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Post by mikegarrison on May 16, 2023 8:34:52 GMT -5
Plenty of them, actually. Like, for instance, our beloved Senate Minority Leader. The thing is, they can mostly hold their positions of power, but they have real problems trying to get enough GOP voter support to avoid getting primaried if they try to move out of their established nests. You may be surprised how disliked McConnell is among the MAGA people in the party. He is really held no higher than Romney among those people. So what part of my post did you not understand when you think I would be surprised by that? |
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 8:38:06 GMT -5
You may be surprised how disliked McConnell is among the MAGA people in the party. He is really held no higher than Romney among those people. So what part of my post did you not understand when you think I would be surprised by that? I guess I was confused by calling McConnell beloved - that probably was a joke? |
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Post by mikegarrison on May 16, 2023 8:39:01 GMT -5
So what part of my post did you not understand when you think I would be surprised by that? I guess I was confused by calling McConnell beloved - that probably was a joke? No, I love McConnell. He's my number one favorite politician of all time. How could anyone think I was being sarcastic? |
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Post by mervinswerved on May 16, 2023 8:40:57 GMT -5
There isn't a single "non-MAGA" person in a position of power in the GOP outside of maybe Mitt Romney. The two leading candidates for their presidential nomination have identical platforms. Depends on whether you believe there are GOP senators in a position of power? McConnell isn't MAGA. Sure he is. He's approved literally everything Trump and the right wing has wanted to do. Most of Trump's ideological and legislative priorities come directly from McConnell. If you support the platform, which RDS, Haley, and Scott clearly do, that makes you a MAGA supporter. Voting for RDS because he's more "palatable" means you are voting for the exact same things Trump believes in. I cited Romney. Sununu and Hogan are governors and not in a position of national leadership. They're sitting it out. |
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Post by mikegarrison on May 16, 2023 8:49:10 GMT -5
IMO, Trump doesn't *have* any ideological or legislative priorities except power and money and adulation to him and his family. I don't really see MAGA as an ideology. It's just populist nativism demagoguery. Trump certainly didn't invent it. He just recognized that the GOP had been steadily creating a Trump-sized hole for someone to step into, and he decided to step into it.
The GOP has been stirring up this populist nativism for a long time thinking that they are using people like Holiday as captive voters, but all of a sudden it's like the elephant they were riding on decided to go where it wanted to go instead of where they wanted it to go, and they found themselves along for the ride.
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Post by mervinswerved on May 16, 2023 8:52:26 GMT -5
IMO, Trump doesn't *have* any ideological or legislative priorities except power and money and adulation to him and his family. I don't really see MAGA as an ideology. It's just populist nativism demagoguery. Trump certainly didn't invent it. He just recognized that the GOP had been steadily creating a Trump-sized hole for someone to step into, and he decided to step into it. The GOP has been stirring up this populist nativism for a long time thinking that they are using people like Holiday as captive voters, but all of a sudden it's like the elephant they were riding on decided to go where it wanted to go instead of where they wanted it to go, and they found themselves along for the ride. Right. There is a segment of GOP voters who wish to view Trump as an agent of change that altered the GOP base rather than a manifestation of a half century of party transformation. If Donald Trump didn't exist, right wingers would have had to create him. |
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Post by mikegarrison on May 16, 2023 9:07:37 GMT -5
IMO, Trump doesn't *have* any ideological or legislative priorities except power and money and adulation to him and his family. I don't really see MAGA as an ideology. It's just populist nativism demagoguery. Trump certainly didn't invent it. He just recognized that the GOP had been steadily creating a Trump-sized hole for someone to step into, and he decided to step into it. The GOP has been stirring up this populist nativism for a long time thinking that they are using people like Holiday as captive voters, but all of a sudden it's like the elephant they were riding on decided to go where it wanted to go instead of where they wanted it to go, and they found themselves along for the ride. Right. There is a segment of GOP voters who wish to view Trump as an agent of change that altered the GOP base rather than a manifestation of a half century of party transformation. If Donald Trump didn't exist, right wingers would have had to create him. Which I why I don't think McConnell is "MAGA". I think he thinks he was using Trump to get what he wanted, and Trump thinks he was using McConnell to get what he wanted, and they were both kind of right and kind of wrong. Thus the old saying that politics makes for strange bedfellows. McConnell's number one priority was to gain control of the Federal court system with its lifetime, unelected appointees. Something he has pretty much entirely managed to do. And if kissing ass to Trump and enabling Trump's blundering kleptocracy was what he needed to do to make it happen, so be it. |
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 10:56:22 GMT -5
I guess I was confused by calling McConnell beloved - that probably was a joke? No, I love McConnell. He's my number one favorite politician of all time. How could anyone think I was being sarcastic? I thought you meant 'beloved' by Republicans. Doesn't matter - I don't think McConnell is liked at all by MAGA Republicans - in fact he is very much disliked. I know you don't like him - I wasn't sure what you thought in terms of MAGA Republicans so you very well may not be surprised. |
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 10:58:24 GMT -5
Depends on whether you believe there are GOP senators in a position of power? McConnell isn't MAGA. Sure he is. He's approved literally everything Trump and the right wing has wanted to do. Most of Trump's ideological and legislative priorities come directly from McConnell. He is pretty much hated by the MAGA base. His position in foreign policy is a non starter for Republicans. |
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 11:06:41 GMT -5
I view these conversations on Trump, MAGA, and the Republican party to be correct. The Republican party has changed and it isn't going back anytime soon. Bush - then McCain and Romney tried to keep things the same, but the base of the party had shifted - in large part as a reaction to the shifts in the Democratic party. This happens all the time.
