|
Post by n00b on Aug 5, 2023 10:04:04 GMT -5
So what was the biggest issue for the Pac-12? I know everyone is saying TV deal but was it bad leadership? Was this just the ultimate outcome with UCLA and USC decided to leave? They should have picked up 2 teams real fast. Colorado was afraid to get left out and once they jumped ship everything started falling. I think it’s twofold. People who live on the west coast clearly aren’t as invested in college sports as those who live in the Midwest and southeast. That’s going to mean fewer people attending games and fewer people watching games on TV. The presidents (not the conference commissioners in my opinion) weren’t willing to affiliate with (a) religious schools or (b) schools they thought were beneath them in prestige. So when the Big 12 lost Texas and Oklahoma, they aggressively pursued the next best schools even if they were a tier below. The PAC-12’s response was to not move and hope for the best. Again, I think this is the presidents, not the commissioners that were unwilling to add schools like BYU, UNLV, SMU and San Diego State.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Aug 5, 2023 10:07:34 GMT -5
The Big West has 11 public schools, 10 of which are from California. Would that be a good fit for Cal? And football plays as an independent. Stanford is harder. The WCC is at 9 teams so they could easily take 1 more, but is that a fit? And does this help or hurt the MPSF? Oregon St and Washington St fit the MWC. They are going to need to cut about $25 million in expenses so lots of coaches not getting renewed, but I think they have a suitable fit. Stanford is not a WCC fit. WCC is religious, and not really all that high academically. Stanford fits one other conference other than B1G. Ivy League. Cal does fit the Big West, now of course, they'd have no desire to be in it. On the other hand, if Cal gets UCLA money, and reduces operating costs to Big West standards, it might not be bad other than they are screweed for football. I think there's a possibility Cal just gives up on sports, period, if they can't get in the B1G. Just make a write off and leave the rat race I don't think OSU, WSU really do all that much for the Mountain West, a nice add. Now if they could convince Cal & Stanford, the Mountain West would proably be able to up their mediia, not huge, but it would help probably all moot, the B1G will probable make a pity offer at lower amounts to the B1G. would be great for the BIg West to add at least Cal, and in the abstract, Cal fits and also helps with another NorCal. Stanford would never go t the Big West, but you never know. I think Stanford indpependent in football and Olympic in Big West with Cal is so far fetched. I just don't see Stanford and Cal in the WCC though, but you never know. The other thing I've heard floated is that Stanford and Cal might recruit the other UCs in the Big West and have an academic California conference. That new conference would have seven schools, which is enough. And they can either go independent in football or just drop it.
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Aug 5, 2023 10:09:59 GMT -5
Money = overall fan interest. If you believe that money is killing college sports, what you are really saying is increased fan interest is killing college sports. Now - I think a better argument would be that college football is killing the other college sports. I don't totally agree with this, but I can see that argument. Exactly, everyone says they hate where college sports is going but keep watching. Stop watching and attending and it will go back to intramural activities between universities. I don't know who all these people are that watch all that much D1 football, it's not interesting to me. especieally now with Pac 12 teams in a professional sports conference. If I want pro football, there's the NFL, and even that is an industrialized product flag football passing game now. D1 is just an amateur act with bands and cheerleaders now, with pigs like Alabama and Ohio State et. al. that aren't interesting. Obviously an Olympic sports fan like me doesn't matter. I've never watched a Rutgers or Maryland football game, won't start now. Alabama, Texas, et. all. nah. I would watch some Pac-12 teams, but it'll be less now. Michigan State vs. USC/Oregon isn't interesting to me. I have ties to UCLA, so had some interest, but that'll wane even more. I hope for implosion in the media for football after all this. like really, there's more gambling and booze money and tailgating largesse that can grow and will be even better than before? lol the Big 12. who the heck is even in it?
|
|
|
Post by huskersrule95 on Aug 5, 2023 10:11:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Aug 5, 2023 10:14:57 GMT -5
Stanford is not a WCC fit. WCC is religious, and not really all that high academically. Stanford fits one other conference other than B1G. Ivy League. Cal does fit the Big West, now of course, they'd have no desire to be in it. On the other hand, if Cal gets UCLA money, and reduces operating costs to Big West standards, it might not be bad other than they are screweed for football. I think there's a possibility Cal just gives up on sports, period, if they can't get in the B1G. Just make a write off and leave the rat race I don't think OSU, WSU really do all that much for the Mountain West, a nice add. Now if they could convince Cal & Stanford, the Mountain West would proably be able to up their mediia, not huge, but it would help probably all moot, the B1G will probable make a pity offer at lower amounts to the B1G. would be great for the BIg West to add at least Cal, and in the abstract, Cal fits and also helps with another NorCal. Stanford would never go t the Big West, but you never know. I think Stanford indpependent in football and Olympic in Big West with Cal is so far fetched. I just don't see Stanford and Cal in the WCC though, but you never know. The other thing I've heard floated is that Stanford and Cal might recruit the other UCs in the Big West and have an academic California conference. That new conference would have seven schools, which is enough. And they can either go independent in football or just drop it. would be interesting where that came from. that's likely not in Davis, UCI, UCSD, UCSB interest. it would be a conference that would lack stability, still doesn't have football. but you never know. Unfortunately for that idea, the Big West UCs would have huge political issue to associate with Stanford, who is not a UC. It's more likely the Big West would invite Cal and not Stanford. It's too bad the Big West added Bake, which was a disaster for the conference, Bake added nothing and even dropped a number of Big West sports (how in hades were they permitted to join while dropping Big West sports was dereliction).
