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Post by n00b on Oct 19, 2021 9:02:56 GMT -5
We have covered this ground a million times now, but Hawaii would be really marginal as a PAC school. All the other schools are bigger except Stanford. All the other schools have a "travel partner" (although Utah and Colorado kind of push that). The least "researchy" schools in the PAC are Oregon and WSU, and Hawaii falls in with them in that regard. It would have the smallest endowment of all the PAC schools by a large gap. It's just not a good fit. Hawaii fits MUCH better with the smaller schools in the Big West. It's not at all clear why the PAC would want to take Hawaii. And it's also not clear that it would be a good move for Hawaii to try to spend the money to compete in the PAC. They don't have the economic base. Just look at how Rutgers is struggling in the Big Ten. Rutgers was super-excited to join the Big Ten, but now they are running a massive debt. www.northjersey.com/story/news/2021/09/15/rutgers-athletics-debt-investigation-takeaways-report-big-ten/8324221002/“Not a good fit” is the kind of BS line university presidents come up with when they don’t want to do something. Never believe a word they say about fit or academics or culture or anything else. College presidents are whores who will do anything for money. That’s their job. Fundraise. You’re probably right that financially it wouldn’t benefit the PAC or Hawaii, so that’s why it won’t happen. Not because of “fit.” You think Pac-12 presidents should make decisions that is a financial negative on their universities so Hawaii could get a financial boost? Presidents that don't care about the finances of their university will see their schools go bankrupt. |
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Post by knapplc on Oct 19, 2021 9:51:17 GMT -5
Would the pac or WCC ever invite Hawaii? If the Big Ten was smart they'd drop Rutgers & invite Hawaii. Get a warm-weather game for your teams in a lovely locale during those cold winter months. Yeah, the flights there would be a grind, but it'd be a small price to pay. |
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 19, 2021 10:56:30 GMT -5
Would the pac or WCC ever invite Hawaii? If the Big 12, after being robbed by the SEC, looks to expand further, after adding BYU, Houston, Cincinnati, and UCF, by robbing Utah and Colorado from the Pac-12, then I could see the Pac turning to invite Hawaii, if only to bolster recruiting (with yearly trips to the Isles). Perhaps they also add Boise State, but only if they get rid of that godawful blue field. Beggars can't be choosers. |
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Post by stevehorn on Oct 19, 2021 11:35:38 GMT -5
Would the pac or WCC ever invite Hawaii? If the Big 12, after being robbed by the SEC, looks to expand further, after adding BYU, Houston, Cincinnati, and UCF, by robbing Utah and Colorado from the Pac-12, then I could see the Pac turning to invite Hawaii, if only to bolster recruiting (with yearly trips to the Isles). Perhaps they also add Boise State, but only if they get rid of that godawful blue field. Beggars can't be choosers. So you're saying the Pac12 doesn't like making money. |
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Post by mervinswerved on Oct 19, 2021 11:36:43 GMT -5
I thought we were assured Kansas would be the first school to get poached by the Pac 12.
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Post by stevehorn on Oct 19, 2021 11:47:38 GMT -5
I thought we were assured Kansas would be the first school to get poached by the Pac 12. No, it was the Big 10 for Kansas. |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 19, 2021 11:52:09 GMT -5
What’s your definition of “thematic fit” that makes Hawaii not a good fit for the PAC? We have covered this ground a million times now, but Hawaii would be really marginal as a PAC school. All the other schools are bigger except Stanford. All the other schools have a "travel partner" (although Utah and Colorado kind of push that). The least "researchy" schools in the PAC are Oregon and WSU, and Hawaii falls in with them in that regard. It would have the smallest endowment of all the PAC schools by a large gap. It's just not a good fit. Hawaii fits MUCH better with the smaller schools in the Big West. It's not at all clear why the PAC would want to take Hawaii. And it's also not clear that it would be a good move for Hawaii to try to spend the money to compete in the PAC. They don't have the economic base. Just look at how Rutgers is struggling in the Big Ten. Rutgers was super-excited to join the Big Ten, but now they are running a massive debt. www.northjersey.com/story/news/2021/09/15/rutgers-athletics-debt-investigation-takeaways-report-big-ten/8324221002/Hawaii's academic ranking would also be quite low for the Pac-12. And more importantly, its football program doesn't move the needle. At this point, it doesn't make sense for a conference to accept a new member unless it will increase the per-school payout for the TV contract after accounting for the additional share. There aren't many schools that fit that description (Texas and Oklahoma did for the SEC, so that's why they were accepted). |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 19, 2021 11:55:31 GMT -5