The Democratic party abandoned blue collar workers - and the Republican party moved to take over that void. MAGA in the Republican party was a movement that was happening with or without Trump. Trump was essentially at the right place at the right time.
A large part of MAGA is native populism (which I find rather dangerous). But at the moment - it also incorporates most of the conservative principles.
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 11:14:08 GMT -5
If you support the platform, which RDS, Haley, and Scott clearly do, that makes you a MAGA supporter. Voting for RDS because he's more "palatable" means you are voting for the exact same things Trump believes in. Not true in my view. I support the vast majority of things Trump supports. Of course - no one is going to be 100%, but in terms of policy - I am probably 90% in agreement with Trump and less than 5% in agreement with Biden. But then there is all the other crap that comes with Trump. 1) Denied his election loss in 2020 - and then took this to extremes. 2) I don't approve of the way he talks to people or the way he treats people - 300M people in the US we can do way better. 3) Horrible management style that doesn't work as President. 4) To many ties and coziness to racists. 5) Constant womanizing. Those are just a few of the problems - for which someone of better/good/great character and same policy would be a major improvement. |
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Post by mervinswerved on May 16, 2023 11:17:34 GMT -5
If you support the platform, which RDS, Haley, and Scott clearly do, that makes you a MAGA supporter. Voting for RDS because he's more "palatable" means you are voting for the exact same things Trump believes in. Not true in my view. I support the vast majority of things Trump supports. Of course - no one is going to be 100%, but in terms of policy - I am probably 90% in agreement with Trump and less than 5% in agreement with Biden. But then there is all the other crap that comes with Trump. 1) Denied his election loss in 2020 - and then took this to extremes. 2) I don't approve of the way he talks to people or the way he treats people - 300M people in the US we can do way better. 3) Horrible management style that doesn't work as President. 4) To many ties and coziness to racists. 5) Constant womanizing. Those are just a few of the problems - for which someone of better/good/great character and same policy would be a major improvement. Are you voting for him against Biden in 2024? |
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Post by bluepenquin on May 16, 2023 11:28:33 GMT -5
Not true in my view. I support the vast majority of things Trump supports. Of course - no one is going to be 100%, but in terms of policy - I am probably 90% in agreement with Trump and less than 5% in agreement with Biden. But then there is all the other crap that comes with Trump. 1) Denied his election loss in 2020 - and then took this to extremes. 2) I don't approve of the way he talks to people or the way he treats people - 300M people in the US we can do way better. 3) Horrible management style that doesn't work as President. 4) To many ties and coziness to racists. 5) Constant womanizing. Those are just a few of the problems - for which someone of better/good/great character and same policy would be a major improvement. Are you voting for him against Biden in 2024? I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020. It is already easy for me to not vote for Trump. However, if Trump is nominated again - I will probably vote for the Democrat (first time in my life for any position) - and I think Biden is easily among the worst Presidents of all-time and not even qualified to be President of the US (given his age and current mental state). Unlike 2016 and 2020 - I will very much want Trump to lose. 2016 and 2020 - I was lukewarm wanting Trump to win between 2 awful choices - but not nearly enough that I would consider voting for the guy. Of course this was all pre 1/6 - and that changed a lot things. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 16, 2023 11:31:02 GMT -5
MAGA in the Republican party was a movement that was happening with or without Trump. Trump was essentially at the right place at the right time. A large part of MAGA is native populism (which I find rather dangerous). But at the moment - it also incorporates most of the conservative principles. Although the supposed “MAGA” ideals might have been largely held within the Republican Party, I don’t think there was anyone other than Trump, at the time, who could have effectively taken those ideals and won. There was a lot of hand wringing going on about who could possibly defeat HRC, and no one who seemed likely to do it before Trump got inadvertently goaded to run. Without Trump, the whole MAGA movement would have quickly died on the vine. imo |
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Post by oldnewbie on May 16, 2023 12:12:14 GMT -5
The Democratic party abandoned blue collar workers - and the Republican party moved to take over that void. MAGA in the Republican party was a movement that was happening with or without Trump. Trump was essentially at the right place at the right time. A large part of MAGA is native populism (which I find rather dangerous). But at the moment - it also incorporates most of the conservative principles. I don't think that is entirely correct. The Democrat party has abandoned rural blue collar workers in flyover states, and the Republicans have abandoned cities. I find both to be pathetic. Largely because of racial demographics, in those areas, the Republican party now leans very white and the Democratic party leans very multi-cultural, and each have gone too far in the eyes of some (kind of goes without saying). |
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