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Post by noblesol on Aug 26, 2024 20:36:38 GMT -5
No more than one BWC WBB team has been in the NCAAT since 1994. And the NCAAT field is 68 (four more than for WVB, with the same # of conferences.)
No BWC WBB team has gone farther than the first round of the NCAAT since 2004.
Beeman has three NCAAT appearances, 2016, 2022, 2023. Her record is 0-3 in the NCAAT. Ah Mow has appeared in every eligible NCAAT during her tenure, six times with one season covid canceled (5-6 record). Knocked out of the first round twice, out of second round three times, out of the sweet sixteen once. Ah Mow compares favorably with Shoji's last seven seasons in post-season results.
BWC WBB the past four seasons has varied in Final RPI conference rank between #21 and #29, out of thirty-two conferences (plus one independent). The weakest conference RPI rank finish of BWC WVB during that same period is #19 this past season, which is the weakest it's been during Ah Mow's tenure. BWC WVB has grown significantly weaker across the conference since expansion, but particularly in its bottom tier of UC Riverside, CSUN, CSUB, and CSUF. And it's dragging down the rest of the conference volleyball upper tier with it.
So, BWC WBB is much weaker than BWC WVB. But, unfortunately, BWC WVB has of late been weakening as well. I'd personally much prefer that the Hawai'i AD pour more resources into Hawai'i WVB and stop wasting $1 million/year in red ink on WBB. The return on the dollar for investing in WVB and Ah Mow is going to be much greater than what he'll get from draining funds and marketing effort into WBB.
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Post by hapaguy on Aug 26, 2024 20:38:47 GMT -5
"Easier to get better than to maintain" - Robyn hasn't even maintained THAT'S THE POINT!!! The program is going downhill and and she can't even get any meaningful transfers in the off-season. A 13 player roster? Someone's not doing their job! "Dave Shoji was getting ousted in the second round towards the end of his career." & "His final 7 seasons were 5 second round drop outs" - His team were nationally ranked even in the twilight of his career and in Dave's last 8 years Dave's teams went to the Final Four (2009), made the Regional Semifinal (2011), made the Regional Final (2015) and got bounced in the 2nd round 5 times. In Robyn's last 7 years we've been ranked once and GOT BOUNCED IN THE 1ST ROUND 4 OF THE 6 TIMES SHE MADE IT TO THE TOURNAMENT! And you call that "maintaining"? Get a grip... 3/6 numb nut 2017-2018 first round 2019 suite 16 2021 second round 2022 First 2023 second The game has also changed numb nut USC, ucla, etc are not what they used to be either.. So I was off by one BFD! That's still more than Dave had in his WHOLE CAREER. And yes, I've heard all those lame ass excuses about the game changing so save your breath "numb nuts". Yes, things have changed but Robyn hasn't been able to keep up. She can't even get any offseason transfers and we have the smallest roster we've probably ever had. Also, she's barely able to win the weak ass Big West Conference. She's placed 2nd in conference 3 of the 6 years shes been HC. And pointing out that other teams are not what they used to be either really doesn't help your argument. It's EXACTLY what I am sounding the alarm bells about! I don't want to see our beloved team become another Pacific, Long Beach or UCLA...that's the point...
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Post by koavball on Aug 26, 2024 20:39:50 GMT -5
Nothing you have posted is “fact”. Especially the bs about Beeman having “lower resources” than Robyn. Wahine volleyball in Shoji’s last years was already in decline and the NIL/portal era since covid is definitely effecting all non p4 teams in volleyball even more (even teams like ucla are struggling to keep up) you OLD !!!!###$$$!!!ing dimwit. Robyn is still managing to have her team be competitive in the ncaa tournament and her team makes money! Beeman has been on the job 5-6 years longer with more resources and salary and can’t even come close to that. LOL people revere you on here but you are so dumb! When Beeman took over the UH Wahine Basketball program it hadn't been to the postseason in over 9 years! Since Beeman took over she's taken her team to the postseason 8 of her 12 years and to the NCAA tournament 3 times! BEEMAN HAS ELEVATED HER TEAM SINCE SHE TOOK OVER - THOSE ARE FACTS! And what has Robyn done since she took over? We were perenially nationally ranked - every year except the injury plagued year of 1992 and since Robyn took over we've been ranked what? ONCE?! Again, NOT ELEVATING THE PROGRAM BUT A DECLINE OF THE PROGRAM. In all the years that Dave has made it to the tournament they were only bounced 2 TIMES in the 1st Round (84 & 97). Robyn has been bounced in the 1st Round 4 of the 6 times she's made it to the tournament! Hardly a "maintaining" or "elevating" of the program in FACT its a DECLINE. And now she only has a 13 player roster? She couldn't even recruit a single transfer player of note during the offseason! Total fail... Keep posting fake BS old clown..
