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Post by HawaiiVB on Nov 27, 2023 17:41:00 GMT -5
According to the BW commissioner, these tournaments are a big deal for the conference. He said, paraphrasing, these tournaments will increase the reputation of the BW and the sport of volleyball, including the men's, women's, and beach. He sounds like they are all in with tournaments. So no matter what we think, it is here to stay. The tournament was voted on before this commissioner was hired. What else is he supposed to say? He was hired to promote the BW, but buying into something he didn't believe in would also wear out in the long run. Also, Dan Butterfly came in with a reputation for turning conferences into successes like he did in the MW. In the past week, the MW has contracted with the Pac 2 to partner in football for the next two years. He left the MW in good hands, and his leadership is what gave the MW a presence as a top mid-major conference before leaving for the BW. If he didn't believe in tournaments, he wouldn't be here. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2023 17:49:53 GMT -5
If I'm a coach, why would I agree/consent to have my team go up every year with a permanent advantage to one team, and put my team at a disadvantage every year. Hawaii is not a neutral site. it should be rotated while Dollar Center is nice, it's a non-starter. Bren or Pyramid is more neutral than Hawaii could ever be, due to fan ratios alone. Hawaii fans in Socal pretty much mitigates much of any host HCA in SoCal. Granted, Beach does ahve an edge with the PYramid if I'm a coach of a top team, rotating is the best route unless the an actual neutral site could be found, which would probably be Northridge lol while having Hawaii host ever year is of course better for Hawaii, that's not true for the rest of the Big West, in spite that going to Hawaii is nice in itself though the BWCT is a business trip. LOL I understand why no BW coach would want the tourney played here annually. It's more my wish and probably most Hawaii fans wish. Financially (like you said, it "is a business trip") it would make the most sense though as the tourney would be a sellout every year. Also, I never said Hawaii was a neutral site LOL. Why do you think the Dollar Loan Center a non-starter? Finances? The Basketball tournament crowds in Vegas aren't even the same as what the BWCT Volleyball drew this year. the Dollar Center is nice, it's perfect size. for those that think the Volleyball BWCT attendance wasn't 'good', I give you the Basketball tournament. I suspect the Big West got a subsidy of sorts as in 2022 the BWCT was the very first event at the Dollar Center, and was part of promoting the opening. Maybe not. We'll see in a couple years if that continues. I find it hard to believe unless a) they have a significant sponsor (Hercules for now) or b) attendance doubles (doubtful), it'll continue in Vegas as nice a venue as Dollar is. what is great about the Dollar is I can buy the least priced and worst ticket, and literally find a great seat in the 2nd or 3rd row. It's like going to a Northridge game, a great venue to see the game as close as possible! how that shows on TV isn't too good, showing an 87 year old fan, with about 6 others spread across the entire screen doesn't project very well for the conference. what they do if they go back to SoCal, I suspect they would look like Volleyball at rotating it as well. The MBB would actually end up around 80-90% full for semis and finals if held at Pyramid or Bren. It drew 5k to 6k at the HOnda. The captive SoCal fans that are within driving distance is what supports attendance at the BW tournaments. All but 3 schools (Poly, Davis, Hawaii) within 2 hours, and Hawaii/Poly with sizeable alumni in SoCal. We are not a 'destination' driven conference, and won't be until there are multiple top 10/25 teams in sports. |
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Post by brooselee on Nov 27, 2023 17:51:47 GMT -5
I like the tourney because it allows for teams to compete hard all the way till the end. It does not help if half the league have no shot at post season half way thru the schedule and are only playing for pride.
Having a tourney means the multiple teams still have a shot at postseason and will play at max level to try and reach the dance. It’s just make for better volleyball down the stretch.
I mean if there were no tourney, the final game between Hawaii and LBSU would have been for nothing. The battle for seeding made the match worth playing and watching.
