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Post by n00b on Nov 24, 2023 14:20:17 GMT -5
relegates its bottom teams without providing them with anything meaningful to compete for in most of their conference season. Have you ever met a coach or player from a low level D1 conference? Pretty sure they’d vehemently disagree that they don’t have anything meaningful to play for. In fact, what you describe is basically a European Champions League format. The worst leagues still get invited. And the best leagues get multiple bids. Sounds a lot like the NCAA tournament. |
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Post by noblesol on Nov 24, 2023 15:01:05 GMT -5
I agree, small odds of pruning the bottom 50 of DIV-I. It's this locked in disparity in the current system that highlights the need for formerly moving to hierarchal leagues with promotion-relegation within DIV-I WVB. DIV-I WVB has screwed around with RPI in its place to achieve an inferior result. Other than the fact it violates several billion dollars worth of existing television contracts, do you see any challenges to implementing your plan? No contracts would be violated. Name one, describe the violation. |
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Post by mervinswerved on Nov 24, 2023 15:11:04 GMT -5
Other than the fact it violates several billion dollars worth of existing television contracts, do you see any challenges to implementing your plan? No contracts would be violated. Name one, describe the violation. Every single conference media rights deal. |
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Post by noblesol on Nov 24, 2023 15:16:03 GMT -5
relegates its bottom teams without providing them with anything meaningful to compete for in most of their conference season. Have you ever met a coach or player from a low level D1 conference? Pretty sure they’d vehemently disagree that they don’t have anything meaningful to play for. In fact, what you describe is basically a European Champions League format. The worst leagues still get invited. And the best leagues get multiple bids. Sounds a lot like the NCAA tournament. The existence of the NIVC puts the lie to your assertion that the low level DI's aren't feeling ignored and left out with no meaningful NCAA tournament to play for through most of their conference season. Your second point is that basically that Euro Leagues aren't perfection. Sure, but that's not a problem of promotion-relegation as much as they have their politics interfering to tip the scales. Their system is good, their committees and politics bad. Whereas NCAA DIV-I systemically sucks (by design), and it's committees and politics are a combination of bean counters, power conference protective, and VBIQ ignorant. |
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Post by noblesol on Nov 24, 2023 15:16:28 GMT -5
No contracts would be violated. Name one, describe the violation. Every single conference media rights deal. None. Name one, describe the violation. |
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Post by mervinswerved on Nov 24, 2023 15:45:18 GMT -5
Every single conference media rights deal. None. Name one, describe the violation. All of them? The violation where you break teams from their conference affiliation based on a European style pro-rel system. |
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Post by txvbcoach on Nov 24, 2023 15:55:00 GMT -5
Every single conference media rights deal. None. Name one, describe the violation. media outlets vie for sports packages and sink a lot of money into them and the schools pockets. The SEC (for example) works primarily with the SEC network to produce content so that people will watch their channel and watch their ads. Let's say Texas comes into the SEC and someone pays top dollar for a revised television contract thinking UT will open up lucrative markets in Texas like Austin, Dallas, Houston. Then Texas gets relegated to someplace you haven't defined yet. They would now NOT play any of the other SEC teams and the contract that was signed is less valuable. No way any media is going to purchase the rights with that kind of a system. Stop getting hung up on the word violation and more on what rights are purchased in the media contracts. |
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Post by noblesol on Nov 24, 2023 16:52:50 GMT -5
None. Name one, describe the violation. All of them? The violation where you break teams from their conference affiliation based on a European style pro-rel system. Did not propose relegation or promotion to new conferences. Stated up front, most conferences would have a mix of teams. |
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Post by Not Me on Nov 24, 2023 16:53:55 GMT -5
Why are people obsessed with making the sport “bigger?” How does that improve the game we watch? What are the benefits of being “bigger?”
Changing the tournament format and where they host games will have no impact on the game or the growth.
The sport has made strides over the past few years. The growth is there. Moving to a different season is stupid and would destroy the growth that has been achieved.
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Post by noblesol on Nov 24, 2023 16:54:48 GMT -5
None. Name one, describe the violation. media outlets vie for sports packages and sink a lot of money into them and the schools pockets. The SEC (for example) works primarily with the SEC network to produce content so that people will watch their channel and watch their ads. Let's say Texas comes into the SEC and someone pays top dollar for a revised television contract thinking UT will open up lucrative markets in Texas like Austin, Dallas, Houston. Then Texas gets relegated to someplace you haven't defined yet. They would now NOT play any of the other SEC teams and the contract that was signed is less valuable. No way any media is going to purchase the rights with that kind of a system. Stop getting hung up on the word violation and more on what rights are purchased in the media contracts. Did not propose relegation or promotion to new conferences. Stated up front, most conferences would have a mix of teams. |
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Post by topspin on Nov 24, 2023 18:04:20 GMT -5
If I don’t know who to cheer for, I always choose the team with the least amount of transfers. Sucks for the lower D1 teams to constantly lose their best players.