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Post by koavball on Aug 26, 2024 20:42:34 GMT -5
No more than one BWC WBB team has been in the NCAAT since 1994. And the NCAAT field is 68 (four more than for WVB, with the same # of conferences.) No BWC WBB team has gone farther than the first round of the NCAAT since 2004. Beeman has three NCAAT appearances, 2016, 2022, 2023. Her record is 0-3 in the NCAAT. Ah Mow has appeared in every eligible NCAAT during her tenure, six times with one season covid canceled (5-6 record). Knocked out of the first round twice, out of second round three times, out of the sweet sixteen once. Ah Mow compares favorably with Shoji's last seven seasons in post-season results. BWC the past four seasons has varied in Final RPI conference rank between #21 and #29, out of thirty-two conferences (plus one independent). The weakest conference RPI rank finish of BWC WVB during that same period is #19 this past season, which is the weakest it's been during Ah Mows tenure. BWC WVB has grown significantly weaker across the conference since expansion, but particularly in its bottom tier of UC Riverside, CSUN, CSUB, and CSUF. And it's dragging down the rest of the conference volleyball upper tier with it. So, BWC WBB is much weaker than BWC WVB. But, unfortunately, BWC WVB has of late been weakening as well. I'd personally much prefer that the Hawai'i AD pour more resources into Hawai'i WVB and stop wasting $1 million/year in red ink on WBB. The return on the dollar for investing in WVB and Ah Mow is going to be much greater than what he'll get from draining funds and marketing effort into WBB. UHAD keeps pouring money down the drain with women’s basketball because of title 9. I hope the people in charge realize they need to invest ALOT more in their money makers.
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Post by hapaguy on Aug 26, 2024 20:42:37 GMT -5
LOL people revere you on here but you are so dumb! When Beeman took over the UH Wahine Basketball program it hadn't been to the postseason in over 9 years! Since Beeman took over she's taken her team to the postseason 8 of her 12 years and to the NCAA tournament 3 times! BEEMAN HAS ELEVATED HER TEAM SINCE SHE TOOK OVER - THOSE ARE FACTS! And what has Robyn done since she took over? We were perenially nationally ranked - every year except the injury plagued year of 1992 and since Robyn took over we've been ranked what? ONCE?! Again, NOT ELEVATING THE PROGRAM BUT A DECLINE OF THE PROGRAM. In all the years that Dave has made it to the tournament they were only bounced 2 TIMES in the 1st Round (84 & 97). Robyn has been bounced in the 1st Round 4 of the 6 times she's made it to the tournament! Hardly a "maintaining" or "elevating" of the program in FACT its a DECLINE. And now she only has a 13 player roster? She couldn't even recruit a single transfer player of note during the offseason! Total fail... Keep posting fake BS old clown.. LOL when you can't deal in facts you resort to name calling...and you call me a clown?...LOL
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Post by hapaguy on Aug 26, 2024 20:49:19 GMT -5
No more than one BWC WBB team has been in the NCAAT since 1994. And the NCAAT field is 68 (four more than for WVB, with the same # of conferences.) No BWC WBB team has gone farther than the first round of the NCAAT since 2004. Beeman has three NCAAT appearances, 2016, 2022, 2023. Her record is 0-3 in the NCAAT. Ah Mow has appeared in every eligible NCAAT during her tenure, six times with one season covid canceled (5-6 record). Knocked out of the first round twice, out of second round three times, out of the sweet sixteen once. Ah Mow compares favorably with Shoji's last seven seasons in post-season results. BWC WBB the past four seasons has varied in Final RPI conference rank between #21 and #29, out of thirty-two conferences (plus one independent). The weakest conference RPI rank finish of BWC WVB during that same period is #19 this past season, which is the weakest it's been during Ah Mows tenure. BWC WVB has grown significantly weaker across the conference since expansion, but particularly in its bottom tier of UC Riverside, CSUN, CSUB, and CSUF. And it's dragging down the rest of the conference volleyball upper tier with it. So, BWC WBB is much weaker than BWC WVB. But, unfortunately, BWC WVB has of late been weakening as well. I'd personally much prefer that the Hawai'i AD pour more resources into Hawai'i WVB and stop wasting $1 million/year in red ink on WBB. The return on the dollar for investing in WVB and Ah Mow is going to be much greater than what he'll get from draining funds and marketing effort into WBB. You keep missing the point! The point that HawaiiMongoose and I are making is NOT comparing the two programs or two sports against each other. The point is comparing what the two coaches have done with their programs since they took it over: one coach (Beeman) has elevated her program and one coach (Robyn) hasn't. That's the point HawaiiMongoose made that I wholeheartedly agree with. And contrary to what koavball keeps saying IT'S A FACT.
