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Post by stevehorn on Oct 21, 2021 12:06:29 GMT -5
Those teams were added as football only. does not create the scheduling issue since they do not play everyone in conference anyway. Creating a balanced schedule in other sports with an odd team is not ideal. Your arguments are sound for general conference expansion theory, but they don't allign very well with the MAC. Marshall was a 13th member for all sports, not just football. While the other two were indeed football only members, the scheduling for football was a nightmare. There was always at least one East division match up that would get nixed every year in order to make it all work, which means that you could wind up with divisional co-champs with no H-H match up. Yet they stuck it out with 13 teams anyway. Now they did try to add a 14th team from time to time. UCF joined briefly in the Marshall days, but they both left for CUSA simultaneously. Then UMass was initially supposed to be a travel partner for Temple, but then Temple was gone by the time UMass joined. But nevertheless Marshall is the best Football team that the MAC has ever had, and they don't seem to be all that adverse to having 13 teams. So none of the regular conference expansion logic really applies here. Except you're ignoring the most likely logical explanation - $$$$. Marshall likely left the MAC for $$ and likely isn't going back at this time because of $$. It's also possible that the MAC and Marshall had conversations, but they didn't become public. |
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Oct 21, 2021 12:27:55 GMT -5
Your arguments are sound for general conference expansion theory, but they don't allign very well with the MAC. Marshall was a 13th member for all sports, not just football. While the other two were indeed football only members, the scheduling for football was a nightmare. There was always at least one East division match up that would get nixed every year in order to make it all work, which means that you could wind up with divisional co-champs with no H-H match up. Yet they stuck it out with 13 teams anyway. Now they did try to add a 14th team from time to time. UCF joined briefly in the Marshall days, but they both left for CUSA simultaneously. Then UMass was initially supposed to be a travel partner for Temple, but then Temple was gone by the time UMass joined. But nevertheless Marshall is the best Football team that the MAC has ever had, and they don't seem to be all that adverse to having 13 teams. So none of the regular conference expansion logic really applies here. Except you're ignoring the most likely logical explanation - $$$$. Marshall likely left the MAC for $$ and likely isn't going back at this time because of $$. It's also possible that the MAC and Marshall had conversations, but they didn't become public. At the time they probably did make a lot more in CUSA, as CUSA was pretty strong back then. I doubt that they would have left the MAC for the Sunbelt though, and the Sunbelt today is a lot weaker than it was back then. So if their options are a watered down Sunbelt or going back to the MAC that is just the way that they left it, I mean come on. The choice is obvious. Now obviously it didn't happen, and I suspect that the culprit is either pride on the Marshall side, or vengeance on the MAC side, or some sort of combination of the two. |
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Post by txvbcoach on Oct 21, 2021 12:29:48 GMT -5
MAC already has 6 teams in each division. Why bring Marshall back to create an odd team in a division - which creates some scheduling issues - or go through process of finding another team which either creates a division of 8 compared to 6 in the other OR creates two divisions with an odd number of teams. Another option would trying to find 3 more teams in addition to Marshall so both divisions have even number of teams. Adding Marshall to a league that has been very consistent and stable does not but create small or large headaches. The MAC is not interested in Marshall. Add there is a big difference between the Big 12 bringing back a cash cow like Texas and the MAC bringing back Marshall. The MAC had 13 teams for a long time. It was Marshall as team 13 in their hey day. After Marshall left they brought in Temple as the 13th team. When Temple left, they brought in UMass as the 13th team. Now that UMass is gone, all of a sudden it is unreasonable to bring back the original 13th team... because they would be a 13th team? Where is UMASS going? back to the A10? |
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Oct 21, 2021 12:48:14 GMT -5
Also odd is that CUSA raided the Sunbelt for M Tennessee, W Kentucky and FIU. But now they don't want them back when they are ripe for the picking?
Is there any reliable source on this proposed Sunbelt raid of CUSA? It doesn't really add up at all.
