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Post by mikegarrison on Jul 14, 2022 6:25:58 GMT -5
This is so stupid. OK, look, here is the preseason coaches poll. static.pac-12.com/sports/volleyball-w/pdf/All-Time_Pac-12_WVB_Coaches_Poll.pdfIf you want to talk about "exceeding expectations", then this is probably the most objective definition of "expectations". I mean, you can have your own subjective expectations, and maybe Utah "almost always" exceeds them, but that's specific to you. In 2020 Utah was voted to finish first. They did not finish first. Thus, by this recorded measure of expectations, they fell short of expectations. Just like c4ndlelight said. How have they done in other years? 2021 Predicted 7, Finished 3 2020 Predicted 1, Finished 3 2019 Predicted 5, Finished 3 2018 Predicted 8, Finished 6 (tied with two others) 2017 Predicted 4, Finished 4 2016 Predicted 8, Finished 5 (tied with 1) 2015 Predicted 10, Finished 10 (tied with 1) 2014 Predicted 10, Finished 7 (tied with two others) That's as far back as I have easy data. So I would say that they have often finished a little better than the coaches predicted them at the start of the season, though occasionally have finished a little worse. All-in-all, however, they have generally finished pretty close to expectations, just a few places away from their preseason poll (since one could argue that "tied for 7th with two other teams is also "tied for 9th with two other teams"). The biggest "exceeded expectations" on the list is this past year. However, as was stated just above this post, I think this was a reaction by the coaches to their disappointment with Utah's performance in 2020. While it says "predicted 1 but finished 3", they were the clear favorites in 2020, expected to be a juggernaut. That third place finish represented a big letdown in expectations, and I think that led to the coaches undervaluing them in the 2021 poll. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Jul 14, 2022 6:42:42 GMT -5
Part of why that 2020/2021 season was disappointing for Utah is that they started it 8-0 with no COVID cancellations and finished it 5-4 with a bunch of COVID cancellations. I don't remember now how many were because Utah cancelled and how many were because the other team cancelled.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jul 14, 2022 7:00:18 GMT -5
Another way to look at the same data is that every year except two, the coaches correctly picked whether Utah would be in the top half of the conference standings or the bottom half. In 2016 the coaches picked them in the bottom half (8th) and Utah finished in the top half (tied for 5th). In 2021 the coaches picked them in the bottom half (7th) and they finished top half (3rd).
(I consider tied with two other teams for 6th place to be "bottom half".)
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 14, 2022 9:08:25 GMT -5
I completely agree. If you want to talk about "exceeding expectations" This was a small, throw away discussion that didn't involve you. I have no idea why you decidedto inject yourself, nor why you continue to paraphrase to alter meaning. c4ndlelight didnt talk about "exceeding expectations", they said for Utah that "it was a season they played where they massively underperformed" Do you agree that they massively underperformed? That is the statement you are now defending. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jul 14, 2022 9:15:48 GMT -5
I completely agree. If you want to talk about "exceeding expectations" This was a small, throw away discussion that didn't involve you. I have no idea why you decidedto inject yourself, nor why you continue to paraphrase to alter meaning. c4ndlelight didnt talk about "exceeding expectations", they said for Utah that "it was a season they played where they massively underperformed" Do you agree that they massively underperformed? That is the statement you are now defending. Utah massively underperformed in the Spring season. I stand by it. They were supposed to dominate the conference and be a Final Four threat, they weren't close. Their record was inflated because they barely played (not at full strength), and didn't beat any of the top teams - housed by UW, cancelled against Oregon, had 1/2 cancelled against WSU and then got them with best players still out, got UCLA after the setter went down when they were spiraling. They lost to CU, and barely squeaked by SC/ASU. Oh and they lost their opening tourney match with a cumulative score of 75-53 and never made it to 20. The low expectations were directly related to how they performed, and I stand by that. I'm sorry this hurts you so much Mr. Launiere. |
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Post by jwvolley on Jul 14, 2022 9:21:05 GMT -5
Curious/Eager to see if Oregon meets their expectations this year. Elite passing, elite setter... let's see what that third contact ends up doing. Brooke deserves a hype season
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 14, 2022 10:30:58 GMT -5
Part of why that 2020/2021 season was disappointing for Utah is that they started it 8-0 with no COVID cancellations and finished it 5-4 with a bunch of COVID cancellations. I don't remember now how many were because Utah cancelled and how many were because the other team cancelled. To be fair, Utah beat up on non-tournament teams to start that season (Arizona x2, Cal x2, Arizona State x2, USC x2). Their matches with Oregon got canceled, and when they finally played a good team in Washington, they lost both. They then beat Covid-crippled Stanford twice before splitting with UCLA and Colorado and beating Washington State once (the second match got canceled, as did their series with Oregon State to end the season). I also thought Utah was overrated going into that season. They had 10 losses in 2019, but they seemed to match up pretty well with Stanford for whatever reason, so some people were sincerely arguing that they were the second-best team in the country, which I never bought (if they had beaten Stanford, I don't think they win the title). Were they disappointing compared to their preseason expectations? Absolutely. But I think those preseason expectations were a little unrealistic in the first place. |
