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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 5, 2023 20:31:24 GMT -5
So that 100 more minutes of airtime each direction would almost certainly be offset by avoiding all of the things that go along with commercial travel. This continues to be conveniently ignored by people who are concerned with “student wellbeing.” Yes, well that's fine for the schools getting $60M a year. Not so fine for the schools getting only half that.
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Post by volleyaudience on Aug 5, 2023 20:42:23 GMT -5
"Has 2023 PAC12 Volleyball set some kind of record for upheaval?" Wow!! Talk about clear sight.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Aug 5, 2023 20:54:56 GMT -5
When I hear people talking about the 'PAC-8' or the Southwest Conference days I always thought those people were old.
I'm about to be 'those people' when we're telling youngins about what the PAC-10/12 used to be.
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Post by widdledumpling on Aug 5, 2023 20:59:33 GMT -5
I keep misreading the title of this thread "The PAC12 Death Wish Thread"
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Post by widdledumpling on Aug 5, 2023 21:01:31 GMT -5
So that 100 more minutes of airtime each direction would almost certainly be offset by avoiding all of the things that go along with commercial travel. This continues to be conveniently ignored by people who are concerned with “student wellbeing.” As my family says when we have a terrible day at the airport: "it's a great day for corporate aviation"
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Post by luckydawg on Aug 5, 2023 22:01:33 GMT -5
This continues to be conveniently ignored by people who are concerned with “student wellbeing.” Yes, well that's fine for the schools getting $60M a year. Not so fine for the schools getting only half that. But still $10m a year more than staying in the Pac. Will go to approx $75m with the new next contract in six years.
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 5, 2023 22:38:38 GMT -5
When I hear people talking about the 'PAC-8' or the Southwest Conference days I always thought those people were old. I'm about to be 'those people' when we're telling youngins about what the PAC-10/12 used to be. Man, you have to be old to remember the Pac 8. Probably 50 or so. That was before I was born. I don't really remember the Southwest Conference exactly. But I do remember the Big 8 (living in Nebraska in the mid-90s made it impossible to be unaware of that conference), so same era.
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Post by vbnerd on Aug 5, 2023 22:52:08 GMT -5
Exactly, everyone says they hate where college sports is going but keep watching. Stop watching and attending and it will go back to intramural activities between universities. I don't know who all these people are that watch all that much D1 football, it's not interesting to me. especieally now with Pac 12 teams in a professional sports conference. If I want pro football, there's the NFL, and even that is an industrialized product flag football passing game now. D1 is just an amateur act with bands and cheerleaders now, with pigs like Alabama and Ohio State et. al. that aren't interesting. Obviously an Olympic sports fan like me doesn't matter. I've never watched a Rutgers or Maryland football game, won't start now. Alabama, Texas, et. all. nah. I would watch some Pac-12 teams, but it'll be less now. Michigan State vs. USC/Oregon isn't interesting to me. I have ties to UCLA, so had some interest, but that'll wane even more. I hope for implosion in the media for football after all this. like really, there's more gambling and booze money and tailgating largesse that can grow and will be even better than before? lol the Big 12. who the heck is even in it? Judging by your name, I'm guessing you on are on the west coast, and that's the problem. People on the west coast don't watch as much college football. LSU will sell 100,000k tickets to a football game, and have 80,000 more people tale-gating around campus. Michigan has 110,000 people in the stadium, and many of them are loyal for life - I know a woman who couldn't tell you zone vs man but she doesn't miss a game, from 6 states away. USC hasn't sold out a game since 2017 so I'm sure Colorado and Arizona have been even longer. Fewer fans are consistently engaged with their programs, which is why the programs aren't worth as much, and why they never got the deal they were expecting. Yes, viewership of the departed schools will go up because now you have fans of other teams in states like Texas and Ohio who want to see the competition, and may have a stake in the west coast teams results.
