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Post by manyshaped on Nov 15, 2023 11:12:09 GMT -5
You certainly do not see USC being concerned about any of this. They have class. offer classes sure. lots of subjects too, might i add
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 15, 2023 11:22:34 GMT -5
You certainly do not see USC being concerned about any of this. They have class. I'm trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or not. USC hunting for cash is what started all this.
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Post by tomclen on Nov 15, 2023 11:26:00 GMT -5
Well, I'm not the one who called them greedy. And I'm not sure I've seen too many people call Stanford and Cal greedy (at least not compared to USC, UCLA Washington, etc.). I think most people understand that they didn't have many options once the mass exodus happened. From what I can tell, Washington State and Oregon State were concerned that if the other 10 schools remained on the board, they would try to hold a meeting to dissolve and liquidate the conference and probably give Kliavkoff a golden parachute. WSU and OSU want to try to rebuild the conference and likely fire Kliavkoff. No but the person I responded to did. And I've seen quite a few WSU and OSU fans say it or something similar. They're pissed that Stanford and Cal left them. I understand feeling betrayed but I don't understand why they think Stanford or Cal are some kind of traitors for leaving. Staying in the Pac-4 did not work for them any more than going to the ACC worked for WSU or OSU. I don't see any bad guys there, just four universities in a %*$#ty situation scrambling for something that would let them keep their programs afloat as much as possible. Unfortunately, that was two different things so they ended up going in different directions. If I was somehow required to develop a list of the Top 10 "Villains" in the PAC debacle, this would be my list: 1. Larry Scott 2. Every PAC college president who allowed Scott to underperform while being overcompensated ($50M over 13 years). 3. USC 4. George Kliavkoff with his $3.6M annual salary. 5. PAC12 Network (See #1 & #4) 6. Major TV networks that demanded PAC12 Football be scheduled at 10p in Eastern time zone. 7. ADs and college administrators who allowed #6 to happen repeatedly season after season. 8. UW 9. UO 10. Stanford (For not throwing around their weight more to improve the network and scheduling issues).
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Post by bbg95 on Nov 15, 2023 11:32:13 GMT -5
No but the person I responded to did. And I've seen quite a few WSU and OSU fans say it or something similar. They're pissed that Stanford and Cal left them. I understand feeling betrayed but I don't understand why they think Stanford or Cal are some kind of traitors for leaving. Staying in the Pac-4 did not work for them any more than going to the ACC worked for WSU or OSU. I don't see any bad guys there, just four universities in a %*$#ty situation scrambling for something that would let them keep their programs afloat as much as possible. Unfortunately, that was two different things so they ended up going in different directions. If I was somehow required to develop a list of the Top 10 "Villains" in the PAC debacle, this would be my list: 1. Larry Scott 2. Every PAC college president who allowed Scott to underperform while being overcompensated ($50M over 13 years). 3. USC 4. George Kliavkoff with his $3.6M annual salary. 5. PAC12 Network (See #1 & #4) 6. Major TV networks that demanded PAC12 Football be scheduled at 10p in Eastern time zone. 7. ADs and college administrators who allowed #6 to happen repeatedly season after season. 8. UW 9. UO 10. Stanford (For not throwing around their weight more to improve the network and scheduling issues). Solid list, though I would put the university presidents at the very top. They hired both Scott and Kliavkoff, after all. Also, they were the ones (particularly the Utah president) that countered with $50 million per year per school, which caused ESPN to go the Big 12 for a deal instead.
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trojansc
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Posts: 30,521
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Post by trojansc on Nov 15, 2023 11:45:32 GMT -5
At least USC's inept Athletic Department is hurting other schools now, not just themselves.
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Post by Gladys Kravitz on Nov 15, 2023 11:56:41 GMT -5
You certainly do not see USC being concerned about any of this. They have class. I'm trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or not. USC hunting for cash is what started all this. If Donna Heinel was still at Southern Cal...........................
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Post by Gladys Kravitz on Nov 15, 2023 11:59:11 GMT -5
You certainly do not see USC being concerned about any of this. They have class. I'm trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or not. USC hunting for cash is what started all this. USC started all of this. Pure money grab. Next season their football team will be lucky to a .500 team. Next season their WVB team with no Fields will be.................
