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Post by n00b on Dec 17, 2023 13:05:54 GMT -5
Are you generally for separating men’s and women’s sports? And based on the above, why? I’m against excluding trans athletes. Nice dodge. I appreciate that you want to be nice. I’ll ask again, are you for separating men’s and women’s sports? And why?
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 13:10:00 GMT -5
I believe she was 17 MVP in USA after being 18 MVP also in USA - not third tier and not limited to her age group Open... National… USA - 17s On the 18s it was American, so 5th division.
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Post by thevolleybaker on Dec 17, 2023 13:11:49 GMT -5
I’m against excluding trans athletes. Nice dodge. I appreciate that you want to be nice. I’ll ask again, are you for separating men’s and women’s sports? And why? I’m not dodging I guess just don’t find it relevant. No one is talking about getting rid of men’s and women’s sports. They’re talking about including trans men and women in sports. I feel like you’re attempting to insinuate that including trans women is including men but that’s not the case. They’re women. They’re on HRT as well which changes a lot in the body. And even if they weren’t, ok, maybe they have a small advantage. So what? A 6’9 cis girl has an inherent biological competitive advantage but no one would ever flip about them getting a scholarship. It’s just part of sports.
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Post by bigredhimbo on Dec 17, 2023 13:13:40 GMT -5
I’m against excluding trans athletes. Nice dodge. I appreciate that you want to be nice. I’ll ask again, are you for separating men’s and women’s sports? And why? being nice, could you try it sometime please
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Post by n00b on Dec 17, 2023 13:18:27 GMT -5
Nice dodge. I appreciate that you want to be nice. I’ll ask again, are you for separating men’s and women’s sports? And why? I’m not dodging I guess just don’t find it relevant. No one is talking about getting rid of men’s and women’s sports. They’re talking about including trans men and women in sports. I feel like you’re attempting to insinuate that including trans women is including men but that’s not the case. They’re women. They’re on HRT as well which changes a lot in the body. And even if they weren’t, ok, maybe they have a small advantage. So what? A 6’9 cis girl has an inherent biological competitive advantage but no one would ever flip about them getting a scholarship. It’s just part of sports. The entire reason to separate men’s and women’s sports is that the bell curve of strength/speed/size/etc is different between men and women. If you don’t think that matters, then separating the two sexes is discriminatory. I DO think that matters. So the division athletes compete in should be based on the same principle that is the whole reason for separating the sexes to begin with.
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Post by GatorsChomp on Dec 17, 2023 13:19:40 GMT -5
^ There's rumour going around on twitter that UW pulled the schollie It's a rumor on Twitter? It must be true! no spilled thats why i was wondering if it was confirmed or not
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 13:37:10 GMT -5
It's a rumor on Twitter? It must be true! no spilled thats why i was wondering if it was confirmed or not Tag UW and ask them to reply.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 13:39:33 GMT -5
I’m not dodging I guess just don’t find it relevant. No one is talking about getting rid of men’s and women’s sports. They’re talking about including trans men and women in sports. I feel like you’re attempting to insinuate that including trans women is including men but that’s not the case. They’re women. They’re on HRT as well which changes a lot in the body. And even if they weren’t, ok, maybe they have a small advantage. So what? A 6’9 cis girl has an inherent biological competitive advantage but no one would ever flip about them getting a scholarship. It’s just part of sports. The entire reason to separate men’s and women’s sports is that the bell curve of strength/speed/size/etc is different between men and women. If you don’t think that matters, then separating the two sexes is discriminatory. I DO think that matters. So the division athletes compete in should be based on the same principle that is the whole reason for separating the sexes to begin with. And what do you know about the science of gender transition, HRT, and the impact on athletic performance?
