bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 12,962
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Post by bluepenquin on Aug 1, 2023 7:34:11 GMT -5
I'm hearing Oregon is gone. Eugene is locked up tighter than Fort Knox, so this is either (1) bull$h!t or (2) very, very, very done. You thinking they have a Big Ten option? I guess they could go independent, but why do that now? B12 seems unlikely. There is no way they are sticking around for $20M.
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Post by horns1 on Aug 1, 2023 7:42:15 GMT -5
I'm hearing Oregon is gone. Eugene is locked up tighter than Fort Knox, so this is either (1) bull$h!t or (2) very, very, very done. Gone where?
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Post by VolleyballFella on Aug 1, 2023 9:54:05 GMT -5
I don't think there's any question that Colorado's move to the Pac-12 didn't work out well for them in basically anything. They were the biggest P5 --> P5 loser in the last round of realignment. I think this is one of the main reasons that they were the first to leave after USC bounced last summer. In Football, yes... it didn't work out well overall in the PAC-12. However, Colorado was the 9th best school in athletics in the PAC-12 over the course of those 12 years -- ahead of WSU, OSU, and Utah (according to the Directors Cup that is widely used & that includes getting dinged for not having a Baseball team). Also, CU regularly averaged around 50th in the Directors Cup out of ~300 D1 schools. That is a Top Tier Athletic program when comparing to all of D1 (again, that includes getting dinged for not having a baseball team). COLORADO WHILE IN THE PAC-12
- Mens & Womens NCAA Cross-Country Championships - NCAA Skiing Championship - 2016 PAC-South Football Champions with a 10-2 Regular season record and Top 20 final ranking - Multiple Mens & Womens XC PAC-12 Championships - Womens Lacrosse: PAC-12 Champions & Regularly Top 25 ranked - Mens BB: Made the NCAA Tournament basically half those PAC years & won the PAC Mens Tourney one year. - Womens BB: NCAA Sweet 16 last year - Womens VB: NCAA Sweet 16 in 2017. Multiple NCAA Tournaments while in the PAC-12 - Other sports were regularly Top 25 ranked teams during their seasons and regularly made their NCAA Tourney too (i.e. womens soccer, indoor Track) The PAC-12 has definitely been poorly managed AND it didn't treat Colorado well in many aspects (scheduling, coverage, etc, etc), but it STILL was the best overall sports conference in the nation and it would be difficult for ANY school to compete in. It produced more NCAA Champions than any other conference (by far) during the PAC-12 reign (and Colorado helped with that).
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 1, 2023 10:15:50 GMT -5
I don't think there's any question that Colorado's move to the Pac-12 didn't work out well for them in basically anything. They were the biggest P5 --> P5 loser in the last round of realignment. I think this is one of the main reasons that they were the first to leave after USC bounced last summer. In Football, yes... it didn't work out well overall in the PAC-12. However, Colorado was the 9th best school in athletics in the PAC-12 over the course of those 12 years -- ahead of WSU, OSU, and Utah (according to the Directors Cup that is widely used & that includes getting dinged for not having a Baseball team). Also, CU regularly averaged around 50th in the Directors Cup out of ~300 D1 schools. That is a Top Tier Athletic program when comparing to all of D1 (again, that includes getting dinged for not having a baseball team). COLORADO WHILE IN THE PAC-12
- Mens & Womens NCAA Cross-Country Championships - NCAA Skiing Championship - 2016 PAC-South Football Champions with a 10-2 Regular season record and Top 20 final ranking - Multiple Mens & Womens XC PAC-12 Championships - Womens Lacrosse PAC-12 Champions - CU Mens Basketball made the NCAA Tournament basically half those PAC years & won the PAC Mens Tourney one year. - Womens BB - NCAA Sweet 16 last year - Womens VB - NCAA Sweet 16 in 2017 - Many sports were regularly Top 25 ranked teams during their seasons (womens soccer, etc...) The PAC-12 has definitely been poorly managed AND it didn't treat Colorado well in many aspects (scheduling, coverage, etc, etc), but it STILL was the best overall sports conference in the nation and it would be difficult for ANY school to compete in. It produced more NCAA Champions than any other conference (by far) during the PAC-12 reign (and Colorado helped with that). I mean, I don't think being in the Pac-12 is the reason Colorado was winning skiing and cross country national titles.
