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Post by Gorf on Sept 12, 2005 18:45:12 GMT -5
I assume it's difficult for Pacific to recruit the really good players from the local clubs. Most want nothing to do with Stockton. I would imagine they would have better luck with the out-of-state kids who want to play in California, even if Stockton is not close to the beach. Yes, there are exceptions like Jen Joines (Milpitas, CA), Elsa Steggemann, and the like, but as you know, there are exceptions to every rule. These "exceptions" came to UOP to play for JD. He was the link that gave UOP any hope of getting kids. It is going to be very hard for any coach, let alone JM to bring this team back to the hallowed years. You can draw comparisons to the fall of San Jose State once Dick Montgomery left, granted they never won a NC but they were in the 86 Final Four and were consistently in the Top 10. Kids wanted to play for Montgomery and the NCAA rules were a lot less stringent than they are today, those kids trained as a team all summer long. JD started his tenure at UOP and back to back championships in 85 / 86 using TL's recruits. JD was certainly able to get other very good recruits while he was there, however, JM's lack of recruiting success after JD's departure doesn't mean that no future coach could get good recruits to play at UOP. It would be nice IMO to see UOP playing at a high level again.
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Post by Tdome2 on Sept 12, 2005 20:30:39 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying but JD had a few things going for him when he took over and the program never experienced a dip like this...
1) As you stated back to back NC's
2) He was a successful club coach with great connections to Bay Area pipelines
3) Women's Volleyball was in its infancy and the competition for players was not the same as it is today.
Maybe they can get back to where they were, maybe they will take a chance with Devin Scruggs and she will get it done there down the road, maybe TL comes back, who knows.
But IMO with the state of Big West volleyball and the tradition at UOP being quickly forgotten with the attention span of today's recruits in this what have you done lately world, it ain't going to happen.
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Post by cbrown1709 on Sept 13, 2005 1:03:56 GMT -5
I watched part of their match against Pepperdine today. Man they have some problems. It looks like they have some talented hitters. But so many passing problems. Their 2 outsides had so many hitting errors. And most of them straight into the net.
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Post by Gorf on Sept 13, 2005 4:16:03 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying but JD had a few things going for him when he took over and the program never experienced a dip like this... 1) As you stated back to back NC's 2) He was a successful club coach with great connections to Bay Area pipelines 3) Women's Volleyball was in its infancy and the competition for players was not the same as it is today. Maybe they can get back to where they were, maybe they will take a chance with Devin Scruggs and she will get it done there down the road, maybe TL comes back, who knows. But IMO with the state of Big West volleyball and the tradition at UOP being quickly forgotten with the attention span of today's recruits in this what have you done lately world, it ain't going to happen. FWIW: I wasn't trying to knock JD, I've liked him as a coach for a long time. Mostly what I meant was that getting the right coach(es) in place could help restore recruiting at UOP. I'm not even sure it needs to be a new head coach as there are a lot of assistant / associate coaches that make a huge difference in the performance of teams and in recruiting. As for TL returning - since he just took over as the head coach of Oregon State this year I doubt he'd be returning to UOP very soon.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Sept 13, 2005 13:25:43 GMT -5
UOP isn't the job it used to be. They used to be one of the very few programs that was well supported by administration and community. That isn't the case anymore. In terms of campus and campus life there are at least 8 schools more appealing in California alone. Why would a midwesterner go that far to go to UOP?
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Post by Gorf on Sept 13, 2005 13:28:15 GMT -5
Warm weather ad a chance to start and prove they're a top level player rather than riding potentially "riding the pine" along with multiple other incoming recruits at schools like Stanford, USC, etc... ?