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Post by vbnerd on Nov 15, 2023 12:00:55 GMT -5
6. Major TV networks that demanded PAC12 Football be scheduled at 10p in Eastern time zone. I have more of an issue with the 9am local time games for TV than the 10pm Eastern games which are 7pm local time when most sports are played. The World Series and NBA Finals and Monday Night Football when it was on broadcast were all 8:30-9:30 starts but some Pac 12 fans consider a 10pm eastern start a punishment and I never understood that. The Pac 12 has a captive audience here. 10pm on a Saturday my options were Pac 12 after dark or a rerun of a Marvel movie. So of course I'd watch ASU vs Cal or Colorado vs Oregon State or whatever dredge that I certainly wasn't making time for in the afternoon. I remember looking in 2018 or 2019 and most or all of the Pac 12 head coaches made less than the coordinators at LSU/Alabama/Georgia/Clemson/Ohio State/Texas etc. I don't recall which but IIRC one of the Pac 12 coaches had a published salary of under $1 million or they had just crossed it which Clemson's DC was making $2.3 million, and that is before you factor in cost of living in some of the Pac 12 communities as compared to ACC/SEC communities. The Pac 12 sold less tickets, they had lower ranked recruiting classes, and then people were wondered why viewership and money went away. I don't think this started with TV. I think TV responded to the same lack of revenue and investment and interest that the coaches and the recruits were responding to.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Nov 15, 2023 12:05:39 GMT -5
6. Major TV networks that demanded PAC12 Football be scheduled at 10p in Eastern time zone. I have more of an issue with the 9am local time games for TV than the 10pm Eastern games which are 7pm local time when most sports are played. The World Series and NBA Finals and Monday Night Football when it was on broadcast were all 8:30-9:30 starts but some Pac 12 fans consider a 10pm eastern start a punishment and I never understood that. The Pac 12 has a captive audience here. 10pm on a Saturday my options were Pac 12 after dark or a rerun of a Marvel movie. So of course I'd watch ASU vs Cal or Colorado vs Oregon State or whatever dredge that I certainly wasn't making time for in the afternoon. I remember looking in 2018 or 2019 and most or all of the Pac 12 head coaches made less than the coordinators at LSU/Alabama/Georgia/Clemson/Ohio State/Texas etc. I don't recall which but IIRC one of the Pac 12 coaches had a published salary of under $1 million or they had just crossed it which Clemson's DC was making $2.3 million, and that is before you factor in cost of living in some of the Pac 12 communities as compared to ACC/SEC communities. The Pac 12 sold less tickets, they had lower ranked recruiting classes, and then people were wondered why viewership and money went away. I don't think this started with TV. I think TV responded to the same lack of revenue and investment and interest that the coaches and the recruits were responding to. 2018/2019 was 30 years into the problem. Decades of less media coverage hurt programs, recruiting and visibility, the terrible start times ruined game day atmospheres and traditions. It's one reason why the Conference did go ahead with the PAC-12 Network - ESPN was a terrible partner to the conference and would have had us wither on the vine.
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Post by bbg95 on Nov 15, 2023 12:09:19 GMT -5
6. Major TV networks that demanded PAC12 Football be scheduled at 10p in Eastern time zone. I have more of an issue with the 9am local time games for TV than the 10pm Eastern games which are 7pm local time when most sports are played. The World Series and NBA Finals and Monday Night Football when it was on broadcast were all 8:30-9:30 starts but some Pac 12 fans consider a 10pm eastern start a punishment and I never understood that. The Pac 12 has a captive audience here. 10pm on a Saturday my options were Pac 12 after dark or a rerun of a Marvel movie. So of course I'd watch ASU vs Cal or Colorado vs Oregon State or whatever dredge that I certainly wasn't making time for in the afternoon. I remember looking in 2018 or 2019 and most or all of the Pac 12 head coaches made less than the coordinators at LSU/Alabama/Georgia/Clemson/Ohio State/Texas etc. I don't recall which but IIRC one of the Pac 12 coaches had a published salary of under $1 million or they had just crossed it which Clemson's DC was making $2.3 million, and that is before you factor in cost of living in some of the Pac 12 communities as compared to ACC/SEC communities. The Pac 12 sold less tickets, they had lower ranked recruiting classes, and then people were wondered why viewership and money went away. I don't think this started with TV. I think TV responded to the same lack of revenue and investment and interest that the coaches and the recruits were responding to. Some of it is just a structural issue with geography. 10 PM Pacific is 1 AM Eastern (the games might start at 10 PM ET, but they would get over after midnight, even for a sport like basketball that takes less time than football). When I lived in Manhattan, I discovered how awful that was. There are a lot more people in the Eastern and Central time zones, and it's just hard to justify staying up that late to watch Pac-12 football. It was hard enough to justify staying up that late to watch the NBA Finals with the Lakers involved. And that's when I was 25. Sacrificing sleep gets harder every year.
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 15, 2023 12:21:19 GMT -5
When a Formula 1 race is on live at 3am in the US, it has very little competition from other sports. So they must get huge US audiences for that, right?
