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Post by robtearle on Dec 16, 2023 13:12:59 GMT -5
We would have firepower, yes, but you need more than firepower to win a championship.
We're living through the aftermath of that; more balance please.
In that case I'd think you want either a libero or an established OH2 (all-around outside hitter) as a portal player, if anything. The "all the firepower" was meant to be a minor joke, but the reality is, Texas beat us in two areas: 1. They had enough firepower to overcome our block and floor defense. 2. They served us into the ground. Especially in a 5-1, there will be at least one rotation where Frank is back row and Charlie is front row and the reality of it is that in that case, whoever our OH2 is will be counted on to take out the trash in that rotation. We struggled in that rotation this year until TTA finally found her form. And championships are won and lost based on one weak rotation. If Orzol or Wrobel is OH2 next year, I will fear rotation 4 every time it comes up. At this point, we look at Landfair's OOS hitting percent?
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Post by buckyupbuttercup on Dec 16, 2023 13:22:54 GMT -5
After last year, and the addition of Booth, I was content to run it back with the returners. Was not excited at all about the talk/possibility of Podraza or overly enthused about what tta could add since I was more concerned about passing than adding another arm. Turned out that the concern of frank going 6 rotations wasn't the problem as she improved greatly, for the year, as a whole. Ultimately though, passing still did us in again.
Next year it's a 5-1 and i again think there are enough big arms with devyn, anna, booth and frank that the number one improvement target should be passing. To me orzol has always been awesome, but she isn't a libero(3 out of 6 rotations gg was effectively the libero). Orzol is a 6 rotation outside who isn't as terminal as you would like(it would be interesting to see her on the beach). But, with the other arms and frank out of the backrow, I can see it working fine(it did two years ago). If wrobel can beat her out, so be it.
If GG can't get over the hump on passing, she is the ds for smrek and the best passer of the young smalls takes over the libero jersey. It's hard to be confident in the backcourt though since none of the freshman(including damrow) has done it yet.
I'm not convinced there is a open scholarship at the moment, but given the new times, it is pretty fluid anyway. So, wouldn't be surprised if someone is added. Given history, could be almost anything.
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Post by maigrey on Dec 16, 2023 13:42:40 GMT -5
Does anyone have Landfair's passing numbers for 2023 and 2022? Thanks. This was in the Transfer Portal thread, 2023 #:
Badgers fans do not really want Landfair, we need to improve passing. However, if Wucherer wanted to play in her home state, that is another matter.
they both passed between a 1.9-2.0 (1.91 for TayLa and 1.97 for wucherer) with the exact same error & overpass rate
I'm not Sheffield, obviously, but I don't think I would take either of them. I think going to a 5-1 we are a little less thin on the pins, especially if Wrobel is going to be healthy, and we'll have Julia back as an OH option. I really don't think, from what Julia has said, that she wants to be a libero full time. She's taking this as a year where she can work on the back row part of her game so she can be a much better 6-ro OH. I would rather get a grad libero who can help with GG and Damrow in the back, and let Lola red shirt.
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Post by maigrey on Dec 16, 2023 13:45:31 GMT -5
When you step back and think of what our front row might look like: Franklin, Landfair, Booth, Robinson, and Smrek Every single player is an All American. This would be the best in all of college volleyball. Great, but we lost to Texas because of our back row. We lost to Pitt last year because of our back row. Our front row is not the problem.
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Post by badgerbreath on Dec 16, 2023 13:47:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree. Franklin did a lot to solve our passing woes. Nonetheless the badgers are still too susceptible to breakdowns, especially away from the Field House (except for that match in Lincoln).
If we add an arm, (and it's not clear to me that we can depending on how the partials work out) it has to be one that can pass. I think Landfair poses a lot of the same problems TTA did in that regard.
I'm hoping between Damrow and the incoming smalls, someone can push GG, or add stability passing. If we move to a 5-1 and the BR talent pans out, GG's stellar OOS setting becomes less essential.
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Post by chibadgerfan on Dec 16, 2023 13:55:52 GMT -5
After last year, and the addition of Booth, I was content to run it back with the returners. Was not excited at all about the talk/possibility of Podraza or overly enthused about what tta could add since I was more concerned about passing than adding another arm. Turned out that the concern of frank going 6 rotations wasn't the problem as she improved greatly, for the year, as a whole. Ultimately though, passing still did us in again. Next year it's a 5-1 and i again think there are enough big arms with devyn, anna, booth and frank that the number one improvement target should be passing. To me orzol has always been awesome, but she isn't a libero(3 out of 6 rotations gg was effectively the libero). Orzol is a 6 rotation outside who isn't as terminal as you would like(it would be interesting to see her on the beach). But, with the other arms and frank out of the backrow, I can see it working fine(it did two years ago). If wrobel can beat her out, so be it. If GG can't get over the hump on passing, she is the ds for smrek and the best passer of the young smalls takes over the libero jersey. It's hard to be confident in the backcourt though since none of the freshman(including damrow) has done it yet. I'm not convinced there is an open scholarship at the moment, but given the new times, it is pretty fluid anyway. So, wouldn't be surprised if someone is added. Given history, could be almost anything. If we compare the 2021 championship roster and 2023 final four roster, I think 2021 has the edge in set (Hilley), back row (Barnes), and flexibility (5-1); however, 2023 has a slight edge in attack and block. If we then compare vs 2024, we’ll have Fuerbringer, Damrow, Schumacher, and the 5-1, all without using the portal, giving us the 2021 edges back (hopefully), while our attack should remain high (block power will go down some with the setter in the front row for three rotations).