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Post by beachter1 on Sept 13, 2005 14:47:50 GMT -5
Warm weather, down right stinking hot in Auguest and September usually. Like USC you take your chances by going off campus... Would not want my daughter a target for a drive-thru... UOP has a beautiful campus, but Stockton, who wants to live in Stockton, it is a big Port of Pie, as in Potty Port. Port -ah-Potty>>>>>>>
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Post by Mumsie on Sept 13, 2005 14:59:40 GMT -5
Warm weather, down right stinking hot in Auguest and September usually. Like USC you take your chances by going off campus... Would not want my daughter a target for a drive-thru... UOP has a beautiful campus, but Stockton, who wants to live in Stockton, it is a big Port of Pie, as in Potty Port. Port -ah-Potty>>>>>>> That is so rude! Wait until Pacific Girl reads this post! And where do you live, Beachter? Let me guess... The SMOG capital of the US? You know, there are good and bad things about every city people live. California is a beautiful state. There are ALOT of worse places to live. And, by the way, it is currently September and the weather in Stockton has been in the low 80's all month! Sure, July and August it can get hot, but at least they aren't shoveling snow in the winter! Pacific is a good school. Don't be a snob.
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Post by Netter on Sept 13, 2005 15:02:24 GMT -5
Well Today it will be sunny with a lovely high of 78 degrees. Not quite stinking hot. For the most part, Stockton is a nice, clean, quaint city, but with lots of commerce and development. If you are a student, most of your time is on campus, and a beautiful one it is. In my travels through there, I've never seen any bad areas, but then again my only destinations there have been to the malls, the restaurants, grocery stores and gas stations. I'll take the high of 57 in the winter, when its 27 in other places, too. No way this town compares to South Central near USC.
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Post by Wolfgang on Sept 13, 2005 15:18:00 GMT -5
I actually like Stockton, but I don't visit there a lot. I guess I really don't like it that much. But I also don't visit Palo Alto or San Francisco all that often either. So maybe I do like Stockton.
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Post by chancelucky on Sept 13, 2005 15:41:50 GMT -5
I think Fresno and Stockton are perfectly nice places to live and go to school, they just don't match most people's fantasies about California.
one other possible reason for the competitive decline of UOP is that jurnior vb talent is now more geographically dispersed across the country. There was a time you could mine California and come up with a team that would do well. Now the 5th or 6th best left in Northern California might be 40 or 50 on a national list instead of 20th. (if you could ever really assign ordinal values to these things)
Suddenly you go from winning most of your matches to struggling against Virginia Sao Paolo. Actually, I've always thought they made matters worse for themselves with the name. Imagine if you were from West Virginia or Bulgaria and someone asked you to come on a recruiting trip to the University of the Pacific. You're going to be thinking something out of the OC. Instead, you get Rough and Ready Island and Captain Weber days.
fwiw, I've known a few people who played at UOP and they were very happy with the place and speak well of Coach Mchugh.
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Post by Wolfgang on Sept 13, 2005 15:50:14 GMT -5
My vision of California is the Hollywood sign. Still is. And I'm a Californian!!
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Post by Gorf on Sept 13, 2005 20:54:45 GMT -5
Y'know - There are some successful D1 teams in California that do pretty well by not worrying about primarily focusing on recruiting players only from within the state.
I don't about this year, USC in recent years has had something like twice as many players from outside of California than they had in state players.
I'd think coaches would want to recruit players that can make their teams better rather than mainly focusing on making sure they get in state players.
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Post by Wolfgang on Sept 13, 2005 21:16:40 GMT -5
I don't about this year, USC in recent years has had something like twice as many players from outside of California than they had in state players. And Louisville gets them from even farther away than "out-of-state."
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Post by TheSantaBarbarian on Sept 13, 2005 21:21:50 GMT -5
Y'know - There are some successful D1 teams in California that do pretty well by not worrying about primarily focusing on recruiting players only from within the state. I don't about this year, USC in recent years has had something like twice as many players from outside of California than they had in state players. I'd think coaches would want to recruit players that can make their teams better rather than mainly focusing on making sure they get in state players. Except that out of state scholies cost double at UCSB and with our lack of funds, boosters have to raise the money for teams to get multi out of state scholies. I'm not trying to make excuses, it is a sore point with the fans right now because we see no evidense that the AD is trying to solve this problem and raise additional funds. By UCSB standards, volleyball is still treated quite well as only men's and women's hoops and women's voleyball are "fully funded" scholarship wise. Such is life the last few years at UCSB.
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