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Post by beachgrad on Nov 27, 2023 17:52:59 GMT -5
Outside the possibility of increasing the amount of bids the main reason is to give teams something to play and compete for. Without a tournament all but UCSB would be sitting on their hands the last two weeks of the regular season. Middle teams are fighting to be the 5th and 6th entries and the top teams are fighting to get the seeding to improve their chances to get to the NCAAs; seeding and possible higher RPI for at large berths. I do not see how this is not good for the conference. From a competitive standpoint, it makes no sense to have a permanent site for the tournament and especially at the location of the historically top team. More conference play does not improve RPI generally because a win also results in a corresponding loss in your opponents record. Non-conference scheduling is where RPI can be influenced. By having the conference tournament it reduced the regular season by two. For example this year LBSU did not have to play one match each vs Fullerton and UCI, both sub 200 RPI teams, and substituted them with two more top 50 RPI teams in UCSB and Hawaii in the semis and finals. The contrast between those two groups I would expect to move RPI in a positive fashion. |
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Post by HawaiiVB on Nov 27, 2023 17:57:21 GMT -5
More conference play does not improve RPI generally because a win also results in a corresponding loss in your opponents record. Non-conference scheduling is where RPI can be influenced. By having the conference tournament it reduced the regular season by two. For example this year LBSU did not have to play one match each vs Fullerton and UCI, both sub 200 RPI teams, and substituted them with two more top 50 RPI teams in UCSB and Hawaii in the semis and finals. That part sucks. It's a shame they couldn't require more conference matches and fewer nonconference ones. |
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Post by HawaiiVB on Nov 27, 2023 17:58:50 GMT -5
In the end, it's a crap shoot for every team when it comes to championship play. Not even Hawai'i knew they would take the championship.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2023 18:01:00 GMT -5
More conference play does not improve RPI generally because a win also results in a corresponding loss in your opponents record. Non-conference scheduling is where RPI can be influenced. By having the conference tournament it reduced the regular season by two. For example this year LBSU did not have to play one match each vs Fullerton and UCI, both sub 200 RPI teams, and substituted them with two more top 50 RPI teams in UCSB and Hawaii in the semis and finals. The contrast between those two groups I would expect would move RPI in a positive fashion. to be fair Davis played Hawaii & Riverside once. so I guess that balanced each other out! Riverside played Hawaii & Davis once. yep, Riverside got royally screwed this year in their RPI boost from scheduling. Had they had a balanced schedule Riverside might have been 287 instead of 294 |
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Post by beachgrad on Nov 27, 2023 18:12:22 GMT -5
If you can find a way that the top half would never play the bottom four I would be happy  . I know there is a way but it would not pass the vote..... |
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Post by noblesol on Nov 27, 2023 18:16:42 GMT -5
The regular season conference winner is always intrinsically hurt by the very existence of the BWCT. An AQ that would have been theirs unquestionably without a tournament, they now have to earn in the tournament. That's not 'Hawai'i focused'. It's just a general truth, applied to all of the BWC. And to all conferences that choose to have a tournament. It devalues the worth of winning the conference, and the consolation prize is better placement in the tournament. Whatever criteria boost UCSB got from this tournament, was also negated in degree by an early round loss in the tournament. That they picked up two top 50 wins with Hawai'i, simply mitigated their overall minor drop in RPI. And their additional loss to Beach mitigated any benefit to their SOS by Beach and Hawaii getting tournament wins. And given the weakness of the UCSB SOS to begin with, the eyesore of an early round conference tournament loss didn't help their overall goodwill before the committee. While a 38 RPI and 27 KPI, and two additional top 50 wins shouldn't have put them anywhere close to selection danger of last-four in, their weak SOS and early round tournament loss didn't help their 'profile' before the committee. It probably confirmed some doubts about their resume. As for attendance, I don't know that the