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Post by fromonhigh on Dec 21, 2023 13:13:42 GMT -5
It is the policy and has been for at least a decade. It's not on me if you're ignorant of the rules. I literally just acknowledged that the NCAA has allowed some trans-male athletes to compete in womens sports. Where we disagree is whether or not that represents policy. That is a semantic debate that we will have to accept disagreement on. You are asserting that allowing trans-athletes establishes policy. I am arguing that it represents a practice that goes against policy. I am not disputing that trans-males have been allowed to compete. Length does not make an argument valid nor correct. I disagree that there are more than two sexes and believe that biology dies determine sex. You believe something else. Sexuality is what your argument is truly about. |
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Post by TayRey on Dec 21, 2023 13:24:25 GMT -5
Reading the comments on volleytalk and groups like this as a fellow trans athlete are beyond devastating. I consider myself a grown a** woman (who has a fantastic therapist) but this constant rhetoric and commentary on trans people eats away at you. People speak so freely with hate and disdain but then say it is not personal but you cannot attack a person’s equality, character, or identity without it being personal. It’s not only personal to the specific person but to trans people at large, especially trans women.
When your identity and validity as a person is constantly attacked and ridiculed you turn into a shell of a person.
And I don’t want to hear any BS about “it’s about fairness” or “you shouldn’t let what others say or think affect you”. There are ALREADY rules in governing bodies all the way up to the IOC for how trans athletes can compete and even so- there are SO FEW of us trans athletes. And even the few that do compete there is NO EVIDENCE of some massive influx of trans athletes.
We do not transition for sports. We transition TO STAY ALIVE. If you think this will be an avenue to men to win, then your issue is with predatory men, NOT TRANS WOMEN.
Do yall really think that in this transphobic, misogynistic, sexist, patriarchy that faking being a woman is a legit way MEN are wanting fame?
This journey is TREACHEROUS every single moment that trans people are alive. We have NO safe places. All we want to do is play the sport that we love. To escape reality and just exist on the court. No one is transitioning just to win sports, we face discrimination in every aspect of our life. We have less access to education, safety, job security, access to healthcare, and struggle to even have relationships and friendships. All bc of this hateful rhetoric and because people feel the need to demean people and other people. Imagine living in a world where every where you look you are being told you will never amount to anything, never have a career, never have happiness, never have love, never have equality, where society denies your validity. Why would anyone CHOOSE that?
And unless you are trans you have NO idea what it is like.
Not to mention transphobia is immensely rooted in racism as well. You see athletes like Serena Williams who constantly were accused of “being a man.” Intersex athletes like Castor Semenya who were disqualified for a NATURAL OCCURRING difference. Meanwhile athletes like Michael Phelps who ALSO have naturally occurring advantages (his body does not produce the normal amount of lactic acid) are lauded.
People always rag on “more bone density, more lung capacity, taller height” but don’t even acknowledge the biodiversity within each assigned sex at birth. There are a MULTITUDE of cis women who are stronger, taller, faster etc than me. Does this mean women who are taller than others should not be able to compete?
Additionally, the immense muscle mass that trans women lose after hormone replacement therapy (HRT) greatly affects athletic ability. I am a shell of an athlete of what I used to be. And guess what? All that extra “bone density, height and weight” combined with LESS MUSCLE = more stress being put on the body.
Lastly, this issue also affects cis women. There are news articles about cis women who are harassed for people assuming they are trans, with some even being physically attacked or killed. How is this protecting women? How is this furthering our “safety”? How do you explain to your child that because they are so good, or because they look a certain way, that people want to do tests on them or even PHYSICALLY EXAMINE THEM to prove they belong?
Finally, even if you disagree with their belonging in sports- the least you can do is gender them correctly. You may not think they should compete but you don’t have to dehumanize them and attack their identity at the same time.
I hope that this athlete is being looked after and loved on. I hope that she knows that there is nothing wrong with her. I hope she knows she deserves love, happiness, equality, and equity. I hope she knows she has community and she belongs. We’ve lost too many people to the cruelty of the world. Please think about that whenever you speak.
