bluepenquin
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Posts: 13,255 
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 14:49:01 GMT -5
MAGA in the Republican party was a movement that was happening with or without Trump. Trump was essentially at the right place at the right time. A large part of MAGA is native populism (which I find rather dangerous). But at the moment - it also incorporates most of the conservative principles. Although the supposed “MAGA” ideals might have been largely held within the Republican Party, I don’t think there was anyone other than Trump, at the time, who could have effectively taken those ideals and won. There was a lot of hand wringing going on about who could possibly defeat HRC, and no one who seemed likely to do it before Trump got inadvertently goaded to run. Without Trump, the whole MAGA movement would have quickly died on the vine. imo The MAGA movement had been going on since ~ 1996 or before. The Eisenhower/Reagan Republican party was becoming a dinosaur with the 1) end of the cold war and 2) Clinton coopting much of the Republican economic policies. Ross Perot and the reform party was up for grabs - and they were eventually going to make their way to the Republicans. Bush was able to hold it together in a narrow and controversial win in 2000 and was able to win reelection in large part because of 9/11. McCain was dead man walking with the massive recession in 2007/2008 - which also led to the bank bailout that really set the MAGA movement into motion. The Republican party didn't really understand what was happening - and nominated the worst possible candidate in 2012 - Milt Romney - a rich old school white guy that had no connection to the expanding secular rural white voter. And that rural white voter stayed home in the 2012 election - the 4M+ white voters that voted for McCain, but refused to vote in 2012. This is the group that Trump brought back and expanded into the Republican party. It was a natural evolution of how the electorate was moving. These people were leaving the Democratic party - while college educated suburban white's were leaving the Republicans. This angst - against open Immigration, Pro Wallstreet - bank bailouts, never ending wars - has been becoming a big part of the Republican grassroot movement long before Trump and it wasn't ever likely to change directions. Trump was there to capitalize on this movement. |
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Post by HOLIDAY on May 16, 2023 14:50:29 GMT -5
If you support the platform, which RDS, Haley, and Scott clearly do, that makes you a MAGA supporter. Voting for RDS because he's more "palatable" means you are voting for the exact same things Trump believes in. Not true in my view. I support the vast majority of things Trump supports. Of course - no one is going to be 100%, but in terms of policy - I am probably 90% in agreement with Trump and less than 5% in agreement with Biden. But then there is all the other crap that comes with Trump. 1) Denied his election loss in 2020 - and then took this to extremes. 2) I don't approve of the way he talks to people or the way he treats people - 300M people in the US we can do way better. 3) Horrible management style that doesn't work as President. 4) To many ties and coziness to racists. 5) Constant womanizing. Those are just a few of the problems - for which someone of better/good/great character and same policy would be a major improvement. I get it....even understand your position on most of these issues but..... 1) I am not sure what you expect when Trump is totally aware of the sleaziness directed toward him by the FBI, the DOJ, the media, etc. Do you want him to be like other Republicans that have been screwed by the media for years and say," Oh well, gosh darn it...life is unfair?" You either care about election integrity or you don't? Which is it Blue? 2) So each time someone screws him over and trashed his businesses, his family, etc he once again should just say, " Oh gosh...people can be unfair?" 3) What do you know about his management style? The good ole boys wanted him to play ball and he didn't. 4) agree 5) agree |
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,255
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 15:08:11 GMT -5
Not true in my view. I support the vast majority of things Trump supports. Of course - no one is going to be 100%, but in terms of policy - I am probably 90% in agreement with Trump and less than 5% in agreement with Biden. But then there is all the other crap that comes with Trump. 1) Denied his election loss in 2020 - and then took this to extremes. 2) I don't approve of the way he talks to people or the way he treats people - 300M people in the US we can do way better. 3) Horrible management style that doesn't work as President. 4) To many ties and coziness to racists. 5) Constant womanizing. Those are just a few of the problems - for which someone of better/good/great character and same policy would be a major improvement. I get it....even understand your position on most of these issues but..... 1) I am not sure what you expect when Trump is totally aware of the sleaziness directed toward him by the FBI, the DOJ, the media, etc. Do you want him to be like other Republicans that have been screwed by the media for years and say," Oh well, gosh darn it...life is unfair?" You either care about election integrity or you don't? Which is it Blue? 2) So each time someone screws him over and trashed his businesses, his family, etc he once again should just say, " Oh gosh...people can be unfair?" 