attendance numbers were good or bad. I avoided that characterization. Not sure what the host and BWC were expecting, bracketing the tournament over Thanksgiving. Lesson learned is that it didn't fill the house, nothing close to it for the first two days. And half capacity for the final. While the regular season matchup with Beach-Hawaii in the pyramid was north of 3,000, the BWCT final was a thousand less. Was that the planned for attendance? Did the host cover costs with streaming and sponsors? Did participating programs and BWC cover costs? It's TBD, and I have my doubts there will be public transparency of accounting. the 3000 for Beach-Hawaii is to some extent that Beach draws good student crowds for marquee matches (Texas, UCLA, Hawaii) that get to be 500+ and free admission. students in general are not going to be as large a part of the BWCT, they weren't in the MBB @ the HOnda Center, they aren't in Vegas, and not big for the BWCT. I'm sure that's expected, given T-Giving break. I doubt the conference had 'plans' for attendance, it's the first year, they had no prior data, I'm sure they expected decent crowds, which I think 1000 and over is good for VB, aside from people that view it from the Hawaii prism of viewing attendance and nothing less that packed arenas is ok. I really don't think the Big West is really that sophisiticed enough to do much with data. The streaming numbers would be very interesting. Charactizing the attendance as 'half-empty' ? lol. again, the crowds, given the timing/holiday, were good IMO. I thought for a Wednesday night before Thanksgiving that can be a travel mess was good. the final for the WAC: 103 (not kidding) Big Sky: 528 MAC: 2148 hosted by the home school Big East: 701 SunBelt: 250 Big West: 2137 the BWCT should not be about making money, it shouldn'tz, nore should it be some huge drain. it may some day make a lot of money if Beach, SB, Irvine, Poly, SD keep getting better and grow fan bases and you get two or 3 top 25 teams in the semis, there will be close to full houses like MVB. if the goal is soley money, they shouldn't have it. I doubt it's a huge drain, likely operates at some loss, and even money probably at best. Hard to guess what Outrigger kicked in, or Hercules Tire does for basketball. At $15 avg ticket for 4500 fans, that would be $70,000 in ticket revenue or so. I know Long Beach parking was likely the big winner revenue wise lol. no extra cost, no manpower required, and probably netted them $15 or $20k or so! Parking always jacks the fans, lol. I do know the atmosphere was better than Vegas for Basketball. agree it would be interesting to have the numbers, the league has them. doubt they share them to the average audience, the ADs will know, as it's the ADs that will either continue or discontinue a BWCT. in the end, the BWCT will grow only to the extent that the top tier teams continue to improve to the point of going from 1 or 2 top 50 teams to 3-4 top 50 teams and 1-2 top 25 teams, which would drive more interest, more attendance, and more $$. Mabye that will happen, maybe this year represents what can be maxed out. we'll see. and that was the point of having a BWCT, drive intereset, which it did. Otherwise, the season would have been over essentially on November 11, when SB clinched. Pyramid capacity - 4,200 (NCAA Stats) Finals match attendance - 2,100 (T. Hildebrand post-match interview) Finals match paid attendance - 2,237 (NCAA Stats) Me: "...half capacity for the final." You: "Charactizing the attendance as 'half-empty' ? lol." Yes, half-capacity. Would you prefer half-full? Either way, I'll not characterize it as good or bad. And while I personally was disappointed with the finals attendance by Beach fans and 'other', the usual Hawai'i contingent showed up strong. And that was enjoyable. I've no way of knowing what attendance they expected, or needed to judge it a financial success/failure or a brand building success/failure. If they planned for losses, were they within budget? TBD. Did they turn a profit? TBD. Will they open the books with a public report, breaking out expenses, income streams, and the same for attending programs? TBD, but doubtful. Will they attempt to learn lessons from the BWCT and publicize those? TBD, but doubtful. I've been pro-tournament. But it's a mixed bag of pros and cons. I appreciate that a tournament with the right format can be helpful to some teams with at-large chances, and if they grab an AQ it can help them with better bracketing. In that regard the BWCT can be more pros than cons, most years. But some years it will backfire. It nearly backfired on UCSB this year. I see the points from volleyguy and he makes some good ones. But I'm on the side that the BWCT is worth a shot to see if the pros can outweigh the