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Post by vbruh on Sept 2, 2024 12:04:51 GMT -5
I think you are missing the point. We have 3 L/DS on the roster. All 3 had “designations” in the lineup. One of which was Z(L), Thibault(DS for Grote), and Gray (serving sub for MB). There was no one else they could have designated to be a backup L as all 3 had spots in the lineup. Ng and Minatee are backup setters, not L/DS My question isn't specific to Minnesota's current roster; the question occurred to me during yesterday's match, but the question is a general one. ------------------ As for the current Minn roster: Gray, Acevado, Ng, McGhie, etc, as a second libero, in case Z is getting lit up; if for no other reason than to give her a five minute mental break in a set that is 'gone', like the 4th set yesterday. (Yes, I'm aware that Gray can't be both a SS and a second libero.) With the current roster, no way can Gophers employ a 2L system. The only choice they have is Kate in Bro jersey and Z as DS (which I predict today). Gray is a serve specialist only although Elise could return to that role as she was last season. Alex will only sub in for a fellow Pin, no way can you use her in another position. Crowl could be used as a spot sub for a struggling Bro, as apparently she is a very accomplished defender, which could translate to a decent passer (the 2 skills are quite different for those who do t know). |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Sept 2, 2024 12:08:08 GMT -5
I think Pitt is (arizona isn’t “major” but we’ve been using it too) Pitt is just using it as a serving sub, I think. ahhh that makes sense |
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Post by GoGophs on Sept 2, 2024 12:22:40 GMT -5
It was obviously wayyyy too many SEs vs Stanford but I’m actually not mad at HOW they errored, most either just barely missed a line or hit the top of the tape. Those are tough serves in the making that’ll get more consistent as the season goes on. A lot of the serving resulted in some fantastic blocks too… clean up the slop against Texas and it could be more competitive than I originally expected
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Post by comet on Sept 2, 2024 12:29:14 GMT -5
I would be shocked if we see Kate as libero instead of Z. I think Cook has shown us he doesn't make changes like that. His starting lineup is his starting lineup. But maybe if Z hasn't totally won the spot yet? 🤷♀️
I'm thinking the Gophs will be tired after a tough 5 set loss their first game of the season so tempering my expectations. I hope if the starters are tired/not playing well we'll use the bench more.
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Post by zero-rotation outside hitter on Sept 2, 2024 12:33:17 GMT -5
I would be shocked if we see Kate as libero instead of Z. I think Cook has shown us he doesn't make changes like that. His starting lineup is his starting lineup. But maybe if Z hasn't totally won the spot yet? 🤷♀️ I'm thinking the Gophs will be tired after a tough 5 set loss their first game of the season so tempering my expectations. I hope if the starters are tired/not playing well we'll use the bench more. You're probably right, but with the way Keegan kind of described having kept players in longer than he should have last year, it sort of sounded like he was more willing to go to the bench/mix things up this season. If we're in a scenario where Z had the edge over Thibault to start, but he's taking it match by match, I can't imagine yesterday's serve receive performance would've helped' Z's chances of keeping the bro jersey. |
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Post by comet on Sept 2, 2024 12:39:44 GMT -5
I would be shocked if we see Kate as libero instead of Z. I think Cook has shown us he doesn't make changes like that. His starting lineup is his starting lineup. But maybe if Z hasn't totally won the spot yet? 🤷♀️ I'm thinking the Gophs will be tired after a tough 5 set loss their first game of the season so tempering my expectations. I hope if the starters are tired/not playing well we'll use the bench more. You're probably right, but with the way Keegan kind of described having kept players in longer than he should have last year, it sort of sounded like he was more willing to go to the bench/mix things up this season. If we're in a scenario where Z had the edge over Thibault to start, but he's taking it match by match, I can't imagine yesterday's serve receive performance would've helped' Z's chances of keeping the bro jersey. Z had a rough stretch in SR that's for sure, but she was solid at the beginning of the match and was solid defensively so I don't think they'd completely switch her out because of pthat. It doesn't seem like Cooks MO. I'd like to see some change to help her out but not sure what. |
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Post by babyhusker on Sept 2, 2024 12:48:50 GMT -5