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Post by vbnerd on Aug 5, 2023 22:54:30 GMT -5
Missouri's Eli Drinkwitz asks a good question about athletes' mental health after Big Ten's latest expansion"My question is: Did we count the cost? And I’m not talking about the financial cost. I’m talking about: Did we count the cost for the student-athletes involved in this decision? What cost is it to those student-athletes? We’re talking about a football decision, they based on football, but what about softball and baseball, who have to travel cross-country? Did we ask about the cost to them? "Do we know what the number one indicator or symptom of or cause of mental health [issues] is? It’s lack of rest and sleep. Traveling in those baseball, softball games, those people, they travel commercial, they get done playing, they gotta go to the airport, they come back, it’s 3 or 4 in the morning, they gotta go to class. I mean, did we ask any of them?" "I saw on Twitter several student-athletes talking about how one of the reasons they chose their school was so their parents didn't have to travel. They chose a local school so they could be regionally associated so their parents could watch them play and not have to travel. Did we ask them if they wanted to travel from the East Coast to the West Coast? "Man, I love the game, but every game that I coach, I look up in the stands and find my family. I make sure they can be there. Because that's what I'm doing this for." sports.yahoo.com/missouris-eli-drinkwitz-asks-a-good-question-about-athletes-mental-health-after-big-tens-latest-expansion-224121448.html This just strikes me as so out of touch. My local D1 baseball program was taking 12 hour bus rides to get far enough south to play games in February and March. This is the equivalent of first class passengers complaining about the miseries of air travel. He's not talking to you. He's talking to a handful of 17 year olds in Illinois and Iowa that he would like to play for Missouri, and wants them to know that if they come to Missouri Mama will be there a lot more than if she has to go to strange places like New Jersey and Oregon to watch the games.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Aug 5, 2023 23:22:56 GMT -5
I don't know who all these people are that watch all that much D1 football, it's not interesting to me. especieally now with Pac 12 teams in a professional sports conference. If I want pro football, there's the NFL, and even that is an industrialized product flag football passing game now. D1 is just an amateur act with bands and cheerleaders now, with pigs like Alabama and Ohio State et. al. that aren't interesting. Obviously an Olympic sports fan like me doesn't matter. I've never watched a Rutgers or Maryland football game, won't start now. Alabama, Texas, et. all. nah. I would watch some Pac-12 teams, but it'll be less now. Michigan State vs. USC/Oregon isn't interesting to me. I have ties to UCLA, so had some interest, but that'll wane even more. I hope for implosion in the media for football after all this. like really, there's more gambling and booze money and tailgating largesse that can grow and will be even better than before? lol the Big 12. who the heck is even in it? Judging by your name, I'm guessing you on are on the west coast, and that's the problem. People on the west coast don't watch as much college football. LSU will sell 100,000k tickets to a football game, and have 80,000 more people tale-gating around campus. Michigan has 110,000 people in the stadium, and many of them are loyal for life - I know a woman who couldn't tell you zone vs man but she doesn't miss a game, from 6 states away. USC hasn't sold out a game since 2017 so I'm sure Colorado and Arizona have been even longer. Fewer fans are consistently engaged with their programs, which is why the programs aren't worth as much, and why they never got the deal they were expecting. Yes, viewership of the departed schools will go up because now you have fans of other teams in states like Texas and Ohio who want to see the competition, and may have a stake in the west coast teams results. maybe it will go up, we'll see. not everything coninually goes up. only if there is interest added. maybe for USC and UCLA it will, if LSU is already selling out, then it won't sell out more. we'll see if conferences that increase and go away from regionality increase. If the SEC goes to 20, then maybe LSU fans won't be as in to playing Alabama less, these non-regional contests popularity remains untested and we'll find out, now sure the media is going to try to pump it up because they are part and parcel and vested to have it pumped up. football is built on entertainment, not participation, unlike