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 21, 2021 13:21:06 GMT -5
Why would Marshall go to the Sunbelt instead of going back to the MAC where they belong? The entire MAC East is a short bus ride away from Marshall's campus. From what I've seen, I think the Marshall fans are happy to going to the Sun Belt, particularly to renew their rivalry with App State. |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 21, 2021 13:23:38 GMT -5
I find that hard to believe. That would be like if Texas wanted back into the Big 12, and the Big 12 was like "nah, we're good." MAC already has 6 teams in each division. Why bring Marshall back to create an odd team in a division - which creates some scheduling issues - or go through process of finding another team which either creates a division of 8 compared to 6 in the other OR creates two divisions with an odd number of teams. Another option would trying to find 3 more teams in addition to Marshall so both divisions have even number of teams. Adding Marshall to a league that has been very consistent and stable does not but create small or large headaches. The MAC is not interested in Marshall. Add there is a big difference between the Big 12 bringing back a cash cow like Texas and the MAC bringing back Marshall. Correct. From what I can tell, the MAC is very comfortable with what it is and isn't trying to aspire to the higher levels of FBS football. |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 21, 2021 13:29:16 GMT -5
The difference being, from Day 1 in the conference, you KNOW Marshall will be positioning to get themselves out again. That is what creates the constant state of instability. (Also, Temple and UMass were football-only. That's a little different. You don't have to account for increased travel costs for Olympic sports.) Unlike Temple and UMass you don't have to worry about increased travel costs with Marshall in the MAC East because they fit nice and snug geographically into that Division. Huntington is right across the river from a state that contains 5 of the other 6 teams. I suspect that you are sort of right with the other piece of your reasoning though. If you leave you wife for another woman, then your wife isn't going to take you back just because things didn't work out with the other woman. Yeah, this is also why Louisiana Tech is kind of screwed right now. Louisiana-Lafayette and Louisiana-Monroe don't like them, so they aren't getting into the Sunbelt. New Mexico State and UTEP have similar problems with the Mountain West, with a lot of it being related to New Mexico politics. |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 21, 2021 13:33:19 GMT -5
The MAC had 13 teams for a long time. It was Marshall as team 13 in their hey day. After Marshall left they brought in Temple as the 13th team. When Temple left, they brought in UMass as the 13th team. Now that UMass is gone, all of a sudden it is unreasonable to bring back the original 13th team... because they would be a 13th team? Where is UMASS going? back to the A10? UMass is independent in football right now and one of the worst FBS teams in the country. They're in the A-10 for their other sports. |
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Post by n00b on Oct 21, 2021 14:03:11 GMT -5
Where is UMASS going? back to the A10? UMass is independent in football right now and one of the worst FBS teams in the country. They're in the A-10 for their other sports. I believe the MAC told them a while back they either needed to join as a full member or the football team had to leave. They chose to go independent for football. |
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Post by bbg95 on Oct 21, 2021 14:42:04 GMT -5
UMass is independent in football right now and one of the worst FBS teams in the country. They're in the A-10 for their other sports. I believe the MAC told them a while back they either needed to join as a full member or the football team had to leave. They chose to go independent for football. That makes sense. I believe UConn football found itself in a similar situation. As I recall, the AAC kicked UConn football out (or made it clear that they would no longer be welcome) after the Huskies moved the rest of their sports to the Big East. So UConn went independent as well. |
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Post by stevehorn on Oct 21, 2021 14:53:31 GMT -5
I believe the MAC told them a while back they either needed to join as a full member or the football team had to leave. They chose to go independent for football. That makes sense. I believe UConn football found itself in a similar situation. As I recall, the AAC kicked UConn football out (or made it clear that they would no longer be welcome) after the Huskies moved the rest of their sports to the Big East. So UConn went independent as well. Plus both programs have been plunging toward the bottom of FBS football. |
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Post by karellen on Oct 22, 2021 5:58:09 GMT -5
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Post by txvbcoach on Oct 22, 2021 8:59:42 GMT -5
Where is UMASS going? back to the A10? UMass is independent in football right now and one of the worst FBS teams in the country. They're in the A-10 for their other sports. Tell me about it. and even worse? They have no volleyball team. I'm ashamed of my alma mater. Less than 30 minutes from the volleyball hall of fame and the flagship public university in Massachusetts and they can't field a team. |
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Post by karellen on Oct 22, 2021 9:38:14 GMT -5
UMass is independent in football right now and one of the worst FBS teams in the country. They're in the A-10 for their other sports. Tell me about it. and even worse? They have no volleyball team. I'm ashamed of my alma mater. Less than 30 minutes from the volleyball hall of fame and the flagship public university in Massachusetts and they can't field a team. throw some alumni muscle around and get them to start a program -- I will coach it!! |
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Oct 22, 2021 9:47:35 GMT -5
CUSA would probably take in UMass and UConn FB at this point.
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