cons. However, everyone must stay open to learning lessons and working cooperatively IOT iteratively maximize the pros and minimize the cons. Including changes to format and schedule. First, it's axiomatic that the tournament existence took away the AQ that UCSB would have earned in the past. Then it gave five other teams a chance to steal the AQ away. Their consolation prize was #1 seed and a bye in the BWCT. The team UCSB had to face in the semis was the host team, with their home court advantage. Their early exit from the tournament it turned out did not help their RPI or KPI. It was their 'luck' then that Hawai'i won the final and sneaked into the top 50. If Beach had won the final, that would have been greater disaster to their 'profile'. But even picking up two top 50's didn't help them much if at all with this selection committee. They valued a strong SOS. They obviously saw on the UCSB nitty gritty a relatively weak SOS, their best win Iowa St., a very bad loss to UC Irvine, and a very big stinking turd of an early round exit from the BWCT, and a very weak BWC RPI ranked at #19. The result is the BWCT hurt the 'profile' of UCSB more than it helped. This committee gave more weight to teams that 'took care of business', with some recency bias thrown in. And clearly didn't like a relatively weak SOS, especially if there were any bad losses, which by chance put UCSB in their cross-hairs and into a last-four in nail biter. I've made a case that 'right-size' for a BWCT is probably four teams not six, given the current strength of BW teams, and that more than that invites in teams with RPI in the 'bad loss' category. A four team tournament is also easier to fit into that last week, and could avoid a Saturday final that's late in the evening just prior to the committee making cursory changes the next morning with just hours left to prep for the selection show. Four would cost less than six, and would likely capture most of the attendance and revenue of six. But six is what we've got, and it will likely be that for a few more years. |
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Post by Timeless on Nov 27, 2023 18:22:47 GMT -5
If you can find a way that the top half would never play the bottom four I would be happy . I know there is a way but it would not pass the vote..... Sounds harsh but idk why Riverside still participates in athletics. It's a fine academic instruction that can stand on its own two feet. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2023 18:29:32 GMT -5
The tournament is here to stay. The real issue is how to improve the bottom 4 teams and not have their sub 300 RPI drag everyone down with them. Their RPI can drag the conference best teams from in, to bubble and then out. It does not take much of a drop for that to happen. I believe the middle of the conference can improve but a doubter about CSUF, CSUN, UCR and Bakersfield. the fact is the bottom of the Big West has significant issues. Not really not a lot the conference can do other than offer encouragement Davis, Irvine, UCSD keep pushing to get in the top tier. It is difficult. I am grateful for what Northridge has done for Volleyball in the conference. It is significant, in spite of little success. Despite real structural issues and difficulties that the mid upper teams don't have, they were in that first group in the Big West and NCAA to sponsor Sand VB, even though they've had not much success. Maybe their success in indoor during 2011-2014 under Stork was a reason they could sell that to their AD. They are instrumental in the Big West being able to sponsor MVB, where MVB has been a marquee sport nationally for the Big West, and couldn't even sponsor MVB if not for Northridge. THey have a very capable coach who has lots of structural challenges to recruit, and hopefully he can overcome that. Have to give Northridge a ton of credit to the support they've given to the sport. They truly have been a VB school, even if the results are not what they'd like. Only 1 of 4 in the Big West to sponsor all 3 VB sports, and only 1 of 10 in D1 the nation to sponsor all 3. That's a big commmitment they make to the conference and the sport. It's a dinky venue they play in, but a great up close venue for a fan to watch. |
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Post by medusa on Nov 27, 2023 18:33:14 GMT -5
At the end, BWC tourney is a good thing for the conference. There's lows and highs. If your team won its good, if your team lost your sad.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2023 18:45:09 GMT -5
