 12: B (would have been an A if they didn't add Arizona State and Utah) ACC: Incomplete Pac-12: F I think the SEC has to be thrilled with everything that's happened. They added two great brands, which will help them continue their football dominance. Meanwhile the Big 10 and Big 12 overexpanded, the ACC is trapped in a terrible TV contract, and the Pac-12 is dead. I fully expect that when the ACC breaks up, the SEC will add great football brands like Florida State, Miami and Clemson, while the Big Ten will counter with like Virginia, North Carolina and Duke. Edit: I obviously don't expect Big Ten fans to agree with me on this, but I stand by my statements. |
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Post by n00b on Aug 8, 2023 12:48:26 GMT -5
I'm not arguing. He comes across as a hypocrite. He talks about those recruits who choose a particular school so their parents have an easier time attending their games. What about those recruits who pick a school based on a coach who bolts abruptly? At least with realignment, the timeline allows a student-athlete plenty of time to consider their options and transfer out if realignment has affected them directly. I agree. I think most everybody involved in college sports is a self-interested hypocrite. I at least like someone standing up and giving voice to how much time they make these athletes spend at their "hobby", and how little time it leaves to actually take advantage of the free benefit that everyone claims makes it worth it for them to be there in the first place, and how detrimental their time, travel and emotional stresses are to their overall mental health. There are Covid freshmen who were burned out and transferred to be closer to home, who now end up on long flights to go right back to where they left. That was not part of the plan. Oh good grief. There are 340 Division 1 schools that offer volleyball. An athlete that is good enough to play in the Big Ten or SEC is talented enough to play in at least 300 of them. If somebody wants to treat volleyball as a “hobby” they can do so in a regional conference with limited travel. They could even play D3 so there are fewer time demands in the spring. The thing is, a lot of athletes WANT more volleyball. But if it’s as terrible as you’re making it out to be, they should play in a different conference. |
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