✌🏽
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 21, 2023 13:46:15 GMT -5
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Post by HappyVolley on Dec 21, 2023 13:47:19 GMT -5
For what? Disagreeing with you? Read your post and tell me there's no politics in your comments. Every post in this thread is political. How dense are you? |
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Post by badgerbreath on Dec 21, 2023 13:49:54 GMT -5
I literally just acknowledged that the NCAA has allowed some trans-male athletes to compete in womens sports. Where we disagree is whether or not that represents policy. That is a semantic debate that we will have to accept disagreement on. You are asserting that allowing trans-athletes establishes policy. I am arguing that it represents a practice that goes against policy. I am not disputing that trans-males have been allowed to compete. I disagree that there are more than two sexes and believe that biology dies determine sex. You believe something else. This is not a question of belief. It's just factually wrong. There is no biological definition of sex in which it is true. You might as well say that the rainbow has only two wavelengths. What you mean to say is that there are only two sexes you will allow to exist. Everyone who does not fit those two categories can be disposed of. That's a question of values. I'm against disposing of anyone. That is a central value of mine, and most modern civilized societies. |
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 21, 2023 14:17:41 GMT -5
Most of the people who are backing up this agenda are from the LGBT+ community 🙄. The entitlement is real. Not all of us are agree with it though. They think that just because there’s SOME “science” behind it (like donut says) …. He think he’s correct … and if parents feel uncomfortable about their daughters playing with a transgender they are bad parents… (like topspin mention).. forget them.. There’s a bigger picture here. All this is being pushed intentionally to divide people. It’s by design. People either don’t read or understand history. This has all been done before over and over. It’s always about power and control. You can’t control a big society without dividing them first. Y’all are saying we should just create a new league for trans athletes… is that not dividing people?? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 14:19:55 GMT -5
There’s a bigger picture here. All this is being pushed intentionally to divide people. It’s by design. People either don’t read or understand history. This has all been done before over and over. It’s always about power and control. You can’t control a big society without dividing them first. Y’all are saying we should just create a new league for trans athletes… is that not dividing people?? We are already diviiding people separating them into more and more boxes with all the genders and pronouns. That’s separating people into more and more boxes. Bring people together by dividing them. That’s some orwelling thinking. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Dec 21, 2023 14:24:29 GMT -5
Reading the comments on volleytalk and groups like this as a fellow trans athlete are beyond devastating. Thanks for this. I'm sorry the nature of this discussion has forced you to take part. But it's valuable. Often trans people aren't even in these debates because there aren't many of them and those that exist feel threatened. It's easy for the discussion to get lost in abstraction, and to become untethered to the real human issues at stake. |
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 21, 2023 14:27:09 GMT -5
Y’all are saying we should just create a new league for trans athletes… is that not dividing people?? We are already diviiding people separating them into more and more boxes with all the genders and pronouns. That’s separating people into more and more boxes. Ignore the point I made, very on brand. The difference between me and you Boofus, is that I understand the dangers that come from wanting everyone to be the same. Another skill you seem to lack, is the ability to connect with others who ARE different than you. It’s extremely simple-minded to think that people can’t embrace the differences of their identities amongst one another. Expecting everyone to fit in the same few boxes, is a very dangerous path you’re going down there. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 14:29:35 GMT -5
We are already diviiding people separating them into more and more boxes with all the genders and pronouns. That’s separating people into more and more boxes. Ignore the point I made, very on brand. The difference between me and you Boofus, is that I understand the dangers that come from wanting everyone to be the same. Another skill you seem to lack, is the ability to connect with others who ARE different than you. It’s extremely simple-minded to think that people can’t embrace the differences of their identities amongst one another. Expecting everyone to fit in the same few boxes, is a very dangerous path you’re going down there. No that’s the exact path the liberals are going down. I have argued against attacking people who think different. Most conservatives have. That’s a liberal thing. My way of thinking or none. This has never been about race or sex ect. It’s always been about ideology. You think what you want. My view is their is no such thing as transgender. That implies you can just change your sex at will and I think thats ridiculous |
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 21, 2023 14:35:24 GMT -5
“Was presented like that what majority wanted when that was never true” - just like the inaccurate way you represented Lia Thomas’s swimming career a few posts ago, despite about 10 posts on this thread showing that that ranking as a male isn’t wholly true. She was ranked in the top 10!!! in one event even. Plenty of articles with exact same info . They’re plenty of articles from many different sources that have these exact same rankings. It’s cherry picking the most extreme data point and ignoring the whole picture - so it’s disingenuous reporting. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 14:36:34 GMT -5
It’s cherry picking the most extreme data point and ignoring the whole picture - so it’s disingenuous reporting. It think it’s you cherry picking. Everyone wants to pick things out that support their narrative |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 14:37:21 GMT -5
