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Post by JJVb on Jul 28, 2023 18:33:31 GMT -5
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Post by brooselee on Jul 28, 2023 18:46:20 GMT -5
I do wonder if this is parody. South Florida and Memphis? If wonder if this list is even true. No school want to tell the world that they want out. Make them look desperate. Would be a slap in the face to all these team that “applied”: if the PAC 12 choses a school not on the list.
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Post by gr8lakes on Jul 28, 2023 18:59:22 GMT -5
Cal and Stanford probably think of schools like Fresno State, SDSU and UNLV as beneath them. I wonder if they have been blocking expansion.
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 28, 2023 19:14:04 GMT -5
I do wonder if this is parody. South Florida and Memphis? If wonder if this list is even true. No school want to tell the world that they want out. Make them look desperate. Would be a slap in the face to all these team that “applied”: if the PAC 12 choses a school not on the list. So a decade ago when the old Big East was falling apart, Boise State, San Diego State, and Air Force accepted invitations to join as football-only members. BYU nearly accepted the invitation too, but there was some dispute over TV rights. A P5 (or P6 back then) label is attractive even in a diminished conference. Granted that did not work out for those schools, as they all ended up back in the Mountain West. But I'm not surprised the Pac-12 is getting interest.
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Post by tomclen on Jul 29, 2023 6:44:56 GMT -5
More than Scott, certainly more than Kliavkoff, you can put a signifcant portion of the blame for the demise of the PAC on USC. Between the Reggie Bush scandal and Donna-gate, USC was so busy cheating and grifting for fortune, they sank the entire conference.
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Post by baytree on Jul 29, 2023 8:48:59 GMT -5
More than Scott, certainly more than Kliavkoff, you can put a signifcant portion of the blame for the demise of the PAC on USC. Between the Reggie Bush scandal and Donna-gate, USC was so busy cheating and grifting for fortune, they sank the entire conference. I remember ppl talking about that meeting last summer, a bit after USC left the PAC. I was so pissed off bc, contrary to USC's portrayal, Kliavkoff and the other university presidents were deferring to USC and trying to keep them happy. We did not brush off Big XII teams bc we are a bunch of snobs, we did it bc that's what USC wanted. USC knew that ppl were sucking up to them so why didn't they demand a bigger cut before they left? It seemed like the rest of the PAC was shocked when USC left, which would not have happened if USC had been clear that they wouldn't stay without a bigger cut. Then, reportedly, USC said they did not want anyone else (besides UCLA) to go from the PAC to the B1G, which seems like another way to stab us on the way out. I's still pissed at USC. It is like they tried to cause as much damage to other PAC teams as possible.
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Post by tomclen on Jul 29, 2023 9:30:38 GMT -5
Funny take:
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 29, 2023 10:25:04 GMT -5
I think blaming USC is pointless. They are who they are--by far the most valuable school in the conference who got sick of subsidizing the others. The Big 12 managed to survive the loss of effectively two USCs with good leadership. The Pac-12's failures are on its commissioners and presidents.
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 29, 2023 10:27:47 GMT -5
Regarding Kliavkoff, I was never sold on this guy from the beginning, especially when he reportedly asked ESPN for $500 million per year in the early negotiations. The Pac-12 fans on Reddit have mostly turned on him, as a lot of them are now referring to him as "Costanzakoff."
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Post by baytree on Jul 29, 2023 10:34:22 GMT -5
Regarding Kliavkoff, I was never sold on this guy from the beginning, especially when he reportedly asked ESPN for $500 million per year in the early negotiations. The Pac-12 fans on Reddit have mostly turned on him, as a lot of them are now referring to him as "Costanzakoff." I don't understand why ppl are so upset about this. You always ask for more than you think you can get. If he asked for, e.g., 400m, it only lowers the ceiling to maybe ~300m. Do ppl expect him to ask for close to what he thinks he will get?
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 29, 2023 10:47:41 GMT -5
Regarding Kliavkoff, I was never sold on this guy from the beginning, especially when he reportedly asked ESPN for $500 million per year in the early negotiations. The Pac-12 fans on Reddit have mostly turned on him, as a lot of them are now referring to him as "Costanzakoff." I don't understand why ppl are so upset about this. You always ask for more than you think you can get. If he asked for, e.g., 400m, it only lowers the ceiling to maybe ~300m. Do ppl expect him to ask for close to what he thinks he will get? The asking price was so ridiculous that ESPN no longer took him seriously as a negotiator and quickly moved on to the Big 12. I mean, look at the situation they're in now. Even before Colorado left, the rumor was that the offers were in the $20 million per school range with a ton of streaming. Edit: when I first heard this, the report was that ESPN laughed Kliavkoff out of the room. If someone offered me a job, and we were negotiating on salary, they would probably lose interest if I asked for $1 million per year when the average salary for similar jobs is $80,000.
