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Post by pelagius on Mar 1, 2024 23:00:49 GMT -5
Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into an exhibition, much less one in March. The season doesn't start for nearly six more months. Sure, the way to probably put it is there is plenty of reasons to be worried about passing and setting going into 2024 and the scrimmage did nothing to alleviate those concerns. For example, based on 2023 I didn't project Biletter and Miller as solid college Liberos (I think both can be used productively as DS next to an above average college Libero). This scrimmage was consistent with that projection.
Ive seen most spring scrimmages over the last ten years. BYU has sometimes looked bad in the spring and later had very nice seasons. I do think it is worth noting this is the worst I've ever seen.
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Post by bbg95 on Mar 1, 2024 23:18:33 GMT -5
Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into an exhibition, much less one in March. The season doesn't start for nearly six more months. Sure, the way to probably put it is there is plenty of reasons to be worried about passing and setting going into 2024 and the scrimmage did nothing to alleviate those concerns. For example, based on 2023 I didn't project Biletter and Miller as solid college Liberos (I think both can be used productively as DS next to an above average college Libero). This scrimmage was consistent with that projection.
Ive seen most spring scrimmages over the last ten years. BYU has sometimes looked bad in the spring and later had very nice seasons. I do think it is worth noting this is the worst I've ever seen.
Sure, I agree that there's reason to be concerned about those areas just because they're replacing W. Bower, Hiapo and McComber. But I am steadfast in not caring about scrimmages in any sport unless someone gets hurt, though injuries can happen in regular practices too.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Mar 2, 2024 1:45:06 GMT -5
That scrimmage is probably better forgotten. Utah won all four sets rather easily. It would not surprise at all if Jardine has a really nice year (all Big-12) this Fall.
BYU struggled. I am definitely not going to do much of a recap.
Passsing: it was bad. BYU's best hope is that Uluave comes in and is awesome. Billeter and Miller both got time and Libero; both struggled. Johnson got time at DS; she struggled more. Livingston played some six rotation. She struggled too. Little's was ok.
Setting: I not going to say much since the passing was so bad. Alex Bower set most of the time though. 2.5 sets in a 5-1 and 1/2 set in a 6-2 with Thunstrom. Thunstrom and Damini ran a 6-2 in set three. So it seems like Alex Bower is the presumptive starter. Given the passing, I'm reserving judgment.
Not sure it's worth talking about hitting or other stuff.
Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into an exhibition, much less one in March. The season doesn't start for nearly six more months. I seem to recall Utah also beating BYU in a scrimmage prior to the spring 2021 season. But when the season actually happened, BYU was better. And I'd be saying the same thing even if BYU blew Utah off the floor in the scrimmage. Exhibition games don't actually matter. We need real matches to see. For once I agree with bbg. The decision to start Bower is probably a glimpse of what Heather is going to do this spring. The blocking was bad, the passing wasn't that good and the competitiveness of the BYU roster wasn't that good. Someone made a comment about Jardine on the Utah team .... I would be surprised if she gets all B12 honors as she simply can't pass the ball. She has been very inconsistent in her hitting % over the years and she can't serve well. She probably had something to prove against BYU tonight. Despite a poor showing by BYU I look for them to bounce back over the next 3 weeks.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Mar 2, 2024 2:00:08 GMT -5
Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into an exhibition, much less one in March. The season doesn't start for nearly six more months. Sure, the way to probably put it is there is plenty of reasons to be worried about passing and setting going into 2024 and the scrimmage did nothing to alleviate those concerns. For example, based on 2023 I didn't project Biletter and Miller as solid college Liberos (I think both can be used productively as DS next to an above average college Libero). This scrimmage was consistent with that projection.
Ive seen most spring scrimmages over the last ten years. BYU has sometimes looked bad in the spring and later had very nice seasons. I do think it is worth noting this is the worst I've ever seen.
The more I read these comments the more worried I become. Lulu should help, but again I point out that BYU could have had 2-3 more passers on the roster but choose to put a bunch of average pin hitters on the bench instead of loading up on passers, in an attempt to find just 2 legit ones. It is very hard for a freshman to come in and play at a high level at L. I am not going to evaluate the setters until we get another couple of matches under the watchful eye of the coaches this spring. But I am shocked that Bower and Damuni didn't split time and especially that Damuni wasn't allowed to play front row in a 5-1. If Heather doesn't allow Damuni to play in a 5-1 there will be a lot of questions.
