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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 13, 2022 22:54:59 GMT -5
I completely disagree. They were considered a one trick pony without koerber and picked to finish 7th in the Pac and were 19th in the initial AVCA poll. They actually finished 3rd in the Pac and 18th in the final AVCA poll. How exactly is that "significantly worse than expected"? He said 14 months ago (spring season ) Yeah, I just caught that and added an edit. I'm surprised that c4ndlelight is actually trying to attribute any significance to a particular teams performance in that bizarre Covid year that didn't count against anybody's eligibility. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 13, 2022 22:56:37 GMT -5
I completely disagree. They were considered a one trick pony without koerber and picked to finish 7th in the Pac and were 19th in the initial AVCA poll. They actually finished 3rd in the Pac and 18th in the final AVCA poll. How exactly is that "significantly worse than expected"? Edit: Sorry, were you talking about the bizarre Spring season and not last fall? That counts how? Because it was a season they played where they massively underperformed (hence the low expectations coming into last year). You can't claim credit for overachieving when you've set low expectations by failing. A lot of teams had uncharacteristic performances that season. Are you really judging Stanford's performance history on that season? |
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bwf3
Sophomore
Posts: 110
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Post by bwf3 on Jul 13, 2022 22:59:28 GMT -5
He said 14 months ago (spring season ) Yeah, I just caught that and added an edit. I'm surprised that c4ndlelight is actually trying to attribute any significance to a particular teams performance in that bizarre Covid year that didn't count against anybody's eligivility. Beth lost two of her three best players to the portal after that season... That was significant. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 13, 2022 22:59:39 GMT -5
I completely disagree. They were considered a one trick pony without koerber and picked to finish 7th in the Pac and were 19th in the initial AVCA poll. They actually finished 3rd in the Pac and 18th in the final AVCA poll. How exactly is that "significantly worse than expected"? Edit: Sorry, were you talking about the bizarre Spring season and not last fall? That counts how? Because it was a season they played where they massively underperformed (hence the low expectations coming into last year). You can't claim credit for overachieving when you've set low expectations by failing. If that is how you handicap, than expect to be continually surprised. |
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Post by ay2013 on Jul 13, 2022 23:00:32 GMT -5
could you give a quick rundown on why you think that? I genuinely just don’t know who’s gonna be playing other than Robinson. they’ve kinda been my biggest question mark when I try and think about how the conference will shake out Because they almost always are? It's almost like Beth knows what she is doing. Well, they've had the last 9 years with either Drews or Anea. Who on this roster is shouldering that offensive burden? If it's Robinson then I think Utah is going to be as good as I think they will - they will end the season with a losing record. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jul 13, 2022 23:00:48 GMT -5
Because it was a season they played where they massively underperformed (hence the low expectations coming into last year). You can't claim credit for overachieving when you've set low expectations by failing. A lot of teams had uncharacteristic performances that season. Are you really judging Stanford's performance history on that season? Stanford dealt with COVID restrictions and injury issues that Utah didn't. You're trying to ignore the results for convenience, while simultaneously ignoring last season's perception of overperformance off of that baseline (as well as the gross underestimation of what an upgrade Jankiewicz was over SKT). Utah was picked low in the preseason poll precisely because of how bad they looked in the Spring season. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 13, 2022 23:03:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I just caught that and added an edit. I'm surprised that c4ndlelight is actually trying to attribute any significance to a particular teams performance in that bizarre Covid year that didn't count against anybody's eligivility. Beth lost two of her three best players to the portal after that season... That was significant. Correct, and they performed very well in Fall of 2021 when taking those losses into account. That was the original point, that more often than not Beth fields a competitive team even when it is not clear how when heading into the season. I'm discounting Covid Spring of 2021 as an anomaly, whereas c4ndlelight thought it was significant. |
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Post by ay2013 on Jul 13, 2022 23:04:43 GMT -5
I completely disagree. They were considered a one trick pony without koerber and picked to finish 7th in the Pac and were 19th in the initial AVCA poll. They actually finished 3rd in the Pac and 18th in the final AVCA poll. How exactly is that "significantly worse than expected"? Edit: Sorry, were you talking about the bizarre Spring season and not last fall? That counts how? Because it was a season they played where they massively underperformed (hence the low expectations coming into last year). You can't claim credit for overachieving when you've set low expectations by failing. 2016 COY- Mick Haley would like to respectfully disagree. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 13, 2022 23:05:10 GMT -5
