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Post by wonkaman on Jan 10, 2022 11:03:42 GMT -5
A majority of the double calls and throw calls occur on plays that are tight to the net. The officials must be concerned with the ball contact, net contact, ball in the plane, did the blocker reach over. These judgements can be eliminated with one simple change. Make any ball a blocker can reach legal to block and make all net contacts illegal. This will move setters off of the net and back hitters off of the net. In doing this, the game will become more spectator friendly. Longer rallies will become the norm due to enhanced defensive opportunities. Throws along the net will be eliminated because the ball won't get to the net. The more "judgement" calls are removed from the game the more spectator friendly the game becomes. Points are won by the athletes, not because the person on the ladder blew the whistle. As a coach, player and official, I would have no problem adjusting to this change. It encourages longer rallies and rewards defensive effort without penalizing the offense. The outcome of the game should always be player determined. This isn't gymnastics, where nonparticipants determine the winner. I do like the concept of having the blocker allowed to block any ball they can reach. It would force teams to pass the ball further off the net. I don't know if that would increase offense but I always find it cool when blockers attack aggressively. Would that also apply to attacking the ball even though it is still on the other side of the net? I'm assuming you would still allow the hair nets. Nothing worse than a blocker transitioning back to hit and her pony tail brushes the net.
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Post by pavsec5row10 on Jan 10, 2022 11:35:41 GMT -5
Nothing on throws? Disappointed. Would love to hear your suggestion. There is already a rule in place, what do you want to see in a RULE CHANGE? Better enforcement of the rule.
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Post by vbin58 on Jan 10, 2022 11:43:41 GMT -5
The hair rule doesn't change. I don't think that this change would increase offense. It would simply move offense off of the net thereby increasing backcourt opportunities for the defensive team. Everyone loves the long rallies and the whistle, all to often, ruins the flow of the game. Let the players play.
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Post by eazy on Jan 10, 2022 12:02:54 GMT -5
The hair rule doesn't change. I don't think that this change would increase offense. It would simply move offense off of the net thereby increasing backcourt opportunities for the defensive team. Everyone loves the long rallies and the whistle, all to often, ruins the flow of the game. Let the players play. Why stop there? Let’s get rid of front row attacking all together. Only let front row players block. And add 2 more liberos on the court at a time. Let’s allow 4 contacts if the first touch isn’t a good one. That’ll make rallies last longer too.
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Post by justahick on Jan 10, 2022 12:25:14 GMT -5
A majority of the double calls and throw calls occur on plays that are tight to the net. The officials must be concerned with the ball contact, net contact, ball in the plane, did the blocker reach over. These judgements can be eliminated with one simple change. Make any ball a blocker can reach legal to block and make all net contacts illegal. This will move setters off of the net and back hitters off of the net. In doing this, the game will become more spectator friendly. Longer rallies will become the norm due to enhanced defensive opportunities. Throws along the net will be eliminated because the ball won't get to the net. The more "judgement" calls are removed from the game the more spectator friendly the game becomes. Points are won by the athletes, not because the person on the ladder blew the whistle. As a coach, player and official, I would have no problem adjusting to this change. It encourages longer rallies and rewards defensive effort without penalizing the offense. The outcome of the game should always be player determined. This isn't gymnastics, where nonparticipants determine the winner. This would have a negligible impact. Almost all coaches have moved their passing target to 3'+ off the net - with many to 5'. Nobody is intentionally passing the ball tight anymore.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 10, 2022 15:30:07 GMT -5
Nothing on throws? Disappointed. Would love to hear your suggestion. There is already a rule in place, what do you want to see in a RULE CHANGE? The distinction is between "throwing" and "pushing", it seems to me. The first should be called (regardless of who does it), while the second should not. That is, if it is to be called at all - seldom or never calling it, however, makes a mockery of the rule.
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Post by wonderwarthog79 on Jan 10, 2022 15:55:14 GMT -5
The hair rule doesn't change. I don't think that this change would increase offense. It would simply move offense off of the net thereby increasing backcourt opportunities for the defensive team. Everyone loves the long rallies and the whistle, all to often, ruins the flow of the game. Let the players play. Why stop there? Let’s get rid of front row attacking all together. Only let front row players block. And add 2 more liberos on the court at a time. Let’s allow 4 contacts if the first touch isn’t a good one. That’ll make rallies last longer too. Totally agree, but let's go all the way: No calls for lifts or doubles, hitting the net or coming over the center line OK, maybe run players into the games in the middle of rallies. Finally, require everyone to chug a beer and down a couple of hot dogs between games. So many ways to improve the sport!
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 10, 2022 16:17:16 GMT -5
Why stop there? Let’s get rid of front row attacking all together. Only let front row players block. And add 2 more liberos on the court at a time. Let’s allow 4 contacts if the first touch isn’t a good one. That’ll make rallies last longer too. Totally agree, but let's go all the way: No calls for lifts or doubles, hitting the net or coming over the center line OK, maybe run players into the games in the middle of rallies. Finally, require everyone to chug a beer and down a couple of hot dogs between games. So many ways to improve the sport! The fact that you have to make nonsense "slippery slope" arguments shows that you have no real argument. But if you want a really exciting new rule, let's take a tip from pinball. Multi-ball round!