3) What do you know about his management style? The good ole boys wanted him to play ball and he didn't. 4) agree 5) agree Trump seems to care more about himself than the movement he claims to be moving. Did Nixon get screwed in 1960? Did Gore get screwed in 2000? You file your objections through the election process and through the courts - then put the country ahead of your own ambitions. Trump broke this - then proceeded to break this. And it was unnecessary and fully self fulfilling. He laid the seeds in 2016 by calling the Republican primary rigged. We have a constitution and an election process for determining the President of the US. Trump didn't care about the constitution - I find this unacceptable. As for #2 - belittling people, calling people juvenile names, attacking spouses and children of other politicians - these aren't the traits of what I see for President. These are the traits of someone with an out of control ego. EVERY presidential candidate has been attacked with unwarranted stuff. That is part of the job. But attacking everyone all the time is just a waste of time. Not to mention - he spends about 10X more time attacking other Republicans than the does Democrats. |
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Post by mvucla on May 16, 2023 15:35:01 GMT -5
Reagan was finger nails on a chalk board to most Democrats and some portions of the Republican party. I don't see DeSantis anything like a Scott Walker - I see him as a very savvy politician that can speak directly and eloquently to the issues that most Republicans care about. He can be confrontational and no compromise w/o being mentally off the rails and making everything about himself (Trump). His only issues are CULTURE WARS, culture wars, culture wars, and culture wars. "Woke" this, trans that, "I'll save you from the horror of watching a drag show" the other. Unfortunately, you may be correct that he is speaking directly to the issues that most Republicans care about, but that doesn't reflect well on "most Republicans". Vs the democrats only issue is promoting sexual perversion pwrversion and infanticide. Your issues are moronic at best |
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Post by mvucla on May 16, 2023 15:41:24 GMT -5
I would say that the way he handled Covid (and being right) is his #1 positive issue to most Republicans and what launched him. And yes - Woke is also a huge issue. These two issues tie into Public education and the major appeal that came from Glenn Youngkin's win in Virginia that was very successful in a Purple to Blueish state. And what DeSantis did in Florida (not previously considered a deep red state). The response to COVID is 100% part of the culture wars. And no, his response to it was not "right". Florida was #13 in terms of COVID deaths per capita (and almost all of those higher on the list were other "red" states -- Arizona, Mississippi, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, New Mexico, Tennessee, Michigan, New Jersey, Kentucky, Louisiana, Florida. Almost all of them in the "old South", almost all of the deep "red" states, almost all of them that did their utmost to reject the recommendations from the CDC. Like you. What a moron. It hit hardest whete there were aging populations. Don't post stupid crap |
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Post by kro2488 on May 16, 2023 15:50:00 GMT -5
His only issues are CULTURE WARS, culture wars, culture wars, and culture wars. "Woke" this, trans that, "I'll save you from the horror of watching a drag show" the other. Unfortunately, you may be correct that he is speaking directly to the issues that most Republicans care about, but that doesn't reflect well on "most Republicans". Vs the democrats only issue is promoting sexual perversion pwrversion and infanticide. Your issues are moronic at best Says the one looking at everything through very simple lenses. Not everything is as black and white as you would hope it to be! Wake up, and quit being so overly simple and foolish. |
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Post by mvucla on May 16, 2023 18:12:21 GMT -5
Vs the democrats only issue is promoting sexual perversion pwrversion and infanticide. Your issues are moronic at best Says the one looking at everything through very simple lenses. Not everything is as black and white as you would hope it to be! Wake up, and quit being so overly simple and foolish. Oh please, tell that to all the idiot leftists on here. They are the simpleton by far. Wake up and stop tge lame comments |
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Post by volleyguy on May 16, 2023 19:21:00 GMT -5
His only issues are CULTURE WARS, culture wars, culture wars, and culture wars. "Woke" this, trans that, "I'll save you from the horror of watching a drag show" the other. Unfortunately, you may be correct that he is speaking directly to the issues that most Republicans care about, but that doesn't reflect well on "most Republicans". Vs the democrats only issue is promoting sexual perversion pwrversion and infanticide. Your issues are moronic at best You're so stupid. |
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Post by mvucla on May 17, 2023 8:58:14 GMT -5
Vs the democrats only issue is promoting sexual perversion pwrversion and infanticide. Your issues are moronic at best You're so stupid. lol, nice reply dork. Too close to home about transvestites? |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 17, 2023 9:25:03 GMT -5