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Post by n00b on Dec 17, 2023 13:43:33 GMT -5
The entire reason to separate men’s and women’s sports is that the bell curve of strength/speed/size/etc is different between men and women. If you don’t think that matters, then separating the two sexes is discriminatory. I DO think that matters. So the division athletes compete in should be based on the same principle that is the whole reason for separating the sexes to begin with. And what do you know about the science of gender transition, HRT, and the impact on athletic performance? It affects it. And there are things it doesn’t affect. For example, Lia Thomas didn’t get shorter.
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Post by n00b on Dec 17, 2023 13:46:07 GMT -5
no spilled thats why i was wondering if it was confirmed or not Tag UW and ask them to reply. Even if they wanted to, from a compliance standpoint they cannot disclose if they’ve offered a high school junior a scholarship.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Dec 17, 2023 13:50:45 GMT -5
And what do you know about the science of gender transition, HRT, and the impact on athletic performance? It affects it. And there are things it doesn’t affect. For example, Lia Thomas didn’t get shorter. True. But Thomas transitioned in college, correct? The 16-year-old who is the subject of this thread seems to have transitioned in childhood. If this is the case, she never experienced “male puberty” and the associated growth spurt. At 5-11, if anything, she is undersized for a D1 OH.
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Post by thevolleybaker on Dec 17, 2023 13:50:53 GMT -5
I’m not dodging I guess just don’t find it relevant. No one is talking about getting rid of men’s and women’s sports. They’re talking about including trans men and women in sports. I feel like you’re attempting to insinuate that including trans women is including men but that’s not the case. They’re women. They’re on HRT as well which changes a lot in the body. And even if they weren’t, ok, maybe they have a small advantage. So what? A 6’9 cis girl has an inherent biological competitive advantage but no one would ever flip about them getting a scholarship. It’s just part of sports. The entire reason to separate men’s and women’s sports is that the bell curve of strength/speed/size/etc is different between men and women. If you don’t think that matters, then separating the two sexes is discriminatory. I DO think that matters. So the division athletes compete in should be based on the same principle that is the whole reason for separating the sexes to begin with. But you’re doing what I said, acting like trans women competing in women’s sports is men competing in women’s sports therefore destroying that separation. It’s not. They’re women. They’re on HRT and/or taking estrogen. Whatever advantage they MIGHT have is either neutralized by that or no more and probably much less of a factor than other physical advantages other athletes have. Take Michael Phelps. He has MAJOR inherent physical advantages for his sport. No one called to ban him because it was unfair even though he absolutely dominated. Also, just because you MIGHT have a physical advantage does not automatically mean you will be an elite athlete or win a championship. Sometimes it matches up and sometimes it doesn’t, as is the situation for any athlete. Accepting trans athletes isn’t destroying women’s or men’s sports and no one is advocating to an end of men’s and women’s sports. They just want everyone to be included.
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Dec 17, 2023 14:12:10 GMT -5
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 17, 2023 14:14:54 GMT -5
And what do you know about the science of gender transition, HRT, and the impact on athletic performance? It affects it. And there are things it doesn’t affect. For example, Lia Thomas didn’t get shorter. Actually, she reports losing an inch in height. My perspective is that Lia followed all NCAA rules for medical transition. But, I think most posters agree that the two cases are apples to oranges. For the purpose of the volleyball discussion - much brouhaha on here is about the advantages conferred by going through male puberty. The young volleyball athlete didn’t, per her reported transition timeframe we are hearing about in the (non-right wing) media. So, what is the competitive advantage then? While I am not in favor of creating distinctions based on pre- or post-puberty transition, in this case if the pre-puberty transition negates the advantages of male puberty, what logic prevails that the athlete shouldn’t compete as a D1 woman?
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trojansc
Legend
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Posts: 30,201
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Post by trojansc on Dec 17, 2023 14:17:27 GMT -5
Accepting trans athletes isn’t destroying women’s or men’s sports and no one is advocating to an end of men’s and women’s sports. They just want everyone to be included. If everyone is included - does this mean trans women who have not transitioned would be eligible to compete in women's sports?
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