|
|
|
Post by redcard🏐 on Aug 5, 2023 10:20:59 GMT -5
Exactly, everyone says they hate where college sports is going but keep watching. Stop watching and attending and it will go back to intramural activities between universities. I don't know who all these people are that watch all that much D1 football, it's not interesting to me. especieally now with Pac 12 teams in a professional sports conference. If I want pro football, there's the NFL, and even that is an industrialized product flag football passing game now. D1 is just an amateur act with bands and cheerleaders now, with pigs like Alabama and Ohio State et. al. that aren't interesting. Obviously an Olympic sports fan like me doesn't matter. I've never watched a Rutgers or Maryland football game, won't start now. Alabama, Texas, et. all. nah. I would watch some Pac-12 teams, but it'll be less now. Michigan State vs. USC/Oregon isn't interesting to me. I have ties to UCLA, so had some interest, but that'll wane even more. I hope for implosion in the media for football after all this. like really, there's more gambling and booze money and tailgating largesse that can grow and will be even better than before? lol the Big 12. who the heck is even in it? 🙄
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Aug 5, 2023 10:23:13 GMT -5
The other thing I've heard floated is that Stanford and Cal might recruit the other UCs in the Big West and have an academic California conference. That new conference would have seven schools, which is enough. And they can either go independent in football or just drop it. would be interesting where that came from. that's likely not in Davis, UCI, UCSD, UCSB interest. it would be a conference that would lack stability, still doesn't have football. but you never know. Unfortunately for that idea, the Big West UCs would have huge political issue to associate with Stanford, who is not a UC. It's more likely the Big West would invite Cal and not Stanford. It's too bad the Big West added Bake, which was a disaster for the conference, Bake added nothing and even dropped a number of Big West sports (how in hades were they permitted to join while dropping Big West sports was dereliction). Not sure if it has any legs. It was just an idea I saw that seemed interesting. Also, I'm not sure I agree that the UCs would have an issue with associating with Stanford. I mean, Stanford was in the same conference as Cal and UCLA for over 100 years.
|
|
|
Post by BeachbytheBay on Aug 5, 2023 10:24:34 GMT -5
right now, the Pac-4 has to meet to discuss dissolution. That'll happen soon. They simply do not have a conference in 2024, and 2024 is approaching fast.
that's the reality.
I'm sure the Mountain West will meet to discuss providing offers to OSU & Wazzou, and maybe even Cal & Stanford. but they'd insitute hefty exit fees, as the Mountain West doesn't want to be a parking lot for those 4 who really want to be somewhere else.
|
|
|
Post by oldnewbie on Aug 5, 2023 10:42:59 GMT -5
So what was the biggest issue for the Pac-12? I know everyone is saying TV deal but was it bad leadership? Was this just the ultimate outcome with UCLA and USC decided to leave? They should have picked up 2 teams real fast. Colorado was afraid to get left out and once they jumped ship everything started falling. I think it’s twofold. People who live on the west coast clearly aren’t as invested in college sports as those who live in the Midwest and southeast. That’s going to mean fewer people attending games and fewer people watching games on TV. The presidents (not the conference commissioners in my opinion) weren’t willing to affiliate with (a) religious schools or (b) schools they thought were beneath them in prestige. So when the Big 12 lost Texas and Oklahoma, they aggressively pursued the next best schools even if they were a tier below. The PAC-12’s response was to not move and hope for the best. Again, I think this is the presidents, not the commissioners that were unwilling to add schools like BYU, UNLV, SMU and San Diego State. I heard a former usc assistant AD (now AD at a D2 school) interviewed. He said in the late 90's a sports director at NBC told him USC and UCLA were the anchor for the Pac12 and were most of what the networks cared about, and if they didn't stop pretending that all members were equal and take care of USC and UCLA, it wasn't sustainable. They couldn't go on paying WSU the same as USC, but they did.