the 3000 for Beach-Hawaii is to some extent that Beach draws good student crowds for marquee matches (Texas, UCLA, Hawaii) that get to be 500+ and free admission. students in general are not going to be as large a part of the BWCT, they weren't in the MBB @ the HOnda Center, they aren't in Vegas, and not big for the BWCT. I'm sure that's expected, given T-Giving break. I doubt the conference had 'plans' for attendance, it's the first year, they had no prior data, I'm sure they expected decent crowds, which I think 1000 and over is good for VB, aside from people that view it from the Hawaii prism of viewing attendance and nothing less that packed arenas is ok. I really don't think the Big West is really that sophisiticed enough to do much with data. The streaming numbers would be very interesting. Charactizing the attendance as 'half-empty' ? lol. again, the crowds, given the timing/holiday, were good IMO. I thought for a Wednesday night before Thanksgiving that can be a travel mess was good. the final for the WAC: 103 (not kidding) Big Sky: 528 MAC: 2148 hosted by the home school Big East: 701 SunBelt: 250 Big West: 2137 the BWCT should not be about making money, it shouldn'tz, nore should it be some huge drain. it may some day make a lot of money if Beach, SB, Irvine, Poly, SD keep getting better and grow fan bases and you get two or 3 top 25 teams in the semis, there will be close to full houses like MVB. if the goal is soley money, they shouldn't have it. I doubt it's a huge drain, likely operates at some loss, and even money probably at best. Hard to guess what Outrigger kicked in, or Hercules Tire does for basketball. At $15 avg ticket for 4500 fans, that would be $70,000 in ticket revenue or so. I know Long Beach parking was likely the big winner revenue wise lol. no extra cost, no manpower required, and probably netted them $15 or $20k or so! Parking always jacks the fans, lol. I do know the atmosphere was better than Vegas for Basketball. agree it would be interesting to have the numbers, the league has them. doubt they share them to the average audience, the ADs will know, as it's the ADs that will either continue or discontinue a BWCT. in the end, the BWCT will grow only to the extent that the top tier teams continue to improve to the point of going from 1 or 2 top 50 teams to 3-4 top 50 teams and 1-2 top 25 teams, which would drive more interest, more attendance, and more $$. Mabye that will happen, maybe this year represents what can be maxed out. we'll see. and that was the point of having a BWCT, drive intereset, which it did. Otherwise, the season would have been over essentially on November 11, when SB clinched. Pyramid capacity - 4,200 (NCAA Stats) Finals match attendance - 2,100 (T. Hildebrand post-match interview) Finals match paid attendance - 2,237 (NCAA Stats) Me: "...half capacity for the final." You: "Charactizing the attendance as 'half-empty' ? lol." Yes, half-capacity. Would you prefer half-full? Either way, I'll not characterize it as good or bad. And while I personally was disappointed with the finals attendance by Beach fans and 'other', the usual Hawai'i contingent showed up strong. And that was enjoyable. I've no way of knowing what attendance they expected, or needed to judge it a financial success/failure or a brand building success/failure. If they planned for losses, were they within budget? TBD. Did they turn a profit? TBD. Will they open the books with a public report, breaking out expenses, income streams, and the same for attending programs? TBD, but doubtful. Will they attempt to learn lessons from the BWCT and publicize those? TBD, but doubtful. I've been pro-tournament. But it's a mixed bag of pros and cons. I appreciate that a tournament with the right format can be helpful to some teams with at-large chances, and if they grab an AQ it can help them with better bracketing. In that regard the BWCT can be more pros than cons, most years. But some years it will backfire. It nearly backfired on UCSB this year. I see the points from volleyguy and he makes some good ones. But I'm on the side that the BWCT is worth a shot to see if the pros can outweigh the cons. However, everyone must stay open to learning lessons and working cooperatively IOT iteratively maximize the pros and minimize the cons. Including changes to format and schedule. First, it's axiomatic that the tournament existence took away the AQ that UCSB would have earned in the past. Then it gave five other teams a chance to steal the AQ away. Their consolation prize was #1 seed and a bye in the BWCT. The team UCSB had to face in the semis was the host team, with their home court advantage. Their early exit from the tournament it turned out did not help their RPI or KPI. It was their 'luck' then that Hawai'i won the final and sneaked into the top 50. If Beach had won the final, that would have been greater disaster to their 'profile'. But even picking up two top 50's didn't help them much if at all with this selection