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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 2, 2023 10:18:23 GMT -5
Baylor is a private, Christian University so by their faith, they wouldn't support homosexuality. The further Baylor goes into supporting LGBTQ+ agendas, the further they move away from their faith. This doesn't mean I don't think they shouldn't accept gay students but why would a devoutly gay student want to attend a Christian university if they don't believe in what the Bible stands for? Don't you think that's like asking for an experience that doesn't align with who students think they are? Personally, I have no problem with gay people. People are much more than their sexual preference. Nah, Karen I was starting to like you. Don’t do this to meeee 😭 Not the “why would the oppressed want to mingle with the oppressor” argument, when Baylor and its grad schools are quite toppy top in academic excellence…Bestieee, read it again and replace with the history of ra€ism to see how slippery this slope is. Kare bear 😭 and houstonbear, babes, the devil doesn’t need an advocate. Glad it worked out for you, though! 💪🏿 Sharing my real world experience is not playing devil’s advocate, especially when I haven’t denied that Baylor historically hasn’t been queer-friendly. I’m just noting that Baylor has progressed enough that queer students are able to be successful, make connections, and graduate with a sense of belonging that wasn’t as achievable even just a decade ago. I had many queer friends while at Baylor, and I can’t think of any that left with animosity around how they were treated while there. A lot of them, including myself, still return for homecoming, because we did have such good experiences and value the time we spent on campus. Having attended/worked at multiple universities in Texas and other states, there are many public universities that are far more dangerous for queer students. |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Dec 2, 2023 12:01:27 GMT -5
I have no dog in this fight but the match was over lol, couldn't you just... change the channel? This is a little funny to me because, when the match was over, and Kentucky was re-treating to the locker room, it was Baylor who went towards Kentucky. Couldn't Baylor just have stayed on their side of the net..? If Kentucky was THAT invested in the 'invitation'... The camera captured all of that too. They could have turned away -- but we know why the media wants to broadcast it. And, that's problematic in itself. I know a lot of college kids are developing their identity (some convert - some abandon their religious faith). Imagine someone with a complicated religious past, which IMO is none of their teammates business or the opposing team, particularly on public universities, being broadcast on ESPN with their family watching seeing them walk away from a prayer and not join their teammates. Even if there is no repercussions, ostracizing within the team, it may be experienced elsewhere. I dislike the 'invite' - it's not forced by any means, but it is forcing individuals to make a decision and possibly have conversations that shouldn't necessarily be had, which, I think is problematic. (also, since people are probably curious about what this prayer looks like, this is what it was some years back with Wisco-Baylor. I feel like opinions could vary based on context, so, here is some) |
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Post by donut on Dec 2, 2023 12:06:59 GMT -5
I grew up in central Texas and Baylor has f*cked up many queer kids. So forgive me for hating hollow, seemingly desperate, Baylor prayer circles viewers didn’t sign up for watching an NCAA tournament match at a public institution. I have no dog in this fight but the match was over lol, couldn't you just... change the channel? no one signs up for commercials either but we all still get them lol. I also think it's unfair to put your opinion of the university as a whole onto the players themselves. im agnostic for what its worth, but just because you have issue with the university doesnt mean the volleyball teams specific prayer circle is hollow or desperate. you may think that of Baylor in general - but I just dont see what the volleyball team did wrong here It’s hollow because it’s not even in line with scripture. It’s desperate because I have eyes. If Baylor wants to virtue signal on national TV during a volleyball match, I’m sure as hell going to comment on it and not just change the channel. Baylor players asked for this when they decided not to pray privately. There’s plenty wrong with what the volleyball team does here — y’all just haven’t been able to rebut any of those points. |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Dec 2, 2023 12:15:44 GMT -5