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Aug 5, 2023 10:45:33 GMT -5
Stanford fits one other conference other than B1G. Ivy League. Stanford is not a fit for the Ivy League. They are not going to give up their athletic scholarships.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Aug 5, 2023 10:46:11 GMT -5
I think it’s twofold. People who live on the west coast clearly aren’t as invested in college sports as those who live in the Midwest and southeast. That’s going to mean fewer people attending games and fewer people watching games on TV. The presidents (not the conference commissioners in my opinion) weren’t willing to affiliate with (a) religious schools or (b) schools they thought were beneath them in prestige. So when the Big 12 lost Texas and Oklahoma, they aggressively pursued the next best schools even if they were a tier below. The PAC-12’s response was to not move and hope for the best. Again, I think this is the presidents, not the commissioners that were unwilling to add schools like BYU, UNLV, SMU and San Diego State. I heard a former usc assistant AD (now AD at a D2 school) interviewed. He said in the late 90's a sports director at NBC told him USC and UCLA were the anchor for the Pac12 and were most of what the networks cared about, and if they didn't stop pretending that all members were equal and take care of USC and UCLA, it wasn't sustainable. They couldn't go on paying WSU the same as USC, but they did. Not only that, but they added two other schools, which further diluted USC's share. I know they did that to play a conference championship game, but I doubt that whatever they made for that offset the two additional shares that those schools took out of the pie.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Aug 5, 2023 10:47:09 GMT -5
right now, the Pac-4 has to meet to discuss dissolution. That'll happen soon. They simply do not have a conference in 2024, and 2024 is approaching fast. that's the reality. I'm sure the Mountain West will meet to discuss providing offers to OSU & Wazzou, and maybe even Cal & Stanford. but they'd insitute hefty exit fees, as the Mountain West doesn't want to be a parking lot for those 4 who really want to be somewhere else. Unless the PAC-12 adds 8 Mt West schools at once so they can vote to dissolve the conference and not pay exit fees.
|
|
|
Post by oldnewbie on Aug 5, 2023 10:51:03 GMT -5
I heard a former usc assistant AD (now AD at a D2 school) interviewed. He said in the late 90's a sports director at NBC told him USC and UCLA were the anchor for the Pac12 and were most of what the networks cared about, and if they didn't stop pretending that all members were equal and take care of USC and UCLA, it wasn't sustainable. They couldn't go on paying WSU the same as USC, but they did. Not only that, but they added two other schools, which further diluted USC's share. I know they did that to play a conference championship game, but I doubt that whatever they made for that offset the two additional shares that those schools took out of the pie. Presumably adding Colorado/Utah expanded the pie (or the B1G wouldn't expanding), but you are right about still having equal shares, along with an over priced commissioner who dramatically underperformed in getting a TV deal.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Aug 5, 2023 10:54:11 GMT -5
Not only that, but they added two other schools, which further diluted USC's share. I know they did that to play a conference championship game, but I doubt that whatever they made for that offset the two additional shares that those schools took out of the pie. Presumably adding Colorado/Utah expanded the pie (or the B1G wouldn't expanding), but you are right about still having equal shares, along with an over priced commissioner who dramatically underperformed in getting a TV deal. I think the pie expanded due to the conference championship game. But it had to expand by enough to offset two additional shares. For example, say a 10-conference school is worth $300 million per year. That's $30 million per school. Say that adding a conference championship game adds an additional $25 million, but you have to add two schools. The pie is larger ($325 million), but size of each individual share is smaller (~$27 million). I don't know the exact numbers for the Pac-12, but that is the idea. And if USC was already unhappy subsidizing nine schools, I cant imagine they were happy subsidizing 11. And yes, add in the bloated salary for Larry Scott, the incredibly expensive San Francisco office space, the Comcast overpayment scandal, etc. Edit: Before anyone responds, yes, I know USC will still subsidize schools in the Big Ten. But not to the same degree.
|
|
|
Post by oldnewbie on Aug 5, 2023 10:54:44 GMT -5
right now, the Pac-4 has to meet to discuss dissolution. That'll happen soon. They simply do not have a conference in 2024, and 2024 is approaching fast. that's the reality. I'm sure the Mountain West will meet to discuss providing offers to OSU & Wazzou, and maybe even Cal & Stanford. but they'd insitute hefty exit fees, as the Mountain West doesn't want to be a parking lot for those 4 who really want to be somewhere else. Unless the PAC-12 adds 8 Mt West schools at once so they can vote to dissolve the conference and not pay exit fees. I don't think the Pac4 will make it past Monday. It will be the Pac2. WSU might be undefeated in conference next year! 8-0 versus Oregon state.
|
|