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Post by touchline on Dec 18, 2023 18:50:40 GMT -5
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Post by uofaGRAD on Dec 18, 2023 18:58:50 GMT -5
feel like Tate did everything right when it comes to transition while wanting to play sports… started early to block male puberty and develop as the girl she is. I’m just not sure we should be punishing trans athletes that clearly did it “the right way”*
*there is no “right way” to transition. I’m just saying in relation to being fair within sports, that’s the way to do it.
while I truly didn’t have a problem with Lia Thomas, I can see why some did. but this is so far from apples to apples. Lia went through puberty as a male, and then later transitioned. as many have noted, her times were good as a male her freshman year but then after hormones started is when she got obviously worse, so there’s evidence it works even after male puberty. but that’s STILL not the case with Tate! she did NOT go through puberty as a male from everything we can see. I just want to know what biological advantage she has, since that’s the concern. she is quite literally just a slightly undersized outside lmao. she is so clearly not dangerous to anyone on the court BECAUSE of when she transitioned. I would guarantee her testosterone levels were lower than some top D1 players right now when she was going through puberty, if this was the case
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Post by staticb on Dec 18, 2023 19:02:28 GMT -5
Unless the parents come up with more information then no one knows for sure. UWashington isn't allowed to comment on prospective athletes before they sign NIL deals. On the surface, she doesn't seem to fit the profile of an early volleyball scholarship commit to a top P5 school.
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Post by luckydawg on Dec 18, 2023 19:09:39 GMT -5
Unless the parents come up with more information then no one knows for sure. UWashington isn't allowed to comment on prospective athletes before they sign NIL deals. On the surface, she doesn't seem to fit the profile of an early volleyball scholarship commit to a top P5 school. Not NIL (Name, Image, Likeness), but NLI (National Letter of Intent).
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 18, 2023 19:28:48 GMT -5
Physically? They are. It's why the net is 8 inches lower. So men are just automatically stronger than women? I know quite a few women who could out lift, out run, and out jump me.
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Post by molokaiboi on Dec 18, 2023 19:43:33 GMT -5
Transgender women in women’s volleyball? Ridiculous! Lol I’m part of the LGBT+iefbjeosjhehsidj community but this is just getting out of hand.
There should be a trans league. If you’re transitioning into a woman.. go protest for a trans-woman league. Nothing wrong with that but leave the real women alone who didn’t have to transition.
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Post by donut on Dec 18, 2023 19:58:50 GMT -5
Transgender women in women’s volleyball? Ridiculous! Lol I’m part of the LGBT+iefbjeosjhehsidj community but this is just getting out of hand. There should be a trans league. If you’re transitioning into a woman.. go protest for a trans-woman league. Nothing wrong with that but leave the real women alone who didn’t have to transition. Well you're an awful member of the community. "Real women?" Get lost.
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Post by joetrinsey on Dec 18, 2023 20:07:00 GMT -5
feel like Tate did everything right when it comes to transition while wanting to play sports… started early to block male puberty and develop as the girl she is. If sports are divided by gender (a purely social construct) and not by anything biological, then why should it matter when or how she transitioned? If she’s a girl and has always been a girl, then what difference does it make whether she has taken any hormones or not? If sports are divided on gender, then it would follow that hormone therapy shouldn’t be a condition of athletic competition. Otherwise, aren’t you saying that some women have acceptable biology to play women’s sports but others don’t?
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Post by uofaGRAD on Dec 18, 2023 20:11:05 GMT -5
feel like Tate did everything right when it comes to transition while wanting to play sports… started early to block male puberty and develop as the girl she is. If sports are divided by gender (a purely social construct) and not by anything biological, then why should it matter when or how she transitioned? If she’s a girl and has always been a girl, then what difference does it make whether she has taken any hormones or not? If sports are divided on gender, then it would follow that hormone therapy shouldn’t be a condition of athletic competition. Otherwise, aren’t you saying that some women have acceptable biology to play women’s sports but others don’t? I didn’t say sports weren’t separated based on biology. I said because of when she transitioned she doesn’t have a biological advantage over other women, so why does anyone care?
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Post by joetrinsey on Dec 18, 2023 20:24:53 GMT -5
If sports are divided by gender (a purely social construct) and not by anything biological, then why should it matter when or how she transitioned? If she’s a girl and has always been a girl, then what difference does it make whether she has taken any hormones or not? If sports are divided on gender, then it would follow that hormone therapy shouldn’t be a condition of athletic competition. Otherwise, aren’t you saying that some women have acceptable biology to play women’s sports but others don’t? I didn’t say sports weren’t separated based on biology. I said because of when she transitioned she doesn’t have a biological advantage over other women, so why does anyone care? Ok sorry I misunderstood your argument. So you’re not saying sports should be separated by gender but instead basically for some sort of biological criteria?
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Post by biodogtexas on Dec 18, 2023 20:38:23 GMT -5
feel like Tate did everything right when it comes to transition while wanting to play sports… started early to block male puberty and develop as the girl she is. I’m just not sure we should be punishing trans athletes that clearly did it “the right way”* *there is no “right way” to transition. I’m just saying in relation to being fair within sports, that’s the way to do it. while I truly didn’t have a problem with Lia Thomas, I can see why some did. but this is so far from apples to apples. Lia went through puberty as a male, and then later transitioned. as many have noted, her times were good as a male her freshman year but then after hormones started is when she got obviously worse, so there’s evidence it works even after male puberty. but that’s STILL not the case with Tate! she did NOT go through puberty as a male from everything we can see. I just want to know what biological advantage she has, since that’s the concern. she is quite literally just a slightly undersized outside lmao. she is so clearly not dangerous to anyone on the court BECAUSE of when she transitioned. I would guarantee her testosterone levels were lower than some top D1 players right now when she was going through puberty, if this was the case I think one of the issues people run into is when you characterize it as punishment. What's the punishment? As a biological male, she can compete with biological males all she wants, she just can't compete with biological females. That's not a punishment, it's just how things work.