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Post by wang pu on Aug 26, 2024 20:54:44 GMT -5
It’s not hard to elevate the basketball team. It’s like going from an F to a D. Maybe a C. Hard to maintain an A, cause it’s already so good She may have gone down to a b plus but it’s still better than beeman They don’t know %*$#. Goo had his team competitive in the ncaa tournament when they got in, they would sometimes even be ranked during some seasons. Beeman can’t even come close to that..The disrespect for Vince Goo in this thread by the same negative clowns is insane! Beeman is an upgrade over the previous coach who was a parks and rec office lady? Vince Goo is a gem! I love hearing him on Game On and seeing the interaction between him and Nani Cockett is so cute. You can tell they really care and respect for each other.
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Post by hapaguy on Aug 26, 2024 21:03:37 GMT -5
They don’t know %*$#. Goo had his team competitive in the ncaa tournament when they got in, they would sometimes even be ranked during some seasons. Beeman can’t even come close to that..The disrespect for Vince Goo in this thread by the same negative clowns is insane! Beeman is an upgrade over the previous coach who was a parks and rec office lady? Vince Goo is a gem! I love hearing him on Game On and seeing the interaction between him and Nani Cockett is so cute. You can tell they really care and respect for each other. Vince Goo is a legend! I used to sit right behind the bench at his games in Klum Gym back in the late 80's early 90's (before the Stan) so I could hear him coach and he was masterful how he would coach his ladies. He was such a good coach. Coach Goo was also a very funny guest speaker. I used to be an officer of the Honolulu Quarterbacks Club back in the 90's and we would always ask him to come speak. He was a wonderful and funny guest speaker! He once told this story about how when he was a small kid he once pushed a milk crate over to the window of the opposing teams locker room window during halftime so he could stand on it and listen to what adjustments the opposing teams were going to make in the second half so he could report it back to his dad Ah Chew Goo! So funny!
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Post by wahinefan on Aug 26, 2024 21:11:22 GMT -5
Laura Beeman, like Vince Goo, will become a Legend, by the time she is done coaching the Wahine Basketball Team. I cannot say the same thing for Robyn Ah Mow. Sadly, the only thing Robyn Ah Mow might be known for, when she is done coaching the Wahine Volleyball Team is, turning the Wahine Volleyball Team into a mediocre Team, a middle of the pack BWC Team.
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Post by noblesol on Aug 26, 2024 21:14:37 GMT -5
No more than one BWC WBB team has been in the NCAAT since 1994. And the NCAAT field is 68 (four more than for WVB, with the same # of conferences.) No BWC WBB team has gone farther than the first round of the NCAAT since 2004. Beeman has three NCAAT appearances, 2016, 2022, 2023. Her record is 0-3 in the NCAAT. Ah Mow has appeared in every eligible NCAAT during her tenure, six times with one season covid canceled (5-6 record). Knocked out of the first round twice, out of second round three times, out of the sweet sixteen once. Ah Mow compares favorably with Shoji's last seven seasons in post-season results. BWC WBB the past four seasons has varied in Final RPI conference rank between #21 and #29, out of thirty-two conferences (plus one independent). The weakest conference RPI rank finish of BWC WVB during that same period is #19 this past season, which is the weakest it's been during Ah Mows tenure. BWC WVB has grown significantly weaker across the conference since expansion, but particularly in its bottom tier of UC Riverside, CSUN, CSUB, and CSUF. And it's dragging down the rest of the conference volleyball upper tier with it. So, BWC WBB is much weaker than BWC WVB. But, unfortunately, BWC WVB has of late been weakening as well. I'd personally much prefer that the Hawai'i AD pour more resources into Hawai'i WVB and stop wasting $1 million/year in red ink on WBB. The return on the dollar for investing in WVB and Ah Mow is going to be much greater than what he'll get from draining funds and marketing effort into WBB. You keep missing the point! The point that HawaiiMongoose and I are making is NOT comparing the two programs or two sports against each other. The point is comparing what the two coaches have done with their programs since they took it over: one coach (Beeman) has elevated her program and one coach (Robyn) hasn't. That's the point HawaiiMongoose made that I wholeheartedly agree with. And contrary to what koavball keeps saying IT'S A FACT. I never denied that Beeman elevated what she'd received. I simply don't give it much weight. As pointed out, she took an 'F' program to at best a 'C' program that is the second biggest money losing program in the whole department. If football were still in Aloha Stadium, she'd have the Biggest Money Losing Program in the whole department, with the least amount of NCAAT wins to show for it. Zero; Nada; None. So, I don't give Beeman much applause for losing money left and right and having so little to show for it. While Ah Mow has generated small profits most years, has reached the NCAAT every year, was competitive in the NCAAT most years, and compared favorably to Shoji in his last seven years. During Ah Mow's tenure her program has had to deal with a greatly changing competitive landscape, where P5/4 schools were becoming football and MBB media giants raking in billions to their conferences, with their athletic departments expanding into the $250+ million per year range in expenditures. More than 5x as large as Hawai'i, and the gap growing each year. Still, Ah Mow had a Sweet Sixteen appearance. And then covid hit, the BWC went limp-wristed and cancelled her next season, and because of covid cancellations she lost key player and coaching talent. And yes, WBB had to deal with covid as well. But the momentum lost as an upper tier-2 team in WVB is much harder to regain than that of Tier-4 WBB program that has no serious post-season expectations. I know you don't appreciate that fact, but I'm not attacking you for your opinion. You are permitted yours.