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Post by volleyguy on Nov 24, 2023 18:10:37 GMT -5
Just about every major pro Volleyball League in the world has a relegation system. And they all have media deals.
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Post by txvbcoach on Nov 25, 2023 21:44:25 GMT -5
media outlets vie for sports packages and sink a lot of money into them and the schools pockets. The SEC (for example) works primarily with the SEC network to produce content so that people will watch their channel and watch their ads. Let's say Texas comes into the SEC and someone pays top dollar for a revised television contract thinking UT will open up lucrative markets in Texas like Austin, Dallas, Houston. Then Texas gets relegated to someplace you haven't defined yet. They would now NOT play any of the other SEC teams and the contract that was signed is less valuable. No way any media is going to purchase the rights with that kind of a system. Stop getting hung up on the word violation and more on what rights are purchased in the media contracts. Did not propose relegation or promotion to new conferences. Stated up front, most conferences would have a mix of teams. You didn't really state anything. Show me where you DIDN'T say they would go to another conference. I think you need to rethink your whole plan/non plan. If a team gets relegated where do you think they'll go? sounds like you think they'll just stay in the same conference? but like at the little kids table? recruits will just love coming to a team in a sub par part of some anonymous conference. Go ahead and state your relegation plan so we all know what you're talking about. |
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Post by skolgophers on Nov 25, 2023 22:13:11 GMT -5
Haven’t read through this thread, so if this is a repeat, my bad!
You know why March Madness is so exciting? Upsets. You will never see an upset in this tournament with home court advantage until the final 4. There is a reason 1/2 seeds make up the final four year after year.
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Post by noblesol on Nov 25, 2023 22:36:51 GMT -5
Did not propose relegation or promotion to new conferences. Stated up front, most conferences would have a mix of teams. You didn't really state anything. Show me where you DIDN'T say they would go to another conference. I think you need to rethink your whole plan/non plan. If a team gets relegated where do you think they'll go? sounds like you think they'll just stay in the same conference? but like at the little kids table? recruits will just love coming to a team in a sub par part of some anonymous conference. Go ahead and state your relegation plan so we all know what you're talking about. Teams wouldn't switch conferences. Formalization of promotion-relegation doesn't require it. Just as teams competing in the NIVC come from the 32 conferences, teams would compete for their 'league' tournament based on their current league assignment. If they do well in their league assignment, they'd be in the mix for promotion the following season. Most conferences have a mix of teams that are currently semi-permanent upper/mid/lower. The mids and lowers are already recruiting challenged. Promotion-Relegation would help those teams. Even, maybe especially, those that are currently fodder in the NCAAT Round 1. And those with little or no shot at the current NCAAT would be helped. With promotion-relegation and three levels of tournament leagues, they'd still have a great shot at tournament play within their league, one where they'll be competitive. Where if they do well they'd then have a great shot at promotion. Teams that are perma-fixtures in the upper would have no problem with promotion-relegation helping the mids and lowers with their student-athlete experience, and the conferences wouldn't complain if their mid and lower programs benefit from a greater opportunity for post-season play within their respectively more competition suitable league tournaments. I recognized immediately that in the U.S. we are 'conference' oriented. I didn't make a bold statement about it, I didn't think it was required. From the few rules I laid down, I assumed incorrectly most would understand I wasn't suggesting they be done away with. Many schools pick and choose a conference and switch for various reasons. But a formal system of promotion-relegation doesn't require it. The trick to making it work with conferences is establishing separate hierarchal based tournaments, and a few new rules regarding RPI and scheduling. Since those RPI penalties and bonuses, including a schedule bonus, represent an informal 'promotion-relegation' system. 'Multiple hierarchal tournaments' is currently done in a half-baked and financially unsupported way with the NIVC. 'Promotion-Relegation' is currently done in a half-assed screwing of the non-power conference way through RPI bad loss penalties, RPI top 25 and top 50 bonuses, and an RPI scheduling bonus. Half-baked and half-assed is a sad condition of the current state of DIV-I with its RPI based promotion-relegation. The NIVC 'pressure outlet' has been the sop for the mess the RPI system has baked into the current DIV-I state of affairs. |
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