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 14, 2022 11:26:17 GMT -5
I'm sorry this hurts you so much Mr. Launiere. You caught me, gotta fight for the fam, but don't worry, the pillow talk is still amazing. Beth: Tell me again how I didn't massively underperform? Me: No way, baby, at worst you still did arguably alright. Beth: Stop it, I'm melting |
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Post by Gladys Kravitz on Jul 14, 2022 13:40:27 GMT -5
This is so stupid. OK, look, here is the preseason coaches poll. I am really interested in the coming 2022 Pac-12 WVB preseason coach's poll. Does Stanford rebound? Is USC a contender? Is OREGON the top dog? |
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Post by trojansc on Jul 14, 2022 13:49:10 GMT -5
Part of why that 2020/2021 season was disappointing for Utah is that they started it 8-0 with no COVID cancellations and finished it 5-4 with a bunch of COVID cancellations. I don't remember now how many were because Utah cancelled and how many were because the other team cancelled. To be fair, Utah beat up on non-tournament teams to start that season (Arizona x2, Cal x2, Arizona State x2, USC x2). Their matches with Oregon got canceled, and when they finally played a good team in Washington, they lost both. They then beat Covid-crippled Stanford twice before splitting with UCLA and Colorado and beating Washington State once (the second match got canceled, as did their series with Oregon State to end the season). I also thought Utah was overrated going into that season. They had 10 losses in 2019, but they seemed to match up pretty well with Stanford for whatever reason, so some people were sincerely arguing that they were the second-best team in the country, which I never bought (If they had beaten Stanford, I don't think they win the title). Were they disappointing compared to their preseason expectations? Absolutely. But I think those preseason expectations were a little unrealistic in the first place. They also played 13(!!) 5-setters in 2019. They went 6-7 in those matches. Heck, they went 5 in their 1st round tournament match against Illinois. Utah was erratic in 2019, but very dangerous. |
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Post by Fight On! on Jul 14, 2022 16:01:13 GMT -5
Does this thread need a new title?
Last year’s PAC, 2020 PAC?, 2019 PAC?
Not much discussion of next year’s PAC. Lol
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Post by JJVb on Jul 19, 2022 2:38:49 GMT -5
How does this preconference look for them and the PAC12? Definitely a shorter schedule than they did last year. But this seems to be missing a weekend of games that are on other teams schedules. PSU schedule shows a tourney in Corvallis vs. North Texas and Utah State Sep 9th weekend. Maybe this was recently dropped?
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Post by uofaGRAD on Jul 19, 2022 7:40:20 GMT -5
How does this preconference look for them and the PAC12? Definitely a shorter schedule than they did last year. But this seems to be missing a weekend of games that are on other teams schedules. PSU schedule shows a tourney in Corvallis vs. North Texas and Utah State Sep 9th weekend. Maybe this was recently dropped? with how injury prone that team has been, I can’t blame Barnard for taking one of the weeks off. either way, it’s actually a decent non-con. I’d take it over ours🙃 |
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Post by hipsterfilth on Jul 19, 2022 8:26:02 GMT -5
In 2019, Utah pushed Stanford to five in the S16 and everyone went buck wild. I remember reading comments on the YT vid that Utah was clearly the second best team in the country since Stanford went on to dominate the B1G.
By that same logic, Illinois who pushed Utah to a deuce fifth set in the first round must’ve been the third best team in the country despite finishing sixth in the B1G and 16-14 overall.
Sometimes teams show the f up and play a crazy good match. Beth gets oodles of credit for being a coach that players consistently show up and show out for. You can see from watching Utah that players love playing for her.
IMO, 2020 Utah was MASSIVELY overrated based on one match. To anyone who watched them all year… meh. Good, not great. If Beth gets blamed for the team “underperforming” in 2020, she also gets credit for the team overperforming in the 2019 tourney.
It is what it is- sometimes the expectations are unfair to begin with. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Beth is a good coach.
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Post by jwvolley on Jul 19, 2022 8:33:37 GMT -5
In 2019, Utah pushed Stanford to five in the S16 and everyone went buck wild. I remember reading comments on the YT vid that Utah was clearly the second best team in the country since Stanford went on to dominate the B1G. By that same logic, Illinois who pushed Utah to a deuce fifth set in the first round must’ve been the third best team in the country despite finishing sixth in the B1G and 16-14 overall. Sometimes teams show the f up and play a crazy good match. Beth gets oodles of credit for being a coach that players consistently show up and show out for. You can see from watching Utah that players love playing for her. IMO, 2020 Utah was MASSIVELY overrated based on one match. To anyone who watched them all year… meh. Good, not great. If Beth gets blamed for the team “underperforming” in 2020, she also gets credit for the team overperforming in the 2019 tourney. It is what it is- sometimes the expectations are unfair to begin with. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Beth is a good coach. Utah also lost two important pieces at MB and libero going into 2020, both of whom were great players. |
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