Reading the comments on volleytalk and groups like this as a fellow trans athlete are beyond devastating. I consider myself a grown a** woman (who has a fantastic therapist) but this constant rhetoric and commentary on trans people eats away at you. People speak so freely with hate and disdain but then say it is not personal but you cannot attack a person’s equality, character, or identity without it being personal. It’s not only personal to the specific person but to trans people at large, especially trans women. When your identity and validity as a person is constantly attacked and ridiculed you turn into a shell of a person. And I don’t want to hear any BS about “it’s about fairness” or “you shouldn’t let what others say or think affect you”. There are ALREADY rules in governing bodies all the way up to the IOC for how trans athletes can compete and even so- there are SO FEW of us trans athletes. And even the few that do compete there is NO EVIDENCE of some massive influx of trans athletes. We do not transition for sports. We transition TO STAY ALIVE. If you think this will be an avenue to men to win, then your issue is with predatory men, NOT TRANS WOMEN. Do yall really think that in this transphobic, misogynistic, sexist, patriarchy that faking being a woman is a legit way MEN are wanting fame? This journey is TREACHEROUS every single moment that trans people are alive. We have NO safe places. All we want to do is play the sport that we love. To escape reality and just exist on the court. No one is transitioning just to win sports, we face discrimination in every aspect of our life. We have less access to education, safety, job security, access to healthcare, and struggle to even have relationships and friendships. All bc of this hateful rhetoric and because people feel the need to demean people and other people. Imagine living in a world where every where you look you are being told you will never amount to anything, never have a career, never have happiness, never have love, never have equality, where society denies your validity. Why would anyone CHOOSE that? And unless you are trans you have NO idea what it is like. Not to mention transphobia is immensely rooted in racism as well. You see athletes like Serena Williams who constantly were accused of “being a man.” Intersex athletes like Castor Semenya who were disqualified for a NATURAL OCCURRING difference. Meanwhile athletes like Michael Phelps who ALSO have naturally occurring advantages (his body does not produce the normal amount of lactic acid) are lauded. People always rag on “more bone density, more lung capacity, taller height” but don’t even acknowledge the biodiversity within each assigned sex at birth. There are a MULTITUDE of cis women who are stronger, taller, faster etc than me. Does this mean women who are taller than others should not be able to compete? Additionally, the immense muscle mass that trans women lose after hormone replacement therapy (HRT) greatly affects athletic ability. I am a shell of an athlete of what I used to be. And guess what? All that extra “bone density, height and weight” combined with LESS MUSCLE = more stress being put on the body. Lastly, this issue also affects cis women. There are news articles about cis women who are harassed for people assuming they are trans, with some even being physically attacked or killed. How is this protecting women? How is this furthering our “safety”? How do you explain to your child that because they are so good, or because they look a certain way, that people want to do tests on them or even PHYSICALLY EXAMINE THEM to prove they belong? Finally, even if you disagree with their belonging in sports- the least you can do is gender them correctly. You may not think they should compete but you don’t have to dehumanize them and attack their identity at the same time. I hope that this athlete is being looked after and loved on. I hope that she knows that there is nothing wrong with her. I hope she knows she deserves love, happiness, equality, and equity. I hope she knows she has community and she belongs. We’ve lost too many people to the cruelty of the world. Please think about that whenever you speak. ✌🏽 I say BS on much of your argument. I am a CIS gender male and have been harassed on this forum having been called she, sis and that is after even having making it clear what were preferred references that I felt comfortable with. I was further assailed yet this same gaggle of harassers gravitate to coddle the special rights of LGBTQIA+ folks. |
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Post by houstonbear15 on Dec 21, 2023 14:43:38 GMT -5
Ignore the point I made, very on brand. The difference between me and you Boofus, is that I understand the dangers that come from wanting everyone to be the same. Another skill you seem to lack, is the ability to connect with others who ARE different than you. It’s extremely simple-minded to think that people can’t embrace the differences of their identities amongst one another. Expecting everyone to fit in the same few boxes, is a very dangerous path you’re going down there. No that’s the exact path the liberals are going down. I have argued against attacking people who think different. Most conservatives have. That’s a liberal thing. My way of thinking or none. This has never been about race or sex ect. It’s always been about ideology Again, you completely fail to make any type of relevant point that is congruent to the discussion. This isn’t about wanting everyone to think the same or be the same. You aren’t simply expressing your disdain for people who think different than you, but rather people who ARE different than you. Transphobic people aren’t just asking to be heard or understood as an argument, they are truly arguing the validity of an existence of an identity group. Does that ideology, combined with this idea that people should be divided into less boxes, not sound similar to some of the biggest atrocities our world has experienced? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 14:48:07 GMT -5
No that’s the exact path the liberals are going down. I have argued against attacking people who think different. Most conservatives have. That’s a liberal thing. My way of thinking or none. This has never been about race or sex ect. It’s always been about ideology Again, you completely fail to make any type of relevant point that is congruent to the discussion. This isn’t about wanting everyone to think the same or be the same. You aren’t simply expressing your disdain for people who think different than you, but rather people who ARE different than you. Transphobic people aren’t just asking to be heard or understood as an argument, they are truly arguing the validity of an existence of an identity group. Does that ideology, combined with this idea that people should be divided into less boxes, not sound similar to some of the biggest atrocities our world has experienced? Here’s the thing. As I’ve said before. My belief is there is no such thing as transgender. It’s a made up term. It implies you can change sex at will which is ludicrous. So I choose not to participate in that what I believe is insanity. That is my right. If you want to believe in it that’s your right. Differing thoughts that you say your for. I don’t have to believe in something to think people have the right to believe in whatever they want |
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