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Post by pelagius on Mar 2, 2024 2:27:19 GMT -5
The more I read these comments the more worried I become. Lulu should help, but again I point out that BYU could have had 2-3 more passers on the roster but choose to put a bunch of average pin hitters on the bench instead of loading up on passers, in an attempt to find just 2 legit ones. It is very hard for a freshman to come in and play at a high level at L. I am not going to evaluate the setters until we get another couple of matches under the watchful eye of the coaches this spring. But I am shocked that Bower and Damuni didn't split time and especially that Damuni wasn't allowed to play front row in a 5-1. If Heather doesn't allow Damuni to play in a 5-1 there will be a lot of questions. Yeah, I was hoping in the 4th set when both Utah and BYU went to what looked like their ones/starters, that Damuni would get a chance to play in a 5-1. In case people are wondering here is what BYU went with in set 4: OH1: Livingston (6 ro) OH2: Little (6 ro) OPP: Prior / Miller backrow MB: Lee MB: Kemavor S: A. Bower L: Billeter It will be interesting to see if Damuni gets much 5-1 time in the future spring games.
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Post by pelagius on Mar 2, 2024 2:40:43 GMT -5
A note about who played at the pins (may not be perfect recall here) for sets 1-3
First set:
OH: Little and E. Bower OPP: Prior
2nd Set: OH: Livingston and E. Bower and later Stowell OPP: Prior and then also Bobik when BYU switched to the 6-2 (small sample but Bobik looks talented to me)
Third Set OH: Bobik and Benson OPP: Stowell and E. Bower <- 6-2 this whole set
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vvv
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Post by vvv on Mar 2, 2024 13:15:26 GMT -5
Wow- I have been reading posts for a while, but haven't responded for a minute. Yes, it is a Spring game and they will get better. I think I have to agree that Marn, although many bash on his posts, does see many things the way they are. He was the one who said Alex Bower would probably end up as starting setter. That is what we saw last night. I wanted to at least see all three setters take a 5-1 set, but that didn't happen. Thundstrom looked pretty good too, but it was so hard to tell with them getting so little time. I know what damuni can do as a setter; I have seen it time and time again. I am just floored at how she was not given a chance to even show anything last night? Marn called this..... He said there will be questions if damuni doesn't get more of a chance to play a 5-1 or just play period. I would not be surprised if she transfers to a school that will utilize her skills and abilities like Meyer and Decker both did. Was Livingston injured? She didn't play a ton, but maybe they were resting her just getting back from Open.
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Mar 2, 2024 13:24:26 GMT -5
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Post by bbg95 on Mar 2, 2024 13:24:26 GMT -5
Wow- I have been reading posts for a while, but haven't responded for a minute. Yes, it is a Spring game and they will get better. I think I have to agree that Marn, although many bash on his posts, does see many things the way they are. He was the one who said Alex Bower would probably end up as starting setter. That is what we saw last night. I wanted to at least see all three setters take a 5-1 set, but that didn't happen. Thundstrom looked pretty good too, but it was so hard to tell with them getting so little time. I know what damuni can do as a setter; I have seen it time and time again. I am just floored at how she was not given a chance to even show anything last night? Marn called this..... He said there will be questions if damuni doesn't get more of a chance to play a 5-1 or just play period. I would not be surprised if she transfers to a school that will utilize her skills and abilities like Meyer and Decker both did. Was Livingston injured? She didn't play a ton, but maybe they were resting her just getting back from Open. Marn really can't be taken seriously on anything. As for the team, wake me in August.
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vvv
Sophomore
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Post by vvv on Mar 2, 2024 15:54:10 GMT -5
Well, some of his claims are fact- especially the club v ones. But, this isn't a club v thread, so will just keep reading and seeing what really comes to fruition by August.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Mar 2, 2024 17:00:33 GMT -5
A note about who played at the pins (may not be perfect recall here) for sets 1-3
First set:
OH: Little and E. Bower OPP: Prior
2nd Set: OH: Livingston and E. Bower and later Stowell OPP: Prior and then also Bobik when BYU switched to the 6-2 (small sample but Bobik looks talented to me)
Third Set OH: Bobik and Benson OPP: Stowell and E. Bower <- 6-2 this whole set
Thanks for the info! Interesting on that second set ... not to read too much into any set in this scrimmage but one kind of has to think that getting beat 25-10 is very concerning for everyone on the BYU side of the court. BYU has a ton of size up front so I would really like to see that particular set. If Bobik looks talented and the team only scored 10 points .... lots of questions. Bower ran a 5-1 in that set??
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Post by marnvbc2 on Mar 2, 2024 17:08:46 GMT -5
A note about who played at the pins (may not be perfect recall here) for sets 1-3
First set:
OH: Little and E. Bower OPP: Prior
2nd Set: OH: Livingston and E. Bower and later Stowell OPP: Prior and then also Bobik when BYU switched to the 6-2 (small sample but Bobik looks talented to me)
Third Set OH: Bobik and Benson OPP: Stowell and E. Bower <- 6-2 this whole set
Just curious on how you thought Bobik and Benson looked at OH? Was that the set Damuni and Thunstrom ran a 6-2?