You're probably right, but with the way Keegan kind of described having kept players in longer than he should have last year, it sort of sounded like he was more willing to go to the bench/mix things up this season. If we're in a scenario where Z had the edge over Thibault to start, but he's taking it match by match, I can't imagine yesterday's serve receive performance would've helped' Z's chances of keeping the bro jersey. Z had a rough stretch in SR that's for sure, but she was solid at the beginning of the match and was solid defensively so I don't think they'd completely switch her out because of pthat. It doesn't seem like Cooks MO. I'd like to see some change to help her out but not sure what. A great point. He likes to stick to his starters and let them play it out. I do think she has a great ceiling and in-game reps can only help, as long as it doesn’t hinder the Gophers’ ability to win in the moment. |
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Post by maigrey on Sept 2, 2024 12:51:41 GMT -5
My question isn't specific to Minnesota's current roster; the question occurred to me during yesterday's match, but the question is a general one. ------------------ As for the current Minn roster: Gray, Acevado, Ng, McGhie, etc, as a second libero, in case Z is getting lit up; if for no other reason than to give her a five minute mental break in a set that is 'gone', like the 4th set yesterday. (Yes, I'm aware that Gray can't be both a SS and a second libero.) With the current roster, no way can Gophers employ a 2L system. The only choice they have is Kate in Bro jersey and Z as DS (which I predict today). Gray is a serve specialist only although Elise could return to that role as she was last season. Alex will only sub in for a fellow Pin, no way can you use her in another position. Crowl could be used as a spot sub for a struggling Bro, as apparently she is a very accomplished defender, which could translate to a decent passer (the 2 skills are quite different for those who do t know). I mean, you could put Grey in the 2L jersey even if she's just going to serve sub, and then save on some of your subs if you want. |
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Post by gopherhim on Sept 2, 2024 12:57:13 GMT -5
With the current roster, no way can Gophers employ a 2L system. The only choice they have is Kate in Bro jersey and Z as DS (which I predict today). Gray is a serve specialist only although Elise could return to that role as she was last season. Alex will only sub in for a fellow Pin, no way can you use her in another position. Crowl could be used as a spot sub for a struggling Bro, as apparently she is a very accomplished defender, which could translate to a decent passer (the 2 skills are quite different for those who do t know). I mean, you could put Grey in the 2L jersey even if she's just going to serve sub, and then save on some of your subs if you want. No because the two liberos can only serve in the same service rotation position. Yesterday Z served for one middle and Gray served for the other, which they wouldn’t be able to do if Gray was in a libero jersey. Gray and Z would have to serve for only one of the middles. |
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Post by volleysota on Sept 2, 2024 13:19:22 GMT -5
I mean, you could put Grey in the 2L jersey even if she's just going to serve sub, and then save on some of your subs if you want. No because the two liberos can only serve in the same service rotation position. Yesterday Z served for one middle and Gray served for the other, which they wouldn’t be able to do if Gray was in a libero jersey. Gray and Z would have to serve for only one of the middles. This is right. If Gray or someone else had the 2nd libero jersey and was declared, then if the L serves for, example, Phoebe... Gray could come in and serve for Phoebe and then Z could come back in as the libero after her service run is over. The libero spot can only seve for one spot in the lineup once they go back to serve for someone. |
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Post by volleysota on Sept 2, 2024 13:24:04 GMT -5
Okay… rule book lookup!!!  rbvl.com/VBR24.pdf#page50 (gets close, anyway) 1) You can designate 0, 1, or 2 players as L’s each set when the lineup is submitted. You are limited to that *number* (or fewer) L’s during the set. So no saying that Z is the one Libero, and then adding a second later. Only if Z were to be injured would you be able to replace her, and then she’d be out for the rest of the set, at least. (The only exception is that, if you forget to list L’s on the sheet, the coach may “without delay” correct that mistake by telling the R2 who the one or two L’s will be.) 2) Rule 12 doesn’t make it clear, but 11.3.5.5 specifically states that if a L is injured, you can designate a replacement L for her, even if she is one of two L’s. (I.e. you can designate a new L and continue to have two L’s.) 3) Fun fact rule… the L jersey(s) must be immediately distinguishable from the other players’ jerseys, but is there are two L’s, they don’t need to match. So the team wearing white, Z in maroon, and Kate in gold would be an acceptable thing, if they really wanted. That pretty much nails it, on all 3 accounts. I don't know how the NCAA lineup sheets look, but for USAV, you have two boxes for liberos. You can either put the player's number in the box, or an "X" indicating no libero. So odds are the Gophers are putting [12] [X] in the libero boxes, which means Z is the libero for the set. If Z were to get injured and the Gophers wanted to use a new libero in the same set, I think that may be an exceptional substitution (ie Z would be done for the match at that point). If they had [12][15] with Gray or whoever as L2, then that wouldn't be an issue as you could slide Gray in and then still have Z available for the following set, or vice-versa. |
