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Post by horns1 on Aug 17, 2023 21:38:33 GMT -5
I don't know Notre Dame's primary objective(s) other than money. But, if their objective is to make the college football playoffs and win a national title, I am of the opinion that will be harder to do in the B1G conference than if they keep their current deal with ACC. While the ACC is benefitting from their deal with Notre Dame, I believe ND keeps all their money from any bowl games. It's like having your cake and eating it, too!
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Post by coachdavid on Aug 18, 2023 0:12:52 GMT -5
lol I mean in figured as much, but was EVERYONE in the PAC that broke or was it just that the offers from other places too good to pass up? Like I was initially annoyed with UCLA/USC leaving but if the B1G and BIG area offering better situations for the future I guess a historic conference is just the necessary sacrifice? Money had a lot to do with it, but I would also add poor leadership on the part of the Pac-12 commissioners and university presidents. The conference wasn't necessarily dead when USC and UCLA left or even when Colorado left. Washington and Oregon leaving killed the conference. I really think that if they had stayed, then the remaining nine schools would have found a way to stay together, at least for one more TV contract. In retrospect, the Pac-12 passing on ESPN's offer of $30 million per school per year was a fatal mistake for the conference. Very similar to the demise of the old Big East a decade ago. Am I crazy for thinking the PAC-12 having no exit fee was an S Tier mistake?
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 18, 2023 0:20:38 GMT -5
Money had a lot to do with it, but I would also add poor leadership on the part of the Pac-12 commissioners and university presidents. The conference wasn't necessarily dead when USC and UCLA left or even when Colorado left. Washington and Oregon leaving killed the conference. I really think that if they had stayed, then the remaining nine schools would have found a way to stay together, at least for one more TV contract. In retrospect, the Pac-12 passing on ESPN's offer of $30 million per school per year was a fatal mistake for the conference. Very similar to the demise of the old Big East a decade ago. Am I crazy for thinking the PAC-12 having no exit fee was an S Tier mistake? It definitely was. The Pac-12 seemed to think their geography would protect them from being poached. They were wrong.
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Post by noblesol on Aug 18, 2023 0:27:59 GMT -5
Am I crazy for thinking the PAC-12 having no exit fee was an S Tier mistake? It definitely was. The Pac-12 seemed to think their geography would protect them from being poached. They were wrong. A lack of imagination along with hubris. They couldn't imagine others with greater hubris than themselves.
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Post by davethecoug on Aug 18, 2023 0:46:43 GMT -5
It definitely was. The Pac-12 seemed to think their geography would protect them from being poached. They were wrong. A lack of imagination along with hubris. They couldn't imagine others with greater hubris than themselves. I always thought Exit Fees were tied to the Media Deal. The existing Pac-12 Media Deal ends next summer when all the movement happens. Therefore, no exit penalty.
Isn't the ACC situation the same (no Exit until the existing Media Deal expires)? Same for the Big-12. I believe Texas and Oklahoma paid an exit fee for departing "early" (not waiting until 2025 when the media deal would expire). If they had waited another year, I don't think they would have had to pay an exit fee.
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 18, 2023 1:07:40 GMT -5
A lack of imagination along with hubris. They couldn't imagine others with greater hubris than themselves. I always thought Exit Fees were tied to the Media Deal. The existing Pac-12 Media Deal ends next summer when all the movement happens. Therefore, no exit penalty.
Isn't the ACC situation the same (no Exit until the existing Media Deal expires)? Same for the Big-12. I believe Texas and Oklahoma paid an exit fee for departing "early" (not waiting until 2025 when the media deal would expire). If they had waited another year, I don't think they would have had to pay an exit fee.
No, the exit fees (if any) are laid out in the conference's bylaws. The media deal is a different matter due to the grant of rights. So the ACC has an exit fee of apparently ~$120 million (likely negotiable). But the real issue is that even if a school pays that, the conference owns its media rights through 2036.
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Post by slxpress on Aug 18, 2023 1:22:56 GMT -5
I always thought Exit Fees were tied to the Media Deal. The existing Pac-12 Media Deal ends next summer when all the movement happens. Therefore, no exit penalty.