all players and staff were completely okay with it. I agree its a little much for Baylor to follow them across the court, but I also dont think its nearly as big of an issue as its being made on here. not to say all the things posted on here is incorrect, ive seen a ton of good points made from multiple people and I fully understand both sides of the spectrum from going up in a devout catholic family to moving away from faith all together. I have a TON of issues with christianity personally, but I dont think the Baylor volleyball teams prayer circle is doing as much harm as other seem to think it is - I actually dont think its causing any harm at all lol 'all players and staff were completely okay with it'. This makes me feel like you are extremely close with the Kentucky team, and if you are not and do not have a relationship with each individual player, I find that a dangerous statement to make. Even so, I have, doubts about that. Because even as a member of a team (whether a player, manager, coach, or support staff in the past) I can't say there's any group I would have been comfortable saying everyone was completely OK with something. In my experience, you sometimes find out things even *years* later that people were not comfortable expressing in the moment. In a sport of anywhere from 17-24 year olds on a team .... that's natural. I don't think I have ever said it is causing or doing harm, but it certainly has potential to do so! I can say that I know of similar situations where people cannot or were not willing to speak up due to fear of repercussions or shame, guilt, etc. I think the younger generation is better/less likely to GAF honestly, but in a team setting, the dynamics are very different. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 12:16:11 GMT -5
*I’ll back off on responding to the first two paragraphs* But just wanted to offer the perspective that it’s possible to apply to 10 med schools, and only get into BCM. Turn down the offer and you’ll certainly never see another med school offer as a reapplicant, bc yes they will see your past offers and know u turned them down. Just an example. Where you see a “choice,” many see resignation to a last resort and accepting systemic exclusion. Real talk 😊 Baylor College of Medicine is not operated by Baylor University and hasn’t been since 1969. Once you decide you’re a victim you find the evidence everywhere. I know because I come from a mostly black family. Problem is none of it is helpful and most of it isn’t real. |
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Post by stanfordvb on Dec 2, 2023 12:17:50 GMT -5
all players and staff were completely okay with it. I agree its a little much for Baylor to follow them across the court, but I also dont think its nearly as big of an issue as its being made on here. not to say all the things posted on here is incorrect, ive seen a ton of good points made from multiple people and I fully understand both sides of the spectrum from going up in a devout catholic family to moving away from faith all together. I have a TON of issues with christianity personally, but I dont think the Baylor volleyball teams prayer circle is doing as much harm as other seem to think it is - I actually dont think its causing any harm at all lol 'all players and staff were completely okay with it'. This makes me feel like you are extremely close with the Kentucky team bingo maybe some of them were hiding some deep rooted religious trauma in the moment - but I dont think that was the case, I guess that will remain an unknown |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Dec 2, 2023 12:22:05 GMT -5
'all players and staff were completely okay with it'. This makes me feel like you are extremely close with the Kentucky team bingo maybe some of them were hiding some deep rooted religious trauma in the moment - but I dont think that was the case, I guess that will remain an unknown Thank you for making my point! I think you can also understand why they may feel uncomfortable expressing if they weren't okay with it. You went from completely okay with it to acknowledging that you don't "think" that was the case. But maybe you could share some insight with us. Did it have to be a unanimous decision? If so, was it anonymous? Was it pitched to the team as a "hey, join if you're comfortable, if not, go back to the locker room or stand on the side of the court and we'll meet you after". |
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 2, 2023 12:55:49 GMT -5
bingo maybe some of them were hiding some deep rooted religious trauma in the moment - but I dont think that was the case, I guess that will remain an unknown Thank you for making my point! I think you can also understand why they may feel uncomfortable expressing if they weren't okay with it. You went from completely okay with it to acknowledging that you don't "think" that was the case. But maybe you could share some insight with us. Did it have to be a unanimous decision? If so, was it anonymous? Was it pitched to the team as a "hey, join if you're comfortable, if not, go back to the locker room or stand on the side of the court and we'll meet you after". What you’re describing is a problem in society/culture that is independent of Baylor volleyball. If a player were to feel shamed by teammates or fear of repercussions by coaches, that is an underlying issue that is present whether Baylor offers an invitation or not. Teams will always come across situations that test identity/belief and coaches have the opportunity to foster a culture in which all players know they are supported wherever they find themselves in those situations. |