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Post by maigrey on Dec 16, 2023 14:20:38 GMT -5
If we compare the 2021 championship roster and 2023 final four roster, I think 2021 has the edge in set (Hilley), back row (Barnes), and flexibility (5-1); however, 2023 has a slight edge in attack and block. If we then compare vs 2024, we’ll have Fuerbringer, Damrow, Schumacher, and the 5-1, all without using the portal, giving us the 2021 edges back (hopefully), while our attack should remain high (block power will go down some with the setter in the front row for three rotations). The back row in 21 also had Georgia Civita, and Izzy doing three rotations of just defense and serving, as well as handling the second ball if Sid took the first. Those were elite DS ladies. Plus, Jocelyn would step in occasionally as well. And when Izzy was in the back we were rarely out of system, since we had our backup setter taking the second ball. That gives the 2021 back row not just an advantage, but like a tenfold dominance over the 2023 one. We haven't had a back row like that since 2021, and it shows. (And I'm not complaining, because I do think the 6-2 was the best choice for our players, but all of the 2021 bigs commented that they would not have won if it wasn't for their littles)
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Post by dbro1970 on Dec 16, 2023 14:21:13 GMT -5
This was in the Transfer Portal thread, 2023 #:
Badgers fans do not really want Landfair, we need to improve passing. However, if Wucherer wanted to play in her home state, that is another matter.
they both passed between a 1.9-2.0 (1.91 for TayLa and 1.97 for wucherer) with the exact same error & overpass rate
I'm not Sheffield, obviously, but I don't think I would take either of them. I think going to a 5-1 we are a little less thin on the pins, especially if Wrobel is going to be healthy, and we'll have Julia back as an OH option. I really don't think, from what Julia has said, that she wants to be a libero full time. She's taking this as a year where she can work on the back row part of her game so she can be a much better 6-ro OH. I would rather get a grad libero who can help with GG and Damrow in the back, and let Lola red shirt. you wouldn't take the 2022 big ten player of the year and a former 1dt team all American to be on your team?
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Post by maigrey on Dec 16, 2023 14:24:12 GMT -5
I'm not Sheffield, obviously, but I don't think I would take either of them. I think going to a 5-1 we are a little less thin on the pins, especially if Wrobel is going to be healthy, and we'll have Julia back as an OH option. I really don't think, from what Julia has said, that she wants to be a libero full time. She's taking this as a year where she can work on the back row part of her game so she can be a much better 6-ro OH. I would rather get a grad libero who can help with GG and Damrow in the back, and let Lola red shirt. you wouldn't take the 2022 big ten player of the year and a former 1dt team all American to be on your team? No, I wouldn't. I would prefer to get back to the 2021 back row. We can handle one streaky OH2, but we can't handle the breakdowns in passing and defense anymore. We won a championship with Grace Loberg and an elite back row. We have shown that in the past two years not having an elite back row is a problem. So, if we're going to a 5-1 I don't think we need any more bigs. In other terms: defense wins championships.
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Post by 25or624 on Dec 16, 2023 14:26:36 GMT -5
If we compare the 2021 championship roster and 2023 final four roster, I think 2021 has the edge in set (Hilley), back row (Barnes), and flexibility (5-1); however, 2023 has a slight edge in attack and block. If we then compare vs 2024, we’ll have Fuerbringer, Damrow, Schumacher, and the 5-1, all without using the portal, giving us the 2021 edges back (hopefully), while our attack should remain high (block power will go down some with the setter in the front row for three rotations). The back row in 21 also had Georgia Civita, and Izzy doing three rotations of just defense and serving, as well as handling the second ball if Sid took the first. Those were elite DS ladies. Plus, Jocelyn would step in occasionally as well. And when Izzy was in the back we were rarely out of system, since we had our backup setter taking the second ball. That gives the 2021 back row not just an advantage, but like a tenfold dominance over the 2023 one. We haven't had a back row like that since 2021, and it shows. (And I'm not complaining, because I do think the 6-2 was the best choice for our players, but all of the 2021 bigs commented that they would not have went if it wasn't for their littles) Yes to this.
If Barnes is on the court in place of GG, Badgers beat Texas; Discuss.