The biological differences are why we have separate divisions in the first place. They are true on a macro-level but not always on a micro-level. But that's how all rules work in sport. It doesn't matter the circumstances or the emotion of the play. If the rule says don't go out of bounds, your shoelace touches and you're out. If the rule says don't touch the net, your jersey touches and that counts as a touch. It doesn't matter if its championship point and you just leaned back to avoid colliding with your teammate or if it's a hail mary to win the super bowl. It doesn't matter if you did everything right or if it wasn't your fault. It doesn't matter if it was an accident or if it was on purpose. The rules are rigidly enforced to the letter of the law down to the nearest millimeter we can see with available technology.
Accordingly, if only biological females are allowed to compete in women's sports, then only biological females are allowed to compete. End of story.
That being said, this isn't about participation anymore. This isn't a rural middle school volleyball where there's only one team and no other options. There is no loss of opportunity here.
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Post by staticb on Dec 18, 2023 20:43:30 GMT -5
Accordingly, if only biological females are allowed to compete in women's sports, then only biological females are allowed to compete. End of story.
That being said, this isn't about participation anymore. This isn't a rural middle school volleyball where there's only one team and no other options. There is no loss of opportunity here.
Except the rules say she can compete. The NCAA has allowed trans athletes to compete as long as they meet certain requirements, and she appears to have met them. It's people intentionally trying to harass Washington and NCAA (and trans) athletes into submission by trying to force back into hiding when the rules say they can compete.
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Post by biodogtexas on Dec 18, 2023 20:50:14 GMT -5
Accordingly, if only biological females are allowed to compete in women's sports, then only biological females are allowed to compete. End of story.
That being said, this isn't about participation anymore. This isn't a rural middle school volleyball where there's only one team and no other options. There is no loss of opportunity here.
Except the rules say she can compete. The NCAA has allowed trans athletes to compete as long as they meet certain requirements, and she appears to have met them. It's people intentionally trying to harass Washington and NCAA (and trans) athletes into submission by trying to force back into hiding when the rules say they can compete. Yes. That's why she could have received an offer in the first place. I'm explaining one aspect of the resistance to the offer. That's why I prefaced that statement with if. If you're one of the people that believe that women's sports should be limited to just biological females, then there are no exceptions. It doesn't matter if she transitioned "the right way". The rule is the rule and there are no exceptions. That's why a lot of will be against this no matter the specific circumstances.
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 18, 2023 20:53:17 GMT -5
feel like Tate did everything right when it comes to transition while wanting to play sports… started early to block male puberty and develop as the girl she is. I’m just not sure we should be punishing trans athletes that clearly did it “the right way”* *there is no “right way” to transition. I’m just saying in relation to being fair within sports, that’s the way to do it. while I truly didn’t have a problem with Lia Thomas, I can see why some did. but this is so far from apples to apples. Lia went through puberty as a male, and then later transitioned. as many have noted, her times were good as a male her freshman year but then after hormones started is when she got obviously worse, so there’s evidence it works even after male puberty. but that’s STILL not the case with Tate! she did NOT go through puberty as a male from everything we can see. I just want to know what biological advantage she has, since that’s the concern. she is quite literally just a slightly undersized outside lmao. she is so clearly not dangerous to anyone on the court BECAUSE of when she transitioned. I would guarantee her testosterone levels were lower than some top D1 players right now when she was going through puberty, if this was the case I think one of the issues people run into is when you characterize it as punishment. What's the punishment? As a biological male, she can compete with biological males all she wants, she just can't compete with biological females. That's not a punishment, it's just how things work.
The biological differences are why we have separate divisions in the first place. They are true on a macro-level but not always on a micro-level. But that's how all rules work in sport. It doesn't matter the circumstances or the emotion of the play. If the rule says don't go out of bounds, your shoelace touches and you're out. If the rule says don't touch the net, your jersey touches and that counts as a touch. It doesn't matter if its championship point and you just leaned back to avoid colliding with your teammate or if it's a hail mary to win the super bowl. It doesn't matter if you did everything right or if it wasn't your fault. It doesn't matter if it was an accident or if it was on purpose. The rules are rigidly enforced to the letter of the law down to the nearest millimeter we can see with available technology.
Accordingly, if only biological females are allowed to compete in women's sports, then only biological females are allowed to compete. End of story.
That being said, this isn't about participation anymore. This isn't a rural middle school volleyball where there's only one team and no other options. There is no loss of opportunity here.
Here you go since you are such a rule enforcer: www.ncaa.org/sports/2022/1/27/transgender-participation-policy.aspx
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Post by n00b on Dec 18, 2023 21:01:55 GMT -5
Physically? They are. It's why the net is 8 inches lower. So men are just automatically stronger than women? I know quite a few women who could out lift, out run, and out jump me. Good lord. I literally took the time TWICE in this thread, at times when you were actively engaged in the conversation, to spell out that the bell curve of strength/height/etc is significantly different between men and women. I didn't fully type that out a third time, and your gotcha is that some women are stronger than some men?
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