Although the supposed “MAGA” ideals might have been largely held within the Republican Party, I don’t think there was anyone other than Trump, at the time, who could have effectively taken those ideals and won. There was a lot of hand wringing going on about who could possibly defeat HRC, and no one who seemed likely to do it before Trump got inadvertently goaded to run. Without Trump, the whole MAGA movement would have quickly died on the vine. imo The MAGA movement had been going on since ~ 1996 or before. The Eisenhower/Reagan Republican party was becoming a dinosaur with the 1) end of the cold war and 2) Clinton coopting much of the Republican economic policies. Ross Perot and the reform party was up for grabs - and they were eventually going to make their way to the Republicans. Bush was able to hold it together in a narrow and controversial win in 2000 and was able to win reelection in large part because of 9/11. McCain was dead man walking with the massive recession in 2007/2008 - which also led to the bank bailout that really set the MAGA movement into motion. The Republican party didn't really understand what was happening - and nominated the worst possible candidate in 2012 - Milt Romney - a rich old school white guy that had no connection to the expanding secular rural white voter. And that rural white voter stayed home in the 2012 election - the 4M+ white voters that voted for McCain, but refused to vote in 2012. This is the group that Trump brought back and expanded into the Republican party. It was a natural evolution of how the electorate was moving. These people were leaving the Democratic party - while college educated suburban white's were leaving the Republicans. This angst - against open Immigration, Pro Wallstreet - bank bailouts, never ending wars - has been becoming a big part of the Republican grassroot movement long before Trump and it wasn't ever likely to change directions. Trump was there to capitalize on this movement. Before Trump, who would you say was the leader or best representative of the MAGA movement? |
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Post by volleyguy on May 17, 2023 9:25:05 GMT -5
lol, nice reply dork. Too close to home about transvestites? If that were true, you wouldn’t be stupid. Stupid would be not seeing right before your eyes, wouldn’t it? |
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,255
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Post by bluepenquin on May 17, 2023 14:01:09 GMT -5
The MAGA movement had been going on since ~ 1996 or before. The Eisenhower/Reagan Republican party was becoming a dinosaur with the 1) end of the cold war and 2) Clinton coopting much of the Republican economic policies. Ross Perot and the reform party was up for grabs - and they were eventually going to make their way to the Republicans. Bush was able to hold it together in a narrow and controversial win in 2000 and was able to win reelection in large part because of 9/11. McCain was dead man walking with the massive recession in 2007/2008 - which also led to the bank bailout that really set the MAGA movement into motion. The Republican party didn't really understand what was happening - and nominated the worst possible candidate in 2012 - Milt Romney - a rich old school white guy that had no connection to the expanding secular rural white voter. And that rural white voter stayed home in the 2012 election - the 4M+ white voters that voted for McCain, but refused to vote in 2012. This is the group that Trump brought back and expanded into the Republican party. It was a natural evolution of how the electorate was moving. These people were leaving the Democratic party - while college educated suburban white's were leaving the Republicans. This angst - against open Immigration, Pro Wallstreet - bank bailouts, never ending wars - has been becoming a big part of the Republican grassroot movement long before Trump and it wasn't ever likely to change directions. Trump was there to capitalize on this movement. Before Trump, who would you say was the leader or best representative of the MAGA movement? I don't know there was anyone at the national level - the MAGA movement (before they got this name or Trump used it) had been brewing and getting bigger at the grassroots level. State level Republicans are considerably more MAGA now than the House or Senate - this was and is a bottom up movement. In 2016 - Ted Cruz probably best fit the movement (and would have most certainly been the nominee had it not been for Trump) - but he failed to go all in on this. He certainly was all in on the Immigration stuff. Everyone else from Rubio on down was dead in the water just because they had once used the word 'amnesty' in trying to forge an Immigration solution. |
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Post by mikegarrison on May 17, 2023 14:33:14 GMT -5
In 2016 - Ted Cruz probably best fit the movement (and would have most certainly been the nominee had it not been for Trump) Ted Cruz is one of the most unlikable people in America, and I'm pretty sure he will never be President of the USA. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 18, 2023 1:22:48 GMT -5
Even without the emergence of Trump, I don't know if Cruz would have won the nomination.
He definitely wouldn't have beaten HRC.
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Post by HOLIDAY on May 18, 2023 3:53:35 GMT -5
imagine people who put their own countries interests first being labeled as crazy people. That’s how screwed up our country has become. Isn’t this what every country basically does is think of their own citizens and their own success first?
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