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Post by n00b on Jan 10, 2022 16:17:20 GMT -5
Why stop there? Let’s get rid of front row attacking all together. Only let front row players block. And add 2 more liberos on the court at a time. Let’s allow 4 contacts if the first touch isn’t a good one. That’ll make rallies last longer too. Totally agree, but let's go all the way: No calls for lifts or doubles, hitting the net or coming over the center line OK, maybe run players into the games in the middle of rallies. Finally, require everyone to chug a beer and down a couple of hot dogs between games. So many ways to improve the sport! Ooooo. I like where you're going with this. If a referee decides there is a double, don't end the rally. Let it play out and whoever wins the rally, gets the point. BUT the player who doubled the ball has to take a shot (liquor of the opponent's choosing). A sport that really gets to the heart of the college experience.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 10, 2022 16:20:55 GMT -5
Totally agree, but let's go all the way: No calls for lifts or doubles, hitting the net or coming over the center line OK, maybe run players into the games in the middle of rallies. Finally, require everyone to chug a beer and down a couple of hot dogs between games. So many ways to improve the sport! Ooooo. I like where you're going with this. If a referee decides there is a double, don't end the rally. Let it play out and whoever wins the rally, gets the point. BUT the player who doubled the ball has to take a shot (liquor of the opponent's choosing). A sport that really gets to the heart of the college experience. My dad used to play in a softball tournament every summer when I was a kid. Players would take their beers out to the field with them, and set them down when the ball was in play. It was an automatic out if your batted ball knocked over somebody's beer.
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Post by hookshott on Jan 11, 2022 12:39:52 GMT -5
That plus posture. Sometimes they just don't like the position your body was in when it contacted the ball. Pretty much anything that "looks wonky" is subject to be called. The thing is, if a referee did not call a "spinning" ball, the coaches would be IRATE (having officiated many Club and high school matches, I can assure you this is the case) so at the moment, it pretty well actually has to be called, even if it is not clearly a "double hit".
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Post by donneyp on Jan 11, 2022 12:55:46 GMT -5
Pretty much anything that "looks wonky" is subject to be called. The thing is, if a referee did not call a "spinning" ball, the coaches would be IRATE (having officiated many Club and high school matches, I can assure you this is the case) so at the moment, it pretty well actually has to be called, even if it is not clearly a "double hit". I had passer shank a pass and the left front swiped her hand at it to try to touch it, and got one finger on the ball but the swiping motion made the ball spin wildly so the ref called a double. I asked how one finger can be called a double and I got a yellow card. I said ok, but you didn't answer the question and I was told to sit down or get a red. We were losing the point anyway so I backed off, but they never did answer how you can double with one finger.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jan 11, 2022 13:06:46 GMT -5
A majority of the double calls and throw calls occur on plays that are tight to the net. The officials must be concerned with the ball contact, net contact, ball in the plane, did the blocker reach over. These judgements can be eliminated with one simple change. Make any ball a blocker can reach legal to block and make all net contacts illegal. This will move setters off of the net and back hitters off of the net. In doing this, the game will become more spectator friendly. Longer rallies will become the norm due to enhanced defensive opportunities. Throws along the net will be eliminated because the ball won't get to the net. The more "judgement" calls are removed from the game the more spectator friendly the game becomes. Points are won by the athletes, not because the person on the ladder blew the whistle. As a coach, player and official, I would have no problem adjusting to this change. It encourages longer rallies and rewards defensive effort without penalizing the offense. The outcome of the game should always be player determined. This isn't gymnastics, where nonparticipants determine the winner. Yuck, the absolute last thing I want is someone who is capable of pressing and getting significantly over the plane and creating a situation where a setter making a great play gets roofed for no reason and having no chance at playing the ball, or you have that setters fingers get broken because of some swing happy attacker that is looking to absolutely take a ball to pound town before it even gets to their side of the net ends someone's season. Most offense systems are being taught to run 3'-5' off the net and purposely passing on the tape is a thing of the past. Getting rid of doubles and getting rid of the plane rule are two completely different things with totally different outcomes, keep teaching kids to be patient and know when a ball is in play or not in lieu of just letting the net be a free for all while trying not to touch it. Also I am not sure what you are qualifying as a throw along the net, most plays setters make at the net on second contact are either doubled under the current rules or they have the body control to make an outstanding set and keep the rally alive.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jan 11, 2022 13:08:15 GMT -5
The thing is, if a referee did not call a "spinning" ball, the coaches would be IRATE (having officiated many Club and high school matches, I can assure you this is the case) so at the moment, it pretty well actually has to be called, even if it is not clearly a "double hit". I had passer shank a pass and the left front swiped her hand at it to try to touch it, and got one finger on the ball but the swiping motion made the ball spin wildly so the ref called a double. I asked how one finger can be called a double and I got a yellow card. I said ok, but you didn't answer the question and I was told to sit down or get a red. We were losing the point anyway so I backed off, but they never did answer how you can double with one finger. Simple, you didn't get an answer because in that moment they realized they don't know what was actually supposed to be called (a lift), or they instantly realized they were wrong and went on a power trip of just carding you to get out of the situation.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 11, 2022 13:28:50 GMT -5
I had passer shank a pass and the left front swiped her hand at it to try to touch it, and got one finger on the ball but the swiping motion made the ball spin wildly so the ref called a double. I asked how one finger can be called a double and I got a yellow card. I said ok, but you didn't answer the question and I was told to sit down or get a red. We were losing the point anyway so I backed off, but they never did answer how you can double with one finger. Simple, you didn't get an answer because in that moment they realized they don't know what was actually supposed to be called (a lift), or they instantly realized they were wrong and went on a power trip of just carding you to get out of the situation. I'm pretty sure donneyp knew this already, but was just trying to make the point that the ref automatically called the double based on spin, even though it couldn't possibly have been an actual double contact. Despite every version of the rules I've ever seen warning that refs should not call doubles based on spin, some of them definitely call doubles based on spin.
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