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Post by wahinefan on Aug 26, 2024 21:19:16 GMT -5
Since Robyn Ah Mow is also a Club Coach, she should have great contact with other Club Coaches, whether in Hawaii, or on the Mainland. But this has not proven out to be the case, in Robyn's ability to recruit players. Wonder Why? Do the other Club Coaches think Robyn is just not that good a coach??? Makes one wonder.
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Post by HawaiiMongoose on Aug 26, 2024 21:39:58 GMT -5
Well, I see that the thread has livened up a bit since I visited late last night, LOL.
For those who want to crucify me for the post I wrote then, I respectfully suggest you go back and read it a little more closely. It was NOT written to criticize Robyn and her staff. Rather it was written to take issue with the viewpoint that it's okay to have "no expectations for this team" and "it will be a nice surprise if we are able to win the Big West."
What I specifically said is that Robyn has been successful in figuring out how to keep the Wahine volleyball NCAA tournament appearance streak alive in spite of the team's various ups and downs during her tenure, and that I don't expect "one iota less" from Robyn and her staff going forward. In other words, my expectation is that despite this upcoming season's challenges (e.g. lack of depth) they will once again figure out a way to get the Wahine back into the tournament, by either winning the Big West or earning an at-large bid, and if they don't I will consider that to be a disappointment. I daresay that if anyone here were to ask Robyn her opinion about that she would agree.
As for the comparison to Coach Beeman and women's basketball, it was meant to make the point that a program lacking certain advantages that Wahine volleyball enjoys (in terms of historical success that attracts recruits and fan support that can be leveraged for financial benefit) is finding ways to compete for the Big West title, so none of us should be satisfied with anything less from Wahine volleyball. If someone wants to make the case that it's an unfair comparison because the level of competition in women's volleyball in the Big West is higher than the level of competition in women's basketball, my response is that those aforementioned advantages have historically compensated for the higher level of competition in volleyball and should continue to do so.
Again, I'm not expecting Robyn to "outperform" Laura nor do I believe Robyn is "underperforming" compared to Laura. I'm expecting that both coaches will continue to do what they've been doing, which is to bring home more Big West championships to Manoa in their respective sports. My only issue is with those expressing contentment with settling for less. I believe everything Dave and Robyn have accomplished has been built on a foundation of refusing to settle for less, not now and not ever, but if anyone wants to criticize me for having that opinion then we can agree to disagree and peace be upon you.
