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Post by mervinswerved on Dec 17, 2023 12:33:41 GMT -5
You’re conveniently mixing up data points again - what event did she win? Was is the 200? It’s hard to give any credence to your position if you can’t be honest with your data. tell me where I was dishonest. youre incorrectly interpreting how simmers are ranked. I grew up around the sport my entire life so I dont think to use precise language when talking about it so thats my mistake. I haven't posted one dishonest thing about what she's ranked. you can find the exact info I posted on ncaa websites she won the 500 and placed 4th in the 200. Did not qualify for ncaas in either of those events the year prior. its maybe the greatest single season improvement NCAA swimming has ever seen What's your point?
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Post by n00b on Dec 17, 2023 12:35:57 GMT -5
its a ranking for the end of the year. they take your best time of the entire season and each event is ranked. let me ask, do you think its a lucky coincidence she couldn't even qualify for the ncaa championship meet as a male but won the whole damn thing after transitioning? I don't You’re conveniently mixing up data points again - what event did she win? Was is the 200? It’s hard to give any credence to your position if you can’t be honest with your data. Is your argument that Lia Thomas doesn’t fall into a different athletic tier now, in women’s athletics, as she did when she competed in the men’s division? Otherwise, why get bogged down in the details?
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Post by stanfordvb on Dec 17, 2023 12:36:03 GMT -5
tell me where I was dishonest. youre incorrectly interpreting how simmers are ranked. I grew up around the sport my entire life so I dont think to use precise language when talking about it so thats my mistake. I haven't posted one dishonest thing about what she's ranked. you can find the exact info I posted on ncaa websites she won the 500 and placed 4th in the 200. Did not qualify for ncaas in either of those events the year prior. its maybe the greatest single season improvement NCAA swimming has ever seen What's your point? That there is more to the issue than someone either being accepting or being transphobic. the narrative on here seems to be either you fully agree that there is no issue or you're just transphobic. I just dont agree with that
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 12:39:31 GMT -5
You’re conveniently mixing up data points again - what event did she win? Was is the 200? It’s hard to give any credence to your position if you can’t be honest with your data. tell me where I was dishonest. youre incorrectly interpreting how simmers are ranked. I grew up around the sport my entire life so I dont think to use precise language when talking about it so thats my mistake. I haven't posted one dishonest thing about what she's ranked. you can find the exact info I posted on ncaa websites she won the 500 and placed 4th in the 200. Did not qualify for ncaas in either of those events the year prior. its maybe the greatest single season improvement NCAA swimming has ever seen The prior year was 2020-2021, right? She didn’t swim that year, did she? More dishonesty?
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Post by mervinswerved on Dec 17, 2023 12:42:19 GMT -5
That there is more to the issue than someone either being accepting or being transphobic. the narrative on here seems to be either you fully agree that there is no issue or you're just transphobic. I just dont agree with that Like what? She was a far more successful swimmer after transitioning than before. What about it? Do you think she transitioned so she could win swim races? Do you think this kid in California started transitioning in grade school to earn a volleyball scholarship?
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 12:42:52 GMT -5
You’re conveniently mixing up data points again - what event did she win? Was is the 200? It’s hard to give any credence to your position if you can’t be honest with your data. Is your argument that Lia Thomas doesn’t fall into a different athletic tier now, in women’s athletics, as she did when she competed in the men’s division? Otherwise, why get bogged down in the details? What does the tier matter? She won 1 NCAA race as a woman and set no records. And people are acting like she destroyed women’s swimming. Lol.