volleyball and soccer which keep increasing in youth but not football btw, that I live on the west coast is not the problem. it's actually a good thing. that you think it's a problem is....your problem, lol maybe ASU and Az will get more fans to go see West virginia? vs. UCLA ? why in hades would those Big 12 teams be more attractive. why would UCLA sell more for Rutgers or MIchigan State instead of Cal or Utah? it isn't a given, but sure the networks will try to find ways to pump it up. or maybe it'll just be saturated because people are addicted to the Football-instrial-Complex in most of the US, except out on the west coast what's gonna happen to Colorado who hasn't done squat in the Pac-12 when they have 5 straing 4-7 seasons in the Big-12? or UCLA goes 3-8 for 3 years in the BIG? hmmm Michigan would fill their stadium if they played Akron or Washington. Illinois, INdiana, Minnesota, Vanderbilt, Kentucky,....so many of these teams in the so-called new mega-conferences don't move the needle, yet 70% of these now 'Big-4' conferences may not matter for media. we'll see
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Post by tomclen on Aug 6, 2023 4:47:35 GMT -5
Jon Wilner has a column in the Seattle Times, "Tracing the PAC12's strategic blunders that let to its collapse." Read the full column HERE.As someone who never thought much of the PAC12 Network, this one stood out to me:
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Post by tomclen on Aug 6, 2023 9:31:48 GMT -5
A few points about this graph: First, it's specific to Washington. But certainly a similar story for UO/USC/UCLA. Second, the distances are not necessarily airport to airport. For Washington in the PAC, the longest road trip is shorter than the shortest road trip among the "new" B1G schools. Yes, I'm sure most young people in their late teens and early 20s can handle a few extra hours each week of air travel. But it's still a lot of extra time. And, at the risk of dragging politics into the main board - it seems to me that major institutions of higher learning should be working on ways to immediately reduce air travel, not add to it. But, you know, football money.
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Post by hammer on Aug 6, 2023 9:38:38 GMT -5
When I hear people talking about the 'PAC-8' or the Southwest Conference days I always thought those people were old. I'm about to be 'those people' when we're telling youngins about what the PAC-10/12 used to be. Man, you have to be old to remember the Pac 8. Probably 50 or so. That was before I was born. I don't really remember the Southwest Conference exactly. But I do remember the Big 8 (living in Nebraska in the mid-90s made it impossible to be unaware of that conference), so same era. I remember the Pac-8 too. Sometimes I struggled to make it to games ...
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Post by tomclen on Aug 6, 2023 9:44:55 GMT -5
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Post by slxpress on Aug 6, 2023 9:53:26 GMT -5
A few points about this graph: First, it's specific to Washington. But certainly a similar story for UO/USC/UCLA. Second, the distances are not necessarily airport to airport. For Washington in the PAC, the longest road trip is shorter than the shortest road trip among the "new" B1G schools. Yes, I'm sure most young people in their late teens and early 20s can handle a few extra hours each week of air travel. But it's still a lot of extra time. And, at the risk of dragging politics into the main board - it seems to me that major institutions of higher learning should be working on ways to immediately reduce air travel, not add to it. But, you know, football money. People keep saying football money, and yes, that’s at the heart of it, but it’s a little more than just chasing after every extra dollar. On some level this is an existential decision. Does a school want to compete at the highest levels of athletics, or do they want to drop down a tier, a la the Ivy League? But without the Big 10, Washington wouldn’t be able to fill their big stadium. They’ve already had huge attendance issues. Maybe this doesn’t save them. But not making this move dooms them to not being competitive in any sport. Just not enough money to fund the sports at the highest level. Recruiting dries up because all of the best talent wants to go somewhere else. The future of Washington’s athletic department as it currently exists is in the Big 10. Outside of the Big 10 it becomes much smaller and is a minor participant in college athletics. Maybe that’s the decision they should make, but that’s a really tough one. But it’s not a matter of just chasing an extra dollar.
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