committee. They valued a strong SOS. They obviously saw on the UCSB nitty gritty a relatively weak SOS, their best win Iowa St., a very bad loss to UC Irvine, and a very big stinking turd of an early round exit from the BWCT, and a very weak BWC RPI ranked at #19. The result is the BWCT hurt the 'profile' of UCSB more than it helped. This committee gave more weight to teams that 'took care of business', with some recency bias thrown in. And clearly didn't like a relatively weak SOS, especially if there were any bad losses, which by chance put UCSB in their cross-hairs and into a last-four in nail biter. I've made a case that 'right-size' for a BWCT is probably four teams not six, given the current strength of BW teams, and that more than that invites in teams with RPI in the 'bad loss' category. A four team tournament is also easier to fit into that last week, and could avoid a Saturday final that's late in the evening just prior to the committee making cursory changes the next morning with just hours left to prep for the selection show. Four would cost less than six, and would likely capture most of the attendance and revenue of six. But six is what we've got, and it will likely be that for a few more years. I think you are making too much on the profile of U getting hurt. It's hard to say exactly how it affected their view from the committee. Having SFA in the NCAAs makes it hard to much about them other than to get a Big West member associated with the committee like SFA did. There is a paucity from the committee, what there is suggests RPI was emphasized. again collectively the tournament will improve RPIs for the top 6 teams, unless the conference getsworse and becomes a conference becomes worse with only 3 or 4 teams having winning records. and yes the reg season champ probably will stand the higher probability to take a hit. The trade-off of statistically getting more bids vs. the drawback of the reg season champ getting 'screwed' is the trade-off, there's no way around it. More bids is better than fewer is the bottom line. Same for the Mountain West. as to 4 vs. 6, that's been debated. I like 6 for prior stated reasons, even though not 'optimal', to me it's a good commpromise, it does actually provide more value to finish in the top 2 to avoid an extra match, would be less so the advantage with only 4, at the expense of less RPI benefit. to me, the #1 item is the dates/timing, and still not sure if earlier is better. hopefully the conference is able to use the data from this tournament to improve, not sure the Big West will be able to do that, we shall see. I think it can get to be like the MVB tournament. |
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Post by hapaguy on Nov 27, 2023 20:26:35 GMT -5
LOL I understand why no BW coach would want the tourney played here annually. It's more my wish and probably most Hawaii fans wish. Financially (like you said, it "is a business trip") it would make the most sense though as the tourney would be a sellout every year. Also, I never said Hawaii was a neutral site LOL. Why do you think the Dollar Loan Center a non-starter? Finances? The Basketball tournament crowds in Vegas aren't even the same as what the BWCT Volleyball drew this year. the Dollar Center is nice, it's perfect size. for those that think the Volleyball BWCT attendance wasn't 'good', I give you the Basketball tournament. I suspect the Big West got a subsidy of sorts as in 2022 the BWCT was the very first event at the Dollar Center, and was part of promoting the opening. Maybe not. We'll see in a couple years if that continues. I find it hard to believe unless a) they have a significant sponsor (Hercules for now) or b) attendance doubles (doubtful), it'll continue in Vegas as nice a venue as Dollar is. what is great about the Dollar is I can buy the least priced and worst ticket, and literally find a great seat in the 2nd or 3rd row. It's like going to a Northridge game, a great venue to see the game as close as possible! how that shows on TV isn't too good, showing an 87 year old fan, with about 6 others spread across the entire screen doesn't project very well for the conference. what they do if they go back to SoCal, I suspect they would look like Volleyball at rotating it as well. The MBB would actually end up around 80-90% full for semis and finals if held at Pyramid or Bren. It drew 5k to 6k at the HOnda. The captive SoCal fans that are within driving distance is what supports attendance at the BW tournaments. All but 3 schools (Poly, Davis, Hawaii) within 2 hours, and Hawaii/Poly with sizeable alumni in SoCal. We are not a 'destination' driven conference, and won't be until there are multiple top 10/25 teams in sports. Fair enough. I would make one point though: Las Vegas is known as the "Ninth Island" for a reason as there is a huge population of Hawaii expats that live there. Basketball is not very big in Hawaii (both women and mens volleyball draw double the crowds at the Stan Sheriff Center than bball) so it's not a surprise that the BW Men's Bball tourney was not much of a draw for Hawaii fans. If Dollar Loan Center hosts the BW Women's Volleyball Tourney I am sure that the Hawaii expats living in Las Vegas and SoCal would attend and it would be a much larger draw than men's bball... |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Nov 27, 2023 21:02:31 GMT -5