Because they almost always are? It's almost like Beth knows what she is doing. Well, they've had the last 9 years with either Drews or Anea. Who on this roster is shouldering that offensive burden? If it's Robinson then I think Utah is going to be as good as I think they will - they will end the season with a losing record. Well, as I stated earlier, Drews wasn't Drews and Koerber wasn't Koerber before they got to Utah. It is easy to say sure they had Drews for 5 years after the fact, but nobody was saying that before her freshman year. |
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Post by ay2013 on Jul 13, 2022 23:07:44 GMT -5
A lot of teams had uncharacteristic performances that season. Are you really judging Stanford's performance history on that season? Stanford dealt with COVID restrictions and injury issues that Utah didn't. You're trying to ignore the results for convenience, while simultaneously ignoring last season's perception of overperformance off of that baseline (as well as the gross underestimation of what an upgrade Jankiewicz was over SKT). Utah was picked low in the preseason poll precisely because of how bad they looked in the Spring season. well, to be fair, Utah only really returned Drews from that spring roster. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 13, 2022 23:08:25 GMT -5
A lot of teams had uncharacteristic performances that season. Are you really judging Stanford's performance history on that season? Stanford dealt with COVID restrictions and injury issues that Utah didn't. You're trying to ignore the results for convenience, while simultaneously ignoring last season's perception of overperformance off of that baseline (as well as the gross underestimation of what an upgrade Jankiewicz was over SKT). Utah was picked low in the preseason poll precisely because of how bad they looked in the Spring season. Why are you making excuses for Stanford? Frankly, you have no idea what different stresses each team had, how they were handled and what problems manifested. Trying to excuse one team while holding another accountable for that season is a fools errand. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Jul 14, 2022 1:07:00 GMT -5
It was fair criticism.
You said, basically, "Beth always outperforms expectations", and he called you on it. IMO you should have just owned up and said, "yeah, OK, not ALWAYS".
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 14, 2022 1:13:53 GMT -5
the way you answered makes me think you thought I had some sort of doubting or malicious intent in asking. I genuinely just don’t keep up too much with Utah volleyball, but I know they lost Drews and Weatherington (over half their swings I think, granted Drews was like all of them) and their starting setter. Wasn’t sure what they had brought in in the way of transfers/returners/freshmen. No, I didn't think you were malicious and I didn't mean to sound condescending. I don't know what they have, I just know they seem to have a knack for developing players that seemingly come from nowhere. I mean, Dani Drews wasn't Dani Drews before she got to Utah. (literally and figuratively, since she not only was the #41 Senior ace, but she was Dani Barton!). Kenzie Koerber wasn't even a top 100 SA. I don't know how, but they always seem to be at least alright. Maybe this time will be different, but I am not betting on it. Definitely not always. They had losing seasons in 2011 and 2012 (granted, there was a big difference between the talent level in the Mountain West and the Pac-12 in that era) and 2015 (that one is harder to overlook, as they had been in the Pac-12 long enough at that point). I'm less pessimistic about Utah than a lot of other people are around here, but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that they're bad to mediocre next year. |
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Post by redbeard2008 on Jul 14, 2022 2:39:43 GMT -5
Well, UW started out the Covid year getting swept in Seattle by ASU, so I'd say they significantly out-performed expectations the rest of the way.
Utah was 13-4 in-conference, but had three of their last four matches canceled, before getting swept in the tourney by a very good Pitt team, which took a miracle finish by UW to beat. That season was all topsy-turvy and upside-down.
Beth is a quality coach who, with four freshmen and two transfers coming in, will put a decent team on the floor. Will her team win the conference? No. Will they be a spoiler, especially in SLC? Possibly. Maybe even probably.
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 14, 2022 6:05:11 GMT -5
It was fair criticism. You said, basically, "Beth always outperforms expectations", and he called you on it. IMO you should have just owned up and said, "yeah, OK, not ALWAYS". Or, you could quote my actual original post instead of making %*$# up, which already said "almost always", followed by multiple posts explaining what I meant (development of unknown players like Barton and Koerber into stars). I thought the bbg95 summation of Utah dating to pre-Pac days was fair, and I thought redbeard2008 accurately pointed out that c4ndlelight had even less of a case with Utah in the Covid year than I at first thought. It wasn't fair criticism, it was just wrong. |
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