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Post by pelagius on Mar 2, 2024 17:15:08 GMT -5
Bower ran a 5-1 in that set?? 6-2. They were obviously way behind. Utah scored like 15 points when A. Bower was in the back row at the beginning of the set. I don't think A. Bower ever had front row rotations in the second set (but maybe I'm remembering wrong). But Thunstrom didn't play that much in the second set because of the run of points by Utah while Bower was in the back.
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Post by pelagius on Mar 2, 2024 17:26:02 GMT -5
Just curious on how you thought Bobik and Benson looked at OH? Was that the set Damuni and Thunstrom ran a 6-2? Yes, Damuni and Thunstrom. BYU rotated Benson with Billeter at one OH (Miller played L). Bobik played six rotations that set at the other OH (at least at the beginning ... I think she rotated with Johnson towards the end ... they weren't actually worrying about sub limits). When I said Bobik looked talented I based that more on set 3 when she played OH than RS in the second. She just didn't get much time in the second given how lopsided the score was. It's a small sample, but I was impressed with her: athletic, good jumper, good arm. It's too small of sample to tell how well she reads blocks, and whether she hits with range effectively. Still, I liked what I saw. She also did ok in serve-receive; too small of sample to make a definitive inference, but she may have six rotation potential. I didn't watch Benson close enough.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Mar 2, 2024 18:06:04 GMT -5
Well, some of his claims are fact- especially the club v ones. But, this isn't a club v thread, so will just keep reading and seeing what really comes to fruition by August. Triple V - be very careful, you are treading on very thin ice when you disagree with bbg about BYU anything. She and the V coach love to smack me down with "you can't take anything Marn says seriously" or "she/he (or her/him) just makes things up and hates the Bowers and Heather" and "all lies" etc. Factually speaking, the points I have made over the years are all correct (exception when I forgot Madi A played L her freshman season). The rub is that when my truth speaking turns out to be correct, they are even more ticked off than when I originally bring up the subject(s). Many years ago I said Heather was a poor coach and talent evaluator when recruiting passers. The wrath of bbg was immediate! Heather is simply not a good setting coach either. Stubborn as can be when it comes to passers and setters. She will not act on any advice that she is given even if it is correct. If she would just admit that she needs to hire a passing coach and allow them to recruit and train the girls, she and the program would be better off. She Won't do it! The Bower issue (problem) is just something that makes the whole situation explosive. She is enamored with Eden. Heather wanted her from the time Eden was 12. When I said Eden wasn't capable of even average passing, has almost no block, can't jump, swings from her knees etc bbg and a few others went ballistic. People came out of the woodwork to route me out. Then I said W Bower was very over-rated (inconsistent) in her setting to the OH and Opp .... and she wouldn't set the middle often enough (she was more accurate to the middle). I complained that the 2 setters in the program when Bower arrived, after Heather called the Bower mom immediately after losing in the NCAA tourney in the final 4 to get Whitney to come a year early, were better than Bower. Heather never allowed them to play 1 set just in case they showed their accuracy (remember when Heather actually took Whitney out of a set at USD because BYU was getting hammered) and put Hifo in? Hifo scored more pts in her one set than Bower did in 2 sets. That became a problem for the Bower family - which was expressed. Never happened again! Heather has a history of not playing certain players because she either falls in love with a player who shouldn't be starting or is afraid that the backup (who isn't liked as much by H) will show their upside in a match and make Heather look silly for not playing them. Grimmer starting .... ever .... at BYU was a perfect example of what I am talking about. Meyer not playing at all was another example! Morgan Bower on the roster for 4 year is yet another example. When I pointed these out .... commenters were all over me until Prior actually got on the court and shut everyone up about Grimmer. Grimmer was loved by Heather. On and on with other examples, but all are true .... nonetheless certain people go crazy mad when I point things out- bbg ..... I have said it before, Damuni is a way better setter than A Bower in all respects. The question remains as to whether Heather will allow her to play in front of A Bower or even let Damuni play a 5-1? If Heather doesn't allow Damuni to play a 5-1 it is because she is scared of how well Damuni will do and it will embarrass Heather. It is not out of the realm of possibility that we never see Damuni in a 5-1 with the starters at BYU .... which is too bad for BYU and the rest of the teammates on the roster. But, we will all be able to watch and learn as the fall season unfolds. If I am wrong and Damuni ends up starting .... I will be happy for the BYU program. Just very concerned we might have a Zayna Meyer situation on our hands.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Mar 2, 2024 18:18:49 GMT -5
I have more answers than the U of U program has .... If you don’t say so yourself… Hey hanmertime - can i put you on record as thinking it is good for Utah to play Salt Lake Community College? You must be on board since you are dogging me on complaining about Utah's spring schedule. Maybe they will schedule Club V's 18 team too? That would actually be a better match .... except V would get out coached. From an athletic perspective it would be an even match.
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