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 2, 2023 13:53:08 GMT -5
I have no dog in this fight but the match was over lol, couldn't you just... change the channel? no one signs up for commercials either but we all still get them lol. I also think it's unfair to put your opinion of the university as a whole onto the players themselves. im agnostic for what its worth, but just because you have issue with the university doesnt mean the volleyball teams specific prayer circle is hollow or desperate. you may think that of Baylor in general - but I just dont see what the volleyball team did wrong here It’s hollow because it’s not even in line with scripture. It’s desperate because I have eyes. If Baylor wants to virtue signal on national TV during a volleyball match, I’m sure as hell going to comment on it and not just change the channel. Baylor players asked for this when they decided not to pray privately. There’s plenty wrong with what the volleyball team does here — y’all just haven’t been able to rebut any of those points. How does it not align with scripture? And how does the Baylor volleyball team, who represents a Christian university, "virtue signal" by praying with another team when the aligns with their faith? |
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Post by slxpress on Dec 2, 2023 14:04:15 GMT -5
I had no idea this conversation was going on. I have to catch up.
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Post by slxpress on Dec 2, 2023 14:07:22 GMT -5
YOU! You are the start of this, lol. Just reading through the thread, and had to go back 6 pages to find the origin. |
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Post by donut on Dec 2, 2023 14:22:54 GMT -5
It’s hollow because it’s not even in line with scripture. It’s desperate because I have eyes. If Baylor wants to virtue signal on national TV during a volleyball match, I’m sure as hell going to comment on it and not just change the channel. Baylor players asked for this when they decided not to pray privately. There’s plenty wrong with what the volleyball team does here — y’all just haven’t been able to rebut any of those points. How does it not align with scripture? “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.“ Matthew 6:5-6 |
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Post by donut on Dec 2, 2023 14:30:17 GMT -5
Thank you for making my point! I think you can also understand why they may feel uncomfortable expressing if they weren't okay with it. You went from completely okay with it to acknowledging that you don't "think" that was the case. But maybe you could share some insight with us. Did it have to be a unanimous decision? If so, was it anonymous? Was it pitched to the team as a "hey, join if you're comfortable, if not, go back to the locker room or stand on the side of the court and we'll meet you after". What you’re describing is a problem in society/culture that is independent of Baylor volleyball. Exactly. Hence why Baylor should this whole show off the volleyball court. It has nothing to do with NCAA volleyball. |
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Post by VT Karen on Dec 2, 2023 14:49:17 GMT -5
How does it not align with scripture? “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.“ Matthew 6:5-6 So there is context to this scripture. When Jesus said this, He had the religious leaders of that time, the Pharisees, in mind (Matthew 5:20). The Pharisees are greedy and self-indulgent religious leaders who feigned piety and faith in the Lord by praying repetitious prayers on street corners and with outstretched arms in synagogues where the goal was to impress other people instead of coming into communion with the Father. Above all, the Pharisees were legalistic in their approach to scripture and their "faith" which relegated them to being akin to "a noisy gong or banging cymbal." With that in mind, when Jesus is talking about praying publicly, He is speaking about matters of and the position of one's heart when they pray. Being a Christian university, Baylor teams praying is in line with the faith their institution was built on and true communication with God, whether public or private, has profound effects. |
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Post by donut on Dec 2, 2023 15:01:45 GMT -5
You can’t use context to completely negate the plain text of the verse. Pray in private. In your room behind a closed door. That’s what Jesus instructed.
But noted, as always, Christian’s’ selectively being Bible literalists.
Regardless, I don’t care what the Bible says. The Baylor prayer thing has no place in an NCAA game. No one has rebutted that, the only thing people have offered up is “it’s not that bad” in response to valid concerns about peer pressure and individual decision-making.
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