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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 6, 2024 12:12:26 GMT -5
Lazy comparison. World War II was a conflict between nation-states. The war in Gaza isn't between nation-states, it's one state doing a genocide on an occupied population. And yes, if Hiroshima happened today, it would be a war crime. Genocide? Palestine is the side that believes in genocide - the extermination of an entire race or group of people. Israel is engaged in a war with a terrorist organization that is unwilling to surrender. Crazy that the side you say doesn't believe in genocide is the side that is actually doing one right now. It's strange that you continue to believe this given Israel's government is explicitly against any kind of two state solution. Or one state solution, for that matter.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 6, 2024 17:42:13 GMT -5
The current government of Israel has *explicitly* stated that they will not accept a two-state solution. It is bizarre to posit here that they really don't mean what they say, when all their actions to date are completely in congruence with their own stated objectives.
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Post by franknvb on Apr 6, 2024 20:17:09 GMT -5
The current government of Israel has *explicitly* stated that they will not accept a two-state solution. It is bizarre to posit here that they really don't mean what they say, when all their actions to date are completely in congruence with their own stated objectives. No dork, the palestinians never wanted a 2 state solution and now Israel is on board with them it is bizarre that you would post something that stupid.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 6, 2024 20:28:25 GMT -5
I'd usually say it's pretty brazen for Israel to murder a bunch of aid workers from a charity that's politically connected to Joe Biden, but the administration seems content to let the IDF do whatever it wants. The US blew up an aid worker and most of the kids in his whole extended family with a targeted missile strike and initially described it as "righteous", until they finally admitted they had made an intelligence mistake. I believe it is quite possible both that the IDF deliberately did this, but also that it may have actually been a mistake. I don't know how long it is going to take Biden to get past his lifetime of reflexive unconditional support for Israel, but it sure as hell seems like Bibi is almost trying to deliberately provoke Biden into breaking with him. Either that, or he's so determined to complete his genocide in Gaza that he just doesn't care if it costs Israel their most important ally. He may think that the pro-Israel lobby in the US is just so strong that he can afford to do this, but I believe that is a political miscalculation. IIRC the incident you referred to happened thousands of miles from the United States in Afghanistan, under time pressure and with a lot of other mitigating factors - and was still completely wrong of course, but understandable. These workers were killed about 5 miles from Israel itself, on land that was controlled by Israel, and with IDF soldiers within spitting distance. It follows another recent murder at an aid location, when the IDF opened fire on an unarmed crowd trying to get food. Both murders come as Israel has aggressively resisted allowing aid in and worked to deter international organizations from bringing aid in. Is it possible this was an honest mistake? Sure its possible one of us will win the lottery too, but there is no reason at all to give Israel the benefit of the doubt. Still not sure why when Israel puts out a statement, its somehow viewed as more credible than one coming from Hamas? (Actually never mind, I'm pretty sure)
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Post by guest2 on Apr 6, 2024 20:43:07 GMT -5
How many "accidents" are allowed before its reasonable to believe that something else is at play? The intentions of certain Israelis with regard to Gaza and the Palestinians have been apparent for some time. There is no logical, moral or equitable basis for the disproportionate response that Israeli has taken in Gaza. Hamas has no tanks, no standing army, no substantial weapons or missiles and it does not pose an existential threat to Israel, now, before or in the future. On the other hand, thousands of Palestinian women and children have already been killed, and countless more face starvation and extinction. Sometimes, I just can't believe that you call yourself a Christian. They still hold innocent hostages. They attacked a country by raping thousands of innocent citizens. They killed, tortured innocent civilians including women and children. They have no interest in peace or any sort of solution that doesn't involve the ethnic cleansing of all Jews in the region (ironic that those that are the historic victims of genocide and have no interest in any genocide are often accused by those of committing genocide from those that actually advocate genocide). Existential threat - really? Israel is a country surrounded by many countries whose committed goal is to exterminate all Jews and destroy Israel. I support Israel in defending themselves from illegal attacks. I am committed to the phrase 'Never Forget'. I am not willing to go back on this commitment after 6+m Jews were wiped off this earth from the Fascist in the world that seem to be making a comeback. Humas is 'Gaza and Palestinians'. They can stop this at any time by releasing the hostages and unconditional surrender to the war they started. Much of the World (and evidently yourself) should be focusing your outrage at the real evil in this conflict - Humas. I am very much proud of being a Christian. I am very much proud to stand with my Jewish friends and the nation of Israel. Who exactly attacked who first? Hamas made a military excursion into Israel in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses (how many and which is in serious dispute). They did that on Oct. 7, 2023. Lets look at 2023 before that. January of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. February of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. March of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. April of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. May - Surprise - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. June 2023 - Yes, again - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. July 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. August - Same September - Same October - Same before Oct. 7. On October 7, Hamas did they same and the entirety of Israel and most of the US rose to their feet, pointed their fingers and shouted, "they started it."