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Post by noblesol on Aug 26, 2024 22:22:11 GMT -5
Well, I see that the thread has livened up a bit since I visited late last night, LOL. For those who want to crucify me for the post I wrote then, I respectfully suggest you go back and read it a little more closely. It was NOT written to criticize Robyn and her staff. Rather it was written to take issue with the viewpoint that it's okay to have "no expectations for this team" and "it will be a nice surprise if we are able to win the Big West." What I specifically said is that Robyn has been successful in figuring out how to keep the Wahine volleyball NCAA tournament appearance streak alive in spite of the team's various ups and downs during her tenure, and that I don't expect "one iota less" from Robyn and her staff going forward. In other words, my expectation is that despite this upcoming season's challenges (e.g. lack of depth) they will once again figure out a way to get the Wahine back into the tournament, by either winning the Big West or earning an at-large bid, and if they don't I will consider that to be a disappointment. I daresay that if anyone here were to ask Robyn her opinion about that she would agree. As for the comparison to Coach Beeman and women's basketball, it was meant to make the point that a program lacking certain advantages that Wahine volleyball enjoys (in terms of historical success that attracts recruits and fan support that can be leveraged for financial benefit) is finding ways to compete for the Big West title, so none of us should be satisfied with anything less from Wahine volleyball. If someone wants to make the case that it's an unfair comparison because the level of competition in women's volleyball in the Big West is higher than the level of competition in women's basketball, my response is that those aforementioned advantages have historically compensated for the higher level of competition in volleyball and should continue to do so. Again, I'm not expecting Robyn to "outperform" Laura nor do I believe Robyn is "underperforming" compared to Laura. I'm expecting that both coaches will continue to do what they've been doing, which is to bring home more Big West championships to Manoa in their respective sports. My only issue is with those expressing contentment with settling for less. I believe everything Dave and Robyn have accomplished has been built on a foundation of refusing to settle for less, not now and not ever, but if anyone wants to criticize me for having that opinion then we can agree to disagree and peace be upon you. Your original posting intent was clear in its first two paragraphs. Don't drop season expectations. All onboard. Even its third paragraph wasn't off the mark "It doesn't matter that UH isn't a power conference school. The Wahine have a level of visibility and popularity in the local community that rivals that of any women's volleyball program anywhere. With focused and competent leadership it should be possible to leverage that strong community support to generate the NIL funds and other resources necessary to remain at the top of the Big West." Ok with that too. But then the final paragraph went off the rails by holding up Beeman as a high example for Ah Mow to follow: "Laura Beeman is finding ways to do that for the UH women's basketball program and she doesn't have the benefit of 30 consecutive NCAA tournament bids or crowds of 6,000 plus in the SSC to impress potential new recruits. While Robyn has a very different style from Laura, so far she's figured out how to keep the NCAA tournament streak alive through the ups and downs of each year of her tenure, and I won't be content with one iota less from Robyn and her staff going forward." It failed to acknowledge that Ah Mow as both player and coach is responsible for much of the past and current success of the program, including putting people in the seats to the tune of 6,000+ sold tickets average per match and an unbroken string of consecutive NCAAT appearances. It's Beeman that should be taking notes from Ah Mow, on how to not to be the biggest money loser in the Athletic Department, on how to keep getting back to the NCAAT, on how to actually win something when you get there, on how to get more out of a smaller allotment of scholarships and department funds, on how to remain nationally relevant in a declining conference versus P5/4 conferences and teams with up to 5x more resources. And, Peace be with you.
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Post by fetchin on Aug 26, 2024 22:31:22 GMT -5
"Easier to get better than to maintain" - Robyn hasn't even maintained THAT'S THE POINT!!! The program is going downhill and and she can't even get any meaningful transfers in the off-season. A 13 player roster? Someone's not doing their job! "Dave Shoji was getting ousted in the second round towards the end of his career." & "His final 7 seasons were 5 second round drop outs" - His team were nationally ranked even in the twilight of his career and in Dave's last 8 years Dave's teams went to the Final Four (2009), made the Regional Semifinal (2011), made the Regional Final (2015) and got bounced in the 2nd round 5 times. In Robyn's last 7 years we've been ranked once and GOT BOUNCED IN THE 1ST ROUND 4 OF THE 6 TIMES SHE MADE IT TO THE TOURNAMENT! And you call that "maintaining"? Get a grip... 3/6 numb nut 2017-2018 first round 2019 suite 16 2021 second round 2022 First 2023 second The game has also changed numb nut USC, ucla, etc are not what they used to be either.. I count 2/6 first round losses is math hard? JK It doesn’t pertain to Hawaii but it is remarkable how much better west schools are in women’s basketball now than in volleyball, my bruins for example. I suspect the ncaa womens volleyball committee and avca and their favoritism for the sec and penn state and treating west schools like crap for three decades is a big reason though.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Aug 26, 2024 23:08:29 GMT -5
3/6 numb nut 2017-2018 first round 2019 suite 16 2021 second round 2022 First 2023 second The game has also changed numb nut USC, ucla, etc are not what they used to be either.. I count 2/6 first round losses is math hard? JK It doesn’t pertain to Hawaii but it is remarkable how much better west schools are in women’s basketball now than in volleyball, my bruins for example. I suspect the ncaa womens volleyball committee and avca and their favoritism for the sec and penn state and treating west schools like crap for three decades is a big reason though. 2017 and 2018 are two years. Plus 2022.
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