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Post by tomclen on Nov 15, 2023 12:22:26 GMT -5
I have more of an issue with the 9am local time games for TV than the 10pm Eastern games which are 7pm local time when most sports are played. The World Series and NBA Finals and Monday Night Football when it was on broadcast were all 8:30-9:30 starts but some Pac 12 fans consider a 10pm eastern start a punishment and I never understood that. The Pac 12 has a captive audience here. 10pm on a Saturday my options were Pac 12 after dark or a rerun of a Marvel movie. So of course I'd watch ASU vs Cal or Colorado vs Oregon State or whatever dredge that I certainly wasn't making time for in the afternoon. I remember looking in 2018 or 2019 and most or all of the Pac 12 head coaches made less than the coordinators at LSU/Alabama/Georgia/Clemson/Ohio State/Texas etc. I don't recall which but IIRC one of the Pac 12 coaches had a published salary of under $1 million or they had just crossed it which Clemson's DC was making $2.3 million, and that is before you factor in cost of living in some of the Pac 12 communities as compared to ACC/SEC communities. The Pac 12 sold less tickets, they had lower ranked recruiting classes, and then people were wondered why viewership and money went away. I don't think this started with TV. I think TV responded to the same lack of revenue and investment and interest that the coaches and the recruits were responding to. 2018/2019 was 30 years into the problem. Decades of less media coverage hurt programs, recruiting and visibility, the terrible start times ruined game day atmospheres and traditions.It's one reason why the Conference did go ahead with the PAC-12 Network - ESPN was a terrible partner to the conference and would have had us wither on the vine. Nothing like having a beautiful 50-degree Saturday afternoon, and then going to mostly uncovered Husky Stadium for a rainy cold 7:30 football game and getting to your car, drenched, at 12 midnight. Color and pageantry of college football my ass.
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Post by bbg95 on Nov 15, 2023 12:31:40 GMT -5
I have more of an issue with the 9am local time games for TV than the 10pm Eastern games which are 7pm local time when most sports are played. The World Series and NBA Finals and Monday Night Football when it was on broadcast were all 8:30-9:30 starts but some Pac 12 fans consider a 10pm eastern start a punishment and I never understood that. The Pac 12 has a captive audience here. 10pm on a Saturday my options were Pac 12 after dark or a rerun of a Marvel movie. So of course I'd watch ASU vs Cal or Colorado vs Oregon State or whatever dredge that I certainly wasn't making time for in the afternoon. I remember looking in 2018 or 2019 and most or all of the Pac 12 head coaches made less than the coordinators at LSU/Alabama/Georgia/Clemson/Ohio State/Texas etc. I don't recall which but IIRC one of the Pac 12 coaches had a published salary of under $1 million or they had just crossed it which Clemson's DC was making $2.3 million, and that is before you factor in cost of living in some of the Pac 12 communities as compared to ACC/SEC communities. The Pac 12 sold less tickets, they had lower ranked recruiting classes, and then people were wondered why viewership and money went away. I don't think this started with TV. I think TV responded to the same lack of revenue and investment and interest that the coaches and the recruits were responding to. Some of it is just a structural issue with geography. 10 PM Pacific is 1 AM Eastern (the games might start at 10 PM ET, but they would get over after midnight, even for a sport like basketball that takes less time than football). When I lived in Manhattan, I discovered how awful that was. There are a lot more people in the Eastern and Central time zones, and it's just hard to justify staying up that late to watch Pac-12 football. It was hard enough to justify staying up that late to watch the NBA Finals with the Lakers involved. And that's when I was 25. Sacrificing sleep gets harder every year. Another thing is that a football game is a 3+ hour commitment if you want to watch the whole thing. If you're up at 10 PM on the East Coast, you might decide that you'd rather watch a one-hour episode of something on Netflix or a play a video game for an hour or read for an hour instead. I live in the Mountain Time Zone, so Pac-12 After Dark is fine for me, since I can still get to bed before midnight. But if I lived on the East Coast, no chance I'm watching.
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Post by n00b on Nov 15, 2023 12:35:39 GMT -5
2018/2019 was 30 years into the problem. Decades of less media coverage hurt programs, recruiting and visibility, the terrible start times ruined game day atmospheres and traditions.It's one reason why the Conference did go ahead with the PAC-12 Network - ESPN was a terrible partner to the conference and would have had us wither on the vine. Nothing like having a beautiful 50-degree Saturday afternoon, and then going to mostly uncovered Husky Stadium for a rainy cold 7:30 football game and getting to your car, drenched, at 12 midnight. Color and pageantry of college football my ass. Well I've been to an evening SEC football game and it was ELECTRIC. Penn State football's biggest, rowdiest, best crowd of the season is always an evening white out game. If Washington has a crappy atmosphere, that's on them.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Nov 15, 2023 12:42:14 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out if this is sarcasm or not. USC hunting for cash is what started all this. USC started all of this. Pure money grab. Next season their football team will be lucky to a .500 team. Next season their WVB team with no Fields will be................. Really unrelated to this thread - but isn't the USC recruiting pipeline outstanding. I don't know their specific roster for next season - but if there are any holes, I bet they will easily be able to fill with transfers. edit - talking VB here.
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