Isn't the ACC situation the same (no Exit until the existing Media Deal expires)? Same for the Big-12. I believe Texas and Oklahoma paid an exit fee for departing "early" (not waiting until 2025 when the media deal would expire). If they had waited another year, I don't think they would have had to pay an exit fee.
No, the exit fees (if any) are laid out in the conference's bylaws. The media deal is a different matter due to the grant of rights. So the ACC has an exit fee of apparently ~$120 million (likely negotiable). But the real issue is that even if a school pays that, the conference owns its media rights through 2036. But the.Big 12 didn’t have an exit fee. The SEC only recently put something in place. I don’t think the B1G has any kind of exit fee. By the time the PAC 12 could reasonably have been expected to create an exit fee big enough to make a school reconsider leaving, they were already at a point USC would have refused to agree to it. There’s no way they could have implemented one after the announced departure of USC/UCLA. The biggest way to keep the conference together would have been to make more money in the 2010s instead of the horrible misstep of the PAC 12 network, and to be located in a region with steady or increasing interest in college football rather than the waning interest that existed.
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 18, 2023 2:08:06 GMT -5
No, the exit fees (if any) are laid out in the conference's bylaws. The media deal is a different matter due to the grant of rights. So the ACC has an exit fee of apparently ~$120 million (likely negotiable). But the real issue is that even if a school pays that, the conference owns its media rights through 2036. But the.Big 12 didn’t have an exit fee. The SEC only recently put something in place. I don’t think the B1G has any kind of exit fee. By the time the PAC 12 could reasonably have been expected to create an exit fee big enough to make a school reconsider leaving, they were already at a point USC would have refused to agree to it. There’s no way they could have implemented one after the announced departure of USC/UCLA. The biggest way to keep the conference together would have been to make more money in the 2010s instead of the horrible misstep of the PAC 12 network, and to be located in a region with steady or increasing interest in college football rather than the waning interest that existed. The Big 12 definitely had an exit fee. It was negotiated down. I don't believe the Big Ten has one, but they should consider adding one. Like I said, even the SEC (which looks about as stable as can be at the moment) wisely decided to add an exit fee just in case. As for the Pac-12, I doubt they even really considered an exit fee. As I said, I think they actually believed that USC would never leave, which was just wishful thinking. Edit: The Big 12's bylaws are available online. Section 3.4 on page 15 covers the exit fee ("buyout amount" in the document).
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Post by slxpress on Aug 18, 2023 2:16:11 GMT -5
But the.Big 12 didn’t have an exit fee. The SEC only recently put something in place. I don’t think the B1G has any kind of exit fee. By the time the PAC 12 could reasonably have been expected to create an exit fee big enough to make a school reconsider leaving, they were already at a point USC would have refused to agree to it. There’s no way they could have implemented one after the announced departure of USC/UCLA. The biggest way to keep the conference together would have been to make more money in the 2010s instead of the horrible misstep of the PAC 12 network, and to be located in a region with steady or increasing interest in college football rather than the waning interest that existed. The Big 12 definitely had an exit fee. It was negotiated down. I don't believe the Big Ten has one, but they should consider adding one. No, it didn’t. It had a GOR fee, but you made it clear that was separate. The fee OU and Texas paid was for the single year of media rights they were withdrawing from to head to the SEC. “Compensation to the Big 12 for the early withdrawals of the two schools will be $100 million “in foregone distributable revenues” according to the Big 12 release.” The entire $100 million is for withdrawing a year early from the media deal, not some kind of separate exit fee. You and I went roubd and round on this for a couple of years, where you told me OU and UT would finish out the media agreement and I told you the UT booster bigwigs I knew kept insisting we were leaving a year early, which we did.