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Post by boxcariii on Aug 1, 2023 10:20:03 GMT -5
Gone where? That book made me mad. Neither of them had any redeeming qualities. It's a pity either of them survived. I liked that it was different, but talk about two awful human beings.
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Post by VolleyballFella on Aug 1, 2023 10:20:29 GMT -5
In Football, yes... it didn't work out well overall in the PAC-12. However, Colorado was the 9th best school in athletics in the PAC-12 over the course of those 12 years -- ahead of WSU, OSU, and Utah (according to the Directors Cup that is widely used & that includes getting dinged for not having a Baseball team). Also, CU regularly averaged around 50th in the Directors Cup out of ~300 D1 schools. That is a Top Tier Athletic program when comparing to all of D1 (again, that includes getting dinged for not having a baseball team). COLORADO WHILE IN THE PAC-12
- Mens & Womens NCAA Cross-Country Championships - NCAA Skiing Championship - 2016 PAC-South Football Champions with a 10-2 Regular season record and Top 20 final ranking - Multiple Mens & Womens XC PAC-12 Championships - Womens Lacrosse PAC-12 Champions - CU Mens Basketball made the NCAA Tournament basically half those PAC years & won the PAC Mens Tourney one year. - Womens BB - NCAA Sweet 16 last year - Womens VB - NCAA Sweet 16 in 2017 - Many sports were regularly Top 25 ranked teams during their seasons (womens soccer, etc...) The PAC-12 has definitely been poorly managed AND it didn't treat Colorado well in many aspects (scheduling, coverage, etc, etc), but it STILL was the best overall sports conference in the nation and it would be difficult for ANY school to compete in. It produced more NCAA Champions than any other conference (by far) during the PAC-12 reign (and Colorado helped with that). I mean, I don't think being in the Pac-12 is the reason Colorado was winning skiing and cross country titles. Correct. CU was winning those before the PAC-12, so maybe they still won them DESPITE the PAC-12. However, conference foes like Stanford have been bigger cross-country powerhouses than they had before in the Big-12 to get some of those PAC championships.
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 1, 2023 10:35:37 GMT -5
I mean, I don't think being in the Pac-12 is the reason Colorado was winning skiing and cross country titles. Correct. CU was winning those before the PAC-12, so maybe they still won them DESPITE the PAC-12. However, conference foes like Stanford have been bigger cross-country powerhouses than they had before in the Big-12 to get some of those PAC championships. Hmm, being a Colorado fan, you probably know that cross country is different than other sports. Your region is often more indicative than your conference for national titles (though you can win from any region). Colorado is in the very deep Mountain region (New Mexico, BYU, Northern Arizona, etc.). For conference titles, you're right. In addition to Stanford, there was Oregon too. Not sure who else. I think Washington was pretty good at times during that era. Edit: Just to clarify, I don't think the truly elite cross country teams really care about any meet except nationals. I'd so it goes: 1. Nationals <Big Gap> 2. Nuttycombe/Pre-nats 3. Conference 4. Regional (the elite teams usually have enough points that they don't need to worry about getting an auto-bid--regionals matter more for bubble teams) 5. Other meets It is very, very common for teams to rest their best runners at any meet except nationals.
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Post by tomclen on Aug 1, 2023 12:54:17 GMT -5
Gonna have to wait a little longer
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Post by JJVb on Aug 1, 2023 15:32:15 GMT -5
Gonna have to wait a little longer Keep waiting and waiting..
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Post by brooselee on Aug 1, 2023 15:46:50 GMT -5
Kliavkoff is on his knees begging for teams to save the conference and his reputation. Not sure what he can do to sweeten the pot but after months and months of negotiations, there is really no other avenue to turn to. This thing should not have taken so long and dragged thru the finish line like this. Apple’s revenue is based in increased subscriptions so there is no way Apple will take that out of the contracts. ABC/ESPN, CBS, FOX, etc…all have very deep pockets and can overpay. There is no way for Apple to match the money offered by these networks. Money is definitely going to have to be tied to some form of subscription increase…either by each school or by the conference high ups. What if every teams in the conference name their stadium Apple? Tucson Apple Stadium, Corvallis Apple Stadium, Stanford Apple Stadium, etc….