Would the pac or WCC ever invite Hawaii? If the Big Ten was smart they'd drop Rutgers & invite Hawaii. Get a warm-weather game for your teams in a lovely locale during those cold winter months. Yeah, the flights there would be a grind, but it'd be a small price to pay. That makes even less sense than Hawaii to the Pac-12 or WCC. If the Big Ten wants a warm weather school, they should try to poach USC. |
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 19, 2021 12:36:19 GMT -5
If the Big 12, after being robbed by the SEC, looks to expand further, after adding BYU, Houston, Cincinnati, and UCF, by robbing Utah and Colorado from the Pac-12, then I could see the Pac turning to invite Hawaii, if only to bolster recruiting (with yearly trips to the Isles). Perhaps they also add Boise State, but only if they get rid of that godawful blue field. Beggars can't be choosers. So you're saying the Pac12 doesn't like making money. How much money is the Pac-12 making? That P12Net is underperforming could make them vulnerable to being poached. Will the Big 12 make a run at Utah to complement BYU? |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 19, 2021 12:54:40 GMT -5
So you're saying the Pac12 doesn't like making money. How much money is the Pac-12 making? That P12Net is underperforming could make them vulnerable to being poached. Will the Big 12 make a run at Utah to complement BYU? I don't see anyone leaving the Pac-12 as long as USC stays put. If the Trojans were to depart, then all bets are off. |
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Post by n00b on Oct 19, 2021 12:55:19 GMT -5
So you're saying the Pac12 doesn't like making money. How much money is the Pac-12 making? That P12Net is underperforming could make them vulnerable to being poached. Will the Big 12 make a run at Utah to complement BYU? There is absolutely no way that a Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is going to make as much as the Pac 12. And from a prestige and recruiting perspective, would you rather play road games in Manhattan or Seattle? Ames or Los Angeles? Morgantown or San Francisco? (And not THAT Manhattan) The Pac-12 is falling further and further behind the SEC, Big Ten and even ACC, but they are firmly ahead of the new Big 12. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 19, 2021 13:09:24 GMT -5
from a prestige and recruiting perspective, would you rather play road games in Manhattan or Seattle? Ames or Los Angeles? Morgantown or San Francisco? (And not THAT Manhattan) It's pretty clear that the NCAA would rather play volleyball in the Midwest. Kansas City San Antonio Louisville Seattle Oklahoma City Omaha Columbus Kansas City Minneapolis Pittsburgh Omaha Columbus Omaha Tampa Louisville Kansas City If not for Seattle and Tampa, basically the "National Championship Tournament" should be renamed the "Midwest Invitational". I guess maybe San Antonio doesn't count as Midwest. But the point remains. |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 19, 2021 13:24:44 GMT -5
How much money is the Pac-12 making? That P12Net is underperforming could make them vulnerable to being poached. Will the Big 12 make a run at Utah to complement BYU? There is absolutely no way that a Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is going to make as much as the Pac 12. And from a prestige and recruiting perspective, would you rather play road games in Manhattan or Seattle? Ames or Los Angeles? Morgantown or San Francisco? (And not THAT Manhattan) The Pac-12 is falling further and further behind the SEC, Big Ten and even ACC, but they are firmly ahead of the new Big 12. This is true (well, in terms of TV money it's probably true--in terms of on-field product, it's debatable if the Pac-12 will be better than the new Big 12) as long as USC decides that it's okay with making less money than their fellow blue bloods. We'll know within a few years if that's the case. If USC leaves (and Oregon too, most likely), though, then I think the new Big 12 would definitely be ahead of what's left of the Pac-12. Your point about TV markets is a bit misleading because there are major brands located in Tuscaloosa, South Bend, State College, Norman, etc. A dedicated fanbase is more important than a big market. Obviously, it's ideal to have both the way that USC does (well, at least when USC is a contender), but for football, I'd much rather be Alabama than Cal. |
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Post by raian13 on Oct 19, 2021 13:30:09 GMT -5
BYU is going to Big 12? Any link to this announcement?
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 19, 2021 13:32:30 GMT -5
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