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Post by bbg95 on Aug 18, 2023 2:18:03 GMT -5
The Big 12 definitely had an exit fee. It was negotiated down. I don't believe the Big Ten has one, but they should consider adding one. No, it didn’t. It had a GOR fee, but you made it clear that was separate. The fee OU and Texas paid was for the single year of media rights they were withdrawing from to head to the SEC. “Compensation to the Big 12 for the early withdrawals of the two schools will be $100 million “in foregone distributable revenues” according to the Big 12 release.” The entire $100 million is for withdrawing a year early from the media deal, not some kind of separate exit fee. You and I went roubd and round on this for a couple of years, where you told me OU and UT would finish out the media agreement and I told you the UT booster bigwigs I knew kept insisting we were leaving a year early, which we did. All due respect, but you are wrong. Read the bylaws and get back to me. There was an exit fee, and it was negotiated down. Thank ESPN and Yormark. I will concede that I was wrong about Texas and Oklahoma being there until 2025, but that doesn't mean the bylaws don't lay out an exit fee.
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Post by slxpress on Aug 18, 2023 3:02:30 GMT -5
No, it didn’t. It had a GOR fee, but you made it clear that was separate. The fee OU and Texas paid was for the single year of media rights they were withdrawing from to head to the SEC. “Compensation to the Big 12 for the early withdrawals of the two schools will be $100 million “in foregone distributable revenues” according to the Big 12 release.” The entire $100 million is for withdrawing a year early from the media deal, not some kind of separate exit fee. You and I went roubd and round on this for a couple of years, where you told me OU and UT would finish out the media agreement and I told you the UT booster bigwigs I knew kept insisting we were leaving a year early, which we did. All due respect, but you are wrong. Read the bylaws and get back to me. There was an exit fee, and it was negotiated down. Thank ESPN and Yormark. I will concede that I was wrong about Texas and Oklahoma being there until 2025, but that doesn't mean the bylaws don't lay out an exit fee. Hmmm. Well, it looks like the Big 12 was different. “Big 12 bylaws state that members that plan to leave the conference are required to give 18 months notice and pay an exit fee that is equal to two years of revenue distributions.” The two years of revenue distributions would have been somewhere between $70m and $80m for each school, and they negotiated it down to $50m for each school. Something like that would have required some payment from the 8 PAC 12 schools that departed. Frankly, the four remaining schools would have been rolling in the money with something like that in place. I have some question how it would be calculated with limted revenue distributions after 2024, but that’s why you have attorneys to argue it should be calculated based on distributions for 2022 and 2023.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Aug 18, 2023 7:27:47 GMT -5
I don't know Notre Dame's primary objective(s) other than money. But, if their objective is to make the college football playoffs and win a national title, I am of the opinion that will be harder to do in the B1G conference than if they keep their current deal with ACC. While the ACC is benefitting from their deal with Notre Dame, I believe ND keeps all their money from any bowl games. It's like having your cake and eating it, too! Seems like ND's path to the CFP is easiest by being an independent. As long at that dynamic continues - ND is likely to stay an independent. Not sure that money is the primary objective here.
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Post by horns1 on Aug 18, 2023 8:37:00 GMT -5
I don't know Notre Dame's primary objective(s) other than money. But, if their objective is to make the college football playoffs and win a national title, I am of the opinion that will be harder to do in the B1G conference than if they keep their current deal with ACC. While the ACC is benefitting from their deal with Notre Dame, I believe ND keeps all their money from any bowl games. It's like having your cake and eating it, too! Seems like ND's path to the CFP is easiest by being an independent. As long at that dynamic continues - ND is likely to stay an independent. Not sure that money is the primary objective here. Maybe it is "easier". But, they contracted with the ACC on a limited football basis for a reason. Getting to play in the ACC Championship game (like they did in 2020) gives them a 13th game which they wouldn't get if they were completely "independent"; that could matter against other contenders who played 13 games. Those 6 guaranteed games against ACC teams help their RPI/SOS; they usually get at least one of Miami, Florida State, or Clemson.
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Post by vbnerd on Aug 18, 2023 9:00:12 GMT -5
You need to win a conference to get one of the 4 first round byes in football. Notre Dame by being Independent cannot earn a first round bye... but they can get to host a game on campus in December which makes a lot of money and could look a lot like a bye depending on who the opponent is.
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Post by surfvolleypolojock77 on Aug 18, 2023 12:28:09 GMT -5
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