The Basketball tournament crowds in Vegas aren't even the same as what the BWCT Volleyball drew this year. the Dollar Center is nice, it's perfect size. for those that think the Volleyball BWCT attendance wasn't 'good', I give you the Basketball tournament. I suspect the Big West got a subsidy of sorts as in 2022 the BWCT was the very first event at the Dollar Center, and was part of promoting the opening. Maybe not. We'll see in a couple years if that continues. I find it hard to believe unless a) they have a significant sponsor (Hercules for now) or b) attendance doubles (doubtful), it'll continue in Vegas as nice a venue as Dollar is. what is great about the Dollar is I can buy the least priced and worst ticket, and literally find a great seat in the 2nd or 3rd row. It's like going to a Northridge game, a great venue to see the game as close as possible! how that shows on TV isn't too good, showing an 87 year old fan, with about 6 others spread across the entire screen doesn't project very well for the conference. what they do if they go back to SoCal, I suspect they would look like Volleyball at rotating it as well. The MBB would actually end up around 80-90% full for semis and finals if held at Pyramid or Bren. It drew 5k to 6k at the HOnda. The captive SoCal fans that are within driving distance is what supports attendance at the BW tournaments. All but 3 schools (Poly, Davis, Hawaii) within 2 hours, and Hawaii/Poly with sizeable alumni in SoCal. We are not a 'destination' driven conference, and won't be until there are multiple top 10/25 teams in sports. Fair enough. I would make one point though: Las Vegas is known as the "Ninth Island" for a reason as there is a huge population of Hawaii expats that live there. Basketball is not very big in Hawaii (both women and mens volleyball draw double the crowds at the Stan Sheriff Center than bball) so it's not a surprise that the BW Men's Bball tourney was not much of a draw for Hawaii fans. If Dollar Loan Center hosts the BW Women's Volleyball Tourney I am sure that the Hawaii expats living in Las Vegas and SoCal would attend and it would be a much larger draw than men's bball... fair enough but if the primary reason is Hawaii, hell just hold it in Hawaii which would only more defacto extra home game sfor Hawaii anyway yes, Hawaii has been the biggest fan base in the games I've been at at the Dollar. it's great they bring the Band and Cheer that's always great and good fans except for the ones waving palm leaves about. still not as many as were in the PYramid VB, or would be at the Honda. bottom line for Vegas is it is a 5 hour drive or more for 100% of the Big West fan base. Bren or Pyrmaid is like within 75-80% of the Big West fan base for driving. It's not rocket science and sure the conference understands that. I think if the commish can keep the MBB touranment subsidized in Vegas without a loss, maybe they'll stay. However, I think the conference would actually make money and have close to packed houses if MBB tourney was held at the Pyramid or Bren, and had also had a good finals ticket resale plan in place, and get 4 times the fans they do in Vegas. I'm guessing the conference sells about 50-100 advance tickets for the basketball BWCT per team in Vegas, and can then gets some amount of walk up sales for the finals. It's a morgue in there for the quarters, not much more for the semis. Poly-Davis was a better atmosphere than any quarterfinal that's taken place in the Dollar. Nothing was even remotely close to Beach-Irvine. The BWCT VB was more packed and vibrant than the basketball in Vegas. enough said that Poly - NOrth MBB n 2014 drew about 3500 for a 5-7 seed atch-up for one team that didn't have a big base and another 250 miles away is pretty instructive. It was probably 2500+ walk up sales. that won't happen in Vegas for the best teams. SoCal can deliver walk up fans for these finals events in Socal, maybe not 10k, but enough to make a 5000 seat arena 'full' or close for basketball and if the teams keep improving at the top, they'll get closer in VB. |
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. I know there is a way but it would not pass the vote.....