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Post by n00b on Dec 17, 2023 12:47:58 GMT -5
Is your argument that Lia Thomas doesn’t fall into a different athletic tier now, in women’s athletics, as she did when she competed in the men’s division? Otherwise, why get bogged down in the details? What does the tier matter? She won 1 NCAA race as a woman and set no records. And people are acting like she destroyed women’s swimming. Lol. Because “do transgender athletes have an inherent physical advantage in women’s sports” is a relevant question in this discussion. Whether the sport of swimming was destroyed or not. A national championship wasn’t won by somebody who otherwise would have. That’s not nothing.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Dec 17, 2023 12:52:50 GMT -5
So which college records does she hold? Which event? (hint: the answer is zero) I dont think she holds any records you're correct ab that how many olympic gold medalists did she beat after being ranked in the 500s as a male tho? hint : the answer is not zero IIRC, Thomas did not beat an Olympic gold medalist, but rather a former silver medalist in one of the IM events who was swimming outside her specialty at the NCAA’s. Thomas won the 500, finished 5th in the 200 and dead last in the 100 finals. She set no records, and her PB in her signature event is miles behind the record set by, I think, Lednecky. Thomas would get boat raced at the Olympic trials. At the NCAA’s, Thomas was good, not great, and certainly not dominant. When it comes to one of the pillars of the argument against trans athletes - inherent biological advantages - pointing at Thomas’s performance is not as compelling as many seem to think.
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Post by florfresh on Dec 17, 2023 12:52:55 GMT -5
yes. she finished 554th in the 200 freestyle in 2019 when she competed as a male placed 65th in the 500 freestyle So, you tried to use a singular data point as a “ranking” and then provide another data point that significantly disagrees with your claim that she was ranked in the 500s. Care to review any more data? Back to the UW situation, similar to this attempt to manipulate/misrepresent information, the article Redduxx article also gives information without adequate detail to sensationalize the case and lie to the public. While Tate won an MVP in 17s at JNC, it was in the third division, not in Open, significantly overstating her “dominance”.
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Post by florfresh on Dec 17, 2023 12:53:54 GMT -5
So, you tried to use a singular data point as a “ranking” and then provide another data point that significantly disagrees with your claim that she was ranked in the 500s. Care to review any more data? Back to the UW situation, similar to this attempt to manipulate/misrepresent information, the article Redduxx article also gives information without adequate detail to sensationalize the case and lie to the public. While Tate won an MVP in 17s at JNC, it was in the third division, not in Open, significantly overstating her “dominance”. I believe she was 17 MVP in USA after being 18 MVP also in USA - not third tier and not limited to her age group
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Post by tomclen on Dec 17, 2023 12:57:45 GMT -5
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Post by thevolleybaker on Dec 17, 2023 12:59:57 GMT -5
What does the tier matter? She won 1 NCAA race as a woman and set no records. And people are acting like she destroyed women’s swimming. Lol. Because “do transgender athletes have an inherent physical advantage in women’s sports” is a relevant question in this discussion. Whether the sport of swimming was destroyed or not. A national championship wasn’t won by somebody who otherwise would have. That’s not nothing. People have inherent physical advantages in sports all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with their gender. That’s just sports. Transgender people face regular attacks, hatred, and discrimination. No one would put themselves through that just to get a competitive advantage in sports.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 13:01:19 GMT -5
So, you tried to use a singular data point as a “ranking” and then provide another data point that significantly disagrees with your claim that she was ranked in the 500s. Care to review any more data? Back to the UW situation, similar to this attempt to manipulate/misrepresent information, the article Redduxx article also gives information without adequate detail to sensationalize the case and lie to the public. While Tate won an MVP in 17s at JNC, it was in the third division, not in Open, significantly overstating her “dominance”. its varies by event. every ranking is different. swimmers are not ranked as a whole, there is a separate ranking for every event. she improved exactly 550 places in the 200 freestyle from one year to the next. the only thing different about those years was the gender she was competing against Actually, there’s something else important that you probably aren’t considering (she got 5th the the 200, not 4th, so more data errors). In 2019, she was competing in the Men’s division but was already on HRT (since May 2019). Her time in the 500 dropped 18 seconds from 2018 to 2019 and she went from 1st to last on the team. Her 2019 results don’t reflect what her performance would have been as a sophomore male not on HRT.
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Post by n00b on Dec 17, 2023 13:01:26 GMT -5
People have inherent physical advantages in sports all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with their gender. That’s just sports. Are you generally for separating men’s and women’s sports? And based on the above, why?
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Post by thevolleybaker on Dec 17, 2023 13:04:35 GMT -5
People have inherent physical advantages in sports all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with their gender. That’s just sports. Are you generally for separating men’s and women’s sports? And based on the above, why? I’m against excluding trans athletes.
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