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 7, 2024 5:58:24 GMT -5
The current government of Israel has *explicitly* stated that they will not accept a two-state solution. It is bizarre to posit here that they really don't mean what they say, when all their actions to date are completely in congruence with their own stated objectives. The tragic thing is that both opposing sides "agree" on one thing, no two state solution. Israel, or at least the current Israeli government, is unwilling to accept a two state solution, as you said. Ironically, Hamas likewise agreed, they do not accept a two state solution either. Perversely, this "agreement" between the two sides mean there is no long term accomodation possible between them. This current Israeli government does not believe Palestianians deserve their own state. Some of the hardcore settlers on the West Bank, in their warped view, even think Palestianians does not exist as a people and so they are free to take their land. Hamas likewise does not accept Israeli's right to existence and their stated goal remains the destruction of Israel and expulsion of Jews from Israel. So given that reality, beyond tactical or short-term strategic negotiation between Israel and Hamas to resolve aspects of the immediate short-term crisis, there is bound to be another violent tragedy further down the road even after the Gaza war has ended. Or maybe I am just too bleak...
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 12, 2024 11:08:01 GMT -5
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 13, 2024 16:09:55 GMT -5
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 13, 2024 16:13:05 GMT -5
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 13, 2024 16:32:24 GMT -5
Strike is retaliation for an Israeli airstrike that killed Iranians in Syria.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 13, 2024 16:41:43 GMT -5
Strike is retaliation for an Israeli airstrike that killed Iranians in Syria. Specifically for striking the Iranian consulate, which is very clearly an act of war on the part of Israel.
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Post by mervinswerved on May 6, 2024 11:05:46 GMT -5
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Post by mervinswerved on May 6, 2024 13:31:10 GMT -5
Meanwhile, Israel backed out of a ceasefire agreement Hamas signed on to and is now ordering the relocation of a few hundred thousand people in Rafah, which in itself is a major war crime.
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Post by hbmb10k on May 7, 2024 12:12:09 GMT -5
They still hold innocent hostages. They attacked a country by raping thousands of innocent citizens. They killed, tortured innocent civilians including women and children. They have no interest in peace or any sort of solution that doesn't involve the ethnic cleansing of all Jews in the region (ironic that those that are the historic victims of genocide and have no interest in any genocide are often accused by those of committing genocide from those that actually advocate genocide). Existential threat - really? Israel is a country surrounded by many countries whose committed goal is to exterminate all Jews and destroy Israel. I support Israel in defending themselves from illegal attacks. I am committed to the phrase 'Never Forget'. I am not willing to go back on this commitment after 6+m Jews were wiped off this earth from the Fascist in the world that seem to be making a comeback. Humas is 'Gaza and Palestinians'. They can stop this at any time by releasing the hostages and unconditional surrender to the war they started. Much of the World (and evidently yourself) should be focusing your outrage at the real evil in this conflict - Humas. I am very much proud of being a Christian. I am very much proud to stand with my Jewish friends and the nation of Israel. Who exactly attacked who first? Hamas made a military excursion into Israel in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses (how many and which is in serious dispute). They did that on Oct. 7, 2023. Lets look at 2023 before that. January of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. February of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. March of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. April of 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. May - Surprise - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. June 2023 - Yes, again - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. July 2023 - Israel made military excursions into Palestine in which they killed and kidnapped people and committed various other offenses. August - Same September - Same October - Same before Oct. 7. On October 7, Hamas did they same and the entirety of Israel and most of the US rose to their feet, pointed their fingers and shouted, "they started it." Love it when people take the time to present facts.
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Post by hbmb10k on May 7, 2024 12:17:02 GMT -5
The current government of Israel has *explicitly* stated that they will not accept a two-state solution. It is bizarre to posit here that they really don't mean what they say, when all their actions to date are completely in congruence with their own stated objectives. The tragic thing is that both opposing sides "agree" on one thing, no two state solution. Israel, or at least the current Israeli government, is unwilling to accept a two state solution, as you said. Ironically, Hamas likewise agreed, they do not accept a two state solution either. Perversely, this "agreement" between the two sides mean there is no long term accomodation possible between them. This current Israeli government does not believe Palestianians deserve their own state. Some of the hardcore settlers on the West Bank, in their warped view, even think Palestianians does not exist as a people and so they are free to take their land. Hamas likewise does not accept Israeli's right to existence and their stated goal remains the destruction of Israel and expulsion of Jews from Israel. So given that reality, beyond tactical or short-term strategic negotiation between Israel and Hamas to resolve aspects of the immediate short-term crisis, there is bound to be another violent tragedy further down the road even after the Gaza war has ended. Or maybe I am just too bleak... BS. Hamas dropped this the language in their charter denying Israel's right to exist decades ago. You're a victim of Israeli propaganda. All they do is lie, lie, lie. They are counting on Americans not having the IQ to discern their lies. Furthermore, good for Hamas! Defending themselves against pure evil. I wish them the best.
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