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Post by tomclen on Aug 1, 2023 16:16:51 GMT -5
Kliavkoff is on his knees begging for teams to save the conference and his reputation. Not sure what he can do to sweeten the pot but after months and months of negotiations, there is really no other avenue to turn to. This thing should not have taken so long and dragged thru the finish line like this. Apple’s revenue is based in increased subscriptions so there is no way Apple will take that out of the contracts. ABC/ESPN, CBS, FOX, etc…all have very deep pockets and can overpay. There is no way for Apple to match the money offered by these networks. Money is definitely going to have to be tied to some form of subscription increase…either by each school or by the conference high ups. What if every teams in the conference name their stadium Apple? Tucson Apple Stadium, Corvallis Apple Stadium, Stanford Apple Stadium, etc…. The Washington schools could do the Apple Cup.
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Post by HawaiiVB on Aug 1, 2023 16:33:15 GMT -5
I'm not confused, but the ultimate deciders on who to let in will have a list of criteria to guide them. So I don't know why people speculate on whose in or whose out. From the gluttony of sports writers/bloggers/insiders that I have seen chime in, you got TV market matters, or football results matter, or academics matter, or alumni support matters, or geography matters. Nobody knows until it's known. They (the pac 12) can justify whatever reason they let one school in over another even if the rejected school lists multiple facts why they would fit in more than the chosen schools.
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Post by brooselee on Aug 1, 2023 16:37:11 GMT -5
Well….the UA board is supposed to hold a meeting at this hour along with ASU and Norther Arizona. If the PAC 12 deal cannot be sealed before this meeting. I don’t see UA staying. The PAC12 have had months to get this done. Today should be the straw that breaks the camels back.
The media day was supposed to be the day the deal get revealed. They pushed it back and they ended up with this?
Enough should be enough.
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Post by brooselee on Aug 1, 2023 17:00:50 GMT -5
Half the day is over and still no agreement. What else is there to negotiate unless Kliavkoff is calling ESPN to see if they are considering coming back to the table?
I doubt ESPN will offer anything significant. If TV is the sticking point , then TV partner is what Kliavkoff is probably scrambling on now. Wonder how many will bite.
The 4 corner schools have options so they don’t have to settle for less. Others might not have much option so may settle but schools like OU and UW doesn’t want to be locked in long terms so they won’t sign on. If the corner schools bail, then it will again alter the deal and might need to continue to negotiate….now without the 4 corner schools.
It’s definitely a sh$t show now.
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 12,962
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Post by bluepenquin on Aug 1, 2023 17:09:10 GMT -5
Well….the UA board is supposed to hold a meeting at this hour along with ASU and Norther Arizona. If the PAC 12 deal cannot be sealed before this meeting. I don’t see UA staying. The PAC12 have had months to get this done. Today should be the straw that breaks the camels back. The media day was supposed to be the day the deal get revealed. They pushed it back and they ended up with this? Enough should be enough. I doubt something happens today? There are plenty of hurdles here. 1) If Arizona leaves - that could effectively kill the PAC. Robbins (the President) has been reported to be potentially moving to Stanford. His personal ambitions may not align with the University he works for right now. He (and it appears everyone else) doesn't want to be the person that kills the PAC. 2) Arizona Regents are responsible for both Arizona and Arizona State (and Northern Arizona). Arizona may be tied to Arizona State - which could end up leaving both behind (or may get ASU in the door). 3) The B12 has publicly said they are stopping at 14 for now - which would imply that there isn't room for both Arizona and Arizona State. Now, do they combined have enough power to get both into the B12 - and 'force' the B12 to 16 schools instead of 14? Arizona may not have an invite to the B12 if they (and the regents) insist on ASU following them. 4) Arizona may still think the PAC is salvageable and want to stay and take a chance on those Apple Subscription $'s.
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