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Post by badgerbreath on Dec 16, 2023 14:30:44 GMT -5
If we compare the 2021 championship roster and 2023 final four roster, I think 2021 has the edge in set (Hilley), back row (Barnes), and flexibility (5-1); however, 2023 has a slight edge in attack and block. If we then compare vs 2024, we’ll have Fuerbringer, Damrow, Schumacher, and the 5-1, all without using the portal, giving us the 2021 edges back (hopefully), while our attack should remain high (block power will go down some with the setter in the front row for three rotations). The back row in 21 also had Georgia Civita, and Izzy doing three rotations of just defense and serving, as well as handling the second ball if Sid took the first. Those were elite DS ladies. Plus, Jocelyn would step in occasionally as well. And when Izzy was in the back we were rarely out of system, since we had our backup setter taking the second ball. That gives the 2021 back row not just an advantage, but like a tenfold dominance over the 2023 one. We haven't had a back row like that since 2021, and it shows. (And I'm not complaining, because I do think the 6-2 was the best choice for our players, but all of the 2021 bigs commented that they would not have won if it wasn't for their littles) Wait, I thought Izzy was Rettke's serving sub that year. Are you thinking about 2019? Maybe I'm misremembering.
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Post by maigrey on Dec 16, 2023 14:31:35 GMT -5
The back row in 21 also had Georgia Civita, and Izzy doing three rotations of just defense and serving, as well as handling the second ball if Sid took the first. Those were elite DS ladies. Plus, Jocelyn would step in occasionally as well. And when Izzy was in the back we were rarely out of system, since we had our backup setter taking the second ball. That gives the 2021 back row not just an advantage, but like a tenfold dominance over the 2023 one. We haven't had a back row like that since 2021, and it shows. (And I'm not complaining, because I do think the 6-2 was the best choice for our players, but all of the 2021 bigs commented that they would not have went if it wasn't for their littles) Yes to this.
If Barnes is on the court in place of GG, Badgers beat Texas; Discuss.
I think the advantage goes way up, but aren't you still passing two when TTA is front row?
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Post by robtearle on Dec 16, 2023 14:32:49 GMT -5
The back row in 21 also had Georgia Civita, and Izzy doing three rotations of just defense and serving, as well as handling the second ball if Sid took the first. Those were elite DS ladies. Plus, Jocelyn would step in occasionally as well. And when Izzy was in the back we were rarely out of system, since we had our backup setter taking the second ball. That gives the 2021 back row not just an advantage, but like a tenfold dominance over the 2023 one. We haven't had a back row like that since 2021, and it shows. (And I'm not complaining, because I do think the 6-2 was the best choice for our players, but all of the 2021 bigs commented that they would not have went if it wasn't for their littles) Yes to this.
If Barnes is on the court in place of GG, Badgers beat Texas; Discuss.
For the great portion of the 2021 season, the DSs were Civita and Boyer; Izzy was a serving sub for Dana. She didn't play three rotations, she was on for a half-rotation. The only time Izzy played three rotations was when Gio was injured. Mid-November, Sheffield came up with the Jade Demps backrow attacker lineup, and Boyer "lost her job". Izzy continued to serve-sub for Dana.
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Post by robtearle on Dec 16, 2023 14:34:56 GMT -5
The back row in 21 also had Georgia Civita, and Izzy doing three rotations of just defense and serving, as well as handling the second ball if Sid took the first. Those were elite DS ladies. Plus, Jocelyn would step in occasionally as well. And when Izzy was in the back we were rarely out of system, since we had our backup setter taking the second ball. That gives the 2021 back row not just an advantage, but like a tenfold dominance over the 2023 one. We haven't had a back row like that since 2021, and it shows. (And I'm not complaining, because I do think the 6-2 was the best choice for our players, but all of the 2021 bigs commented that they would not have went if it wasn't for their littles) Yes to this.
If Barnes is on the court in place of GG, Badgers beat Texas; Discuss.
As far as "beating Texas", we entered the Twilight Zone. Texas was going to win, we were going to lose. GG led the team with 13 digs, and was easily the best UW server, BTW. We did NOT lost because of GG. (Worse Twilight Zone episode EVER!)
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Post by maigrey on Dec 16, 2023 14:37:59 GMT -5
The back row in 21 also had Georgia Civita, and Izzy doing three rotations of just defense and serving, as well as handling the second ball if Sid took the first. Those were elite DS ladies. Plus, Jocelyn would step in occasionally as well. And when Izzy was in the back we were rarely out of system, since we had our backup setter taking the second ball. That gives the 2021 back row not just an advantage, but like a tenfold dominance over the 2023 one. We haven't had a back row like that since 2021, and it shows. (And I'm not complaining, because I do think the 6-2 was the best choice for our players, but all of the 2021 bigs commented that they would not have won if it wasn't for their littles) Wait, I thought Izzy was Rettke's serving sub that year. Are you thinking about 2019? Maybe I'm misremembering. I am almost positive Izzy was Lohberg's DS. EDIT: looks like I was wrong 😂
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