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Post by baytree on Jul 29, 2023 11:07:09 GMT -5
I don't understand why ppl are so upset about this. You always ask for more than you think you can get. If he asked for, e.g., 400m, it only lowers the ceiling to maybe ~300m. Do ppl expect him to ask for close to what he thinks he will get? The asking price was so ridiculous that ESPN no longer took him seriously as a negotiator and quickly moved on to the Big 12. I mean, look at the situation they're in now. Even before Colorado left, the rumor was that the offers were in the $20 million range with a ton of streaming. Edit: when I first heard this, the report was that ESPN laughed Kliavkoff out of the room. If someone offered me a job, and we were negotiating on salary, they would probably quickly lose interest if I asked for $1 million per year when the average salary for the job is $80,000. If the realistic price is 300m, I don't think 500m is an unreasonable starting offer. It is high but just counter w something low. It seems like last summer, most ppl expected around 300m or slightly more. The analogy is more if you asked for 130k when the average was 80k but the top end was 150k. Unless you are at the top end (and PAC is not), you are not going to get 130k but asking for more than 80k (assuming you are average, with unique properties that may make you more valuable to the employer or may not) is reasonable IMO. You don't know how valuable things like the west coast time zone are to espn unless you ask. I understand the high ask signaled that ESPN and the PAC were far apart but I'm surprised that it led espn to walk away instead of saying that they were far apart and countering w something low (so that what espn thinks is reasonable is in the middle). If Kliavkoff and the college presidents really expected 500m, they were badly misinformed. Maybe they were but, to me, it seems like more of negotiating tactic to try to find out how much value the late time slots (and Oregon and Washington) had to espn. It seems like it was much less than the PAC hoped/expected.
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Post by dbro1970 on Jul 29, 2023 11:11:27 GMT -5
1 yes. 2. No. 3. No. 4. Washington. 5. No
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 29, 2023 13:16:47 GMT -5
The asking price was so ridiculous that ESPN no longer took him seriously as a negotiator and quickly moved on to the Big 12. I mean, look at the situation they're in now. Even before Colorado left, the rumor was that the offers were in the $20 million range with a ton of streaming. Edit: when I first heard this, the report was that ESPN laughed Kliavkoff out of the room. If someone offered me a job, and we were negotiating on salary, they would probably quickly lose interest if I asked for $1 million per year when the average salary for the job is $80,000. If the realistic price is 300m, I don't think 500m is an unreasonable starting offer. It is high but just counter w something low. It seems like last summer, most ppl expected around 300m or slightly more. The analogy is more if you asked for 130k when the average was 80k but the top end was 150k. Unless you are at the top end (and PAC is not), you are not going to get 130k but asking for more than 80k (assuming you are average, with unique properties that may make you more valuable to the employer or may not) is reasonable IMO. You don't know how valuable things like the west coast time zone are to espn unless you ask. I understand the high ask signaled that ESPN and the PAC were far apart but I'm surprised that it led espn to walk away instead of saying that they were far apart and countering w something low (so that what espn thinks is reasonable is in the middle). If Kliavkoff and the college presidents really expected 500m, they were badly misinformed. Maybe they were but, to me, it seems like more of negotiating tactic to try to find out how much value the late time slots (and Oregon and Washington) had to espn. It seems like it was much less than the PAC hoped/expected. Fair enough. I just threw out $1 million as an obviously ridiculous number, but let's use your numbers. Suppose I ask for $130K, and the the employer counters with $85K and makes it clear that they can't go much higher. I stick at $130K or maybe drop just a little to like $125K and refuse to go lower. We go back and forth for a couple months but never get close enough to make a deal. If I was the only candidate capable of doing the job, this might actually work. But what if there was another candidate who is the second choice but can do the job nearly as well and is only asking for $90K? And the employer offers them $85K, and they decide to take it because they need job security, even if it's a bit lower than what they wanted. That seems to be what happened. The Pac-12 had an exclusive negotiating window with ESPN (and Fox, but they made it clear immediately that they weren't interested unless the price was really low) for what appears to be three months (opened in early July 2022 and closed in early October 2022). That should have been enough time for them to agree with ESPN on a number if the sides were at all close on their offers. But the Pac-12 decided that they were worth more than whatever ESPN was offering and took their chances on the open market. Meanwhile, the Big 12 opened its exclusive negotiating window in early September 2022 and had a deal in place by the end of October 2022. I think the reason they succeeded where the Pac-12 failed was better leadership and a more realistic valuation of itself.
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 29, 2023 15:28:20 GMT -5
More than Scott, certainly more than Kliavkoff, you can put a signifcant portion of the blame for the demise of the PAC on USC. Between the Reggie Bush scandal and Donna-gate, USC was so busy cheating and grifting for fortune, they sank the entire conference. The Reggie Bush episode was a joke. The NCAA wanted to go after USC and found an excuse, and subsequently looked really petty for doing it. Donna Heinel was a black-eye that was allowed to happen because she didn't matter. She had nothing to do with football or basketball. The PAC12 commissioner and presidents failed USC repeatedly for years, blowing their window to monetize the league properly forced USC and UCLA to look elsewhere. It should never have happened, but it was years in the making and not their fault.
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