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Post by slxpress on Sept 2, 2024 13:28:12 GMT -5
Okay… rule book lookup!!! rbvl.com/VBR24.pdf#page50 (gets close, anyway) 1) You can designate 0, 1, or 2 players as L’s each set when the lineup is submitted. You are limited to that *number* (or fewer) L’s during the set. So no saying that Z is the one Libero, and then adding a second later. Only if Z were to be injured would you be able to replace her, and then she’d be out for the rest of the set, at least. (The only exception is that, if you forget to list L’s on the sheet, the coach may “without delay” correct that mistake by telling the R2 who the one or two L’s will be.) 2) Rule 12 doesn’t make it clear, but 11.3.5.5 specifically states that if a L is injured, you can designate a replacement L for her, even if she is one of two L’s. (I.e. you can designate a new L and continue to have two L’s.) 3) Fun fact rule… the L jersey(s) must be immediately distinguishable from the other players’ jerseys, but is there are two L’s, they don’t need to match. So the team wearing white, Z in maroon, and Kate in gold would be an acceptable thing, if they really wanted. That pretty much nails it, on all 3 accounts. I don't know how the NCAA lineup sheets look, but for USAV, you have two boxes for liberos. You can either put the player's number in the box, or an "X" indicating no libero. So odds are the Gophers are putting [12] [X] in the libero boxes, which means Z is the libero for the set. If Z were to get injured and the Gophers wanted to use a new libero in the same set, I think that may be an exceptional substitution (ie Z would be done for the match at that point). If they had [12][15] with Gray or whoever as L2, then that wouldn't be an issue as you could slide Gray in and then still have Z available for the following set, or vice-versa. |
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Post by mcmike on Sept 2, 2024 14:24:51 GMT -5
Crunch Time in Set 1: MN vs Stanford
20' mark
Jordan Harvey is a LOAD
On the first mishandle by Z the serve was going long, but Z had no help. otoh, when you are 5' from the baseline and try to play the serve above your shoulders (overhand) you've messed up. DUCK.
Phoebe didn't dispute a net call on set point, no one noticed it was Rubin in net even while MN was in t.o. (is it too late too challenge then?)
Shaff's OOS setting here was SUPERIOR.
MN St
19 17 St. kill after weak Shaff set to Wookie
19 18 FBSO Thib. OOS to Shaff bump back inside to Wookie for xcourt kill. SUPER Ex. of bettering the ball
20 18 Harvey misses a tool on set from Libero
21 18 Shaff Serv. ace
22 18 St. t.o.
22 19 FBSO to Harvey after tough serve and good pass
23 19 FBSO by Grote (inside & xcourt) after diving reception by Z
24 19 Miner set error
24 20 SE by Wookie just long
24 21 Harvey Z mishandles serve going long
24 21 MN t.o.
24 22 Z aced by better serve just inside end line
24 23 Z bad pass,Phoebe called for net when it was Rubin who netted
24 23 MN t.o.
24 24 Z shank pass to Hanson outside left sideline & Grote blocked
24 25 Z aced again
25 25 FBSO Z pass to attack line for good back set and down the line by Grote NICE
25 26 FBSO to OPP
26 26 well played pt. ending in Grote x-court cut shot after beautiful back bump set by Shaff tight to net
27 26 VERY well played pt. Grote's serve > OOS > good block touch > great pass by Wookie > good set by Shaff > Hanson tooling block
28 26 Grote's serve > pass behind attack line > Minatee block
Credit to the Gophers for maintaining composure and playing great vball to stem the tide and win.
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Post by mcmike on Sept 2, 2024 15:34:25 GMT -5
I suspect that after the convincing 3rd set win a suggestion was made to cut back on the service errors. Softer serving gave Stanford the opening to be in system the entire 4th set hitting over 550 and siding out near 80%. I could be all wet and will be looking at the video review and play by play. Harvey's service run from 2-2 to 7-2 knocked the stuffing out of MN in set 4. Shaff had some amazing OOS sets at 1-1, 4-11, 5-12 MN scored only 3 pts on their serve, 2 of them were Gray aces. Softer serving had little to do with it (except wookie at 10-16 & Hanson at 13-23). Stanford had FBSOs the first few times they received serve on good passing and MN did not appear to be serving lollipops. |
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Post by vonner on Sept 2, 2024 16:41:05 GMT -5
Is any major team using the double libero besides Wisconsin? Tennessee used three different ones yesterday. They had two per set and the switched who was wearing the L jerseys between sets. |
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