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Post by straightnochaser on Jun 27, 2024 14:38:45 GMT -5
IMO I don’t think the issue is the making of the offer. I think allowing the coaches to make the offers will allow the visits to make sense for the athletes. Are coaches going to spring for visits to athletes they don’t make offers too? That could get pretty expensive. I think if you restrict the time in which you can make a verbal commitment ( August 15th perhaps), you could alleviate some of the pressure. I think they should keep the calls and offers at June 15, move up visits and push back verbal commitments and I bet there will be less pressure. The reason athletes don’t commit right away is because they want to take their visits and those that commit right away don’t want to wait to schedule a visit so far down the road. This would give them a little more time to visit ( not much)since they wouldn’t be able to verbally commit until a later date. Those who already know where they want to go will still get some time to start visits but if they don’t feel they need to visit before they commit, they still have that 2 month cooling off period to decide. For good reason, PSAs don't have rules about what they can and cannot do in their recruiting process. Only the paid employees of NCAA institutions are responsible for knowing and following NCAA bylaws. So I don't know how you restrict commitments. Restricting offers is a rule for coaches to follow, so is more doable. Wouldn’t it be similar to restrictions on when you can officially commit? Like National signing day but different? Lol Or perhaps instruct the athletes and the coaches that they cannot accept verbal commitments until a certain date? You certainly wouldn’t get the influx of posts until after that date which would arguably alleviate some of the pressure. I hear what you are saying though, hard to enforce. A part of me thinks that just like how volleyball doesn’t post about all the offers the athlete receives, this could somehow be part of the volleyball culture. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking! Posting about offers is not a rule but just isn’t done in volleyball. If they set a rule for no verbals until August 15, even if some don’t follow, it will likely not be posted and therefore can still alleviate the pressure… Still think they can move up visits. This alone could help. |
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Post by 1volleyfan on Jun 27, 2024 16:16:28 GMT -5
Just curious what article or post mentions a Wisconsin commit feeling pressured to sign?
I always imagined for the very very top players, they know well before 6/15 who is going to offer. I’m sure those D1 coaches have made their presence known watching them at big events like Triple Crown and then moseyed on over to chat with their coach or called afterwards and that dialogue continued on into the Spring so that on 6/15 they already had their sweatshirt in order to make the announcement.
I think it’s more like the other 98% of girls who are good enough to play D1 who may have a local name and be state ranked but not nationally ranked that feel pressure to commit for fear that if they take their time and do their due diligence the offer will no longer be there when they are finally ready to say I do.
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Post by straightnochaser on Jun 27, 2024 16:42:03 GMT -5
Just curious what article or post mentions a Wisconsin commit feeling pressured to sign? I always imagined for the very very top players, they know well before 6/15 who is going to offer. I’m sure those D1 coaches have made their presence known watching them at big events like Triple Crown and then moseyed on over to chat with their coach or called afterwards and that dialogue continued on into the Spring so that on 6/15 they already had their sweatshirt in order to make the announcement. I think it’s more like the other 98% of girls who are good enough to play D1 who may have a local name and be state ranked but not nationally ranked that feel pressure to commit for fear that if they take their time and do their due diligence the offer will no longer be there when they are finally ready to say I do. Halle Thompson mentioned it in her VBAdrenaline interview but she wasn’t the only one. I know other top athletes that did receive offers but originally wanted to take visits. However, after seeing others commit right away, they begin to wonder whether their offer will stand long enough to take a visit. Since visits can only take place 2+ months after an offer, this naturally creates pressure. Some coaches may be willing to wait but others do not. And this happens for the top 2% as well. Some coaches have made offers on June 15th but gave athletes less than 24 hours to decide. That’s pressure! Agree there are a handful of girls that do know where they want to go and they likely don’t feel the pressure but believe it or not, a large percentage of the top girls do not. They’ve narrowed their list but often feel pressure to choose by either the coaches or watching others quickly make their decisions. |
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Post by TimTheEnchanter on Jun 27, 2024 18:27:29 GMT -5
If this is true, a rule against coaches making offers would actually be effective. If a kid can't make a commitment post with an investigation being launched into the school to see if an offer was made, then we will succeed in removing the peer pressure that all of the public commitments make. Sure, it does not mean that a coach won't be able to call an athlete and say "we're offering you a full scholarship, but you can't tell anybody". But (a) it's hard to not sound super shady making that offer and (b) it still succeeds in slowing down the commitment process if the athlete can't publicly post. IMO I don’t think the issue is the making of the offer. I think allowing the coaches to make the offers will allow the visits to make sense for the athletes. Are coaches going to spring for visits to athletes they don’t make offers too? That could get pretty expensive. I think if you restrict the time in which you can make a verbal commitment ( August 15th perhaps), you could alleviate some of the pressure. I think they should keep the calls and offers at June 15, move up visits and push back verbal commitments and I bet there will be less pressure. The reason athletes don’t commit right away is because they want to take their visits and those that commit right away don’t want to wait to schedule a visit so far down the road. This would give them a little more time to visit ( not much)since they wouldn’t be able to verbally commit until a later date. Those who already know where they want to go will still get some time to start visits but if they don’t feel they need to visit before they commit, they still have that 2 month cooling off period to decide. I think this approach makes the most sense to me. If you don’t like the literal words “offer” and “commitment”, call it a “proposal” and “verbal” or whatever you want. The NCAA controls what it can control and puts the onus on the coach to not accept the “verbal” until the later date. That shouldn’t be any harder to police than the Jun15 date is now and should go a long way to effectively slow down the process and remove a lot of pressure and potential suboptimal decisions. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 27, 2024 20:15:31 GMT -5
It's not there yet because there haven't been enough flips to remove the stigma, but these trends are going to resolve themselves pretty simply once it becomes not so unusual for an athlete to flip. Just like in football, there will be commitments that allow athletes to lock up offers but also won't end the recruiting process.
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Post by VBallLife on Jun 27, 2024 21:22:29 GMT -5
The fact that several of these kids committed without ever stepping foot on the campus is disturbing. They went with the “top” offer for volleyball reasons only.
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Post by chibadgerfan on Jun 27, 2024 21:39:08 GMT -5
The fact that several of these kids committed without ever stepping foot on the campus is disturbing. They went with the “top” offer for volleyball reasons only. They may not have taken an official visit, but there’s a good chance they’ve visited the campus on their own anyway, such as through a camp. Moreover, while I don’t know which campuses you mean, I don’t think one needs to visit, for example, Texas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Louisville, Pitt, Minnesota, etc. to know they are all are more than adequate academically. |
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Post by volley4ever on Jun 28, 2024 4:32:01 GMT -5
Good luck getting some coaches to follow rules. I know first hand of coaches letting the club coach or recruiting coordinator know ahead of time that they will be offering the athlete on June 15th and that the athlete needs to be ready to make a decision. These are the same coaches that are being contacted by the club coaches or recruiting coordinators to find out if they will be looking for a certain position in the portal after the season because their former player is transferring.
It is a never ending cycle and it’s not going to end because you aren’t going to catch them.
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Post by ladyfan on Jun 28, 2024 7:41:31 GMT -5
There’s not necessarily a lot of difference between how athletes select their school and how other students do it. Some families take lots of tours and carefully weigh out the pros and cons of each place. Others do not. Some kids go to school having only seen the brochure. Others visit campus multiple times. Some students are drawn to a particular program, only to end up changing their major anyway.
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Post by rjaege on Jun 28, 2024 7:47:29 GMT -5
The fact that several of these kids committed without ever stepping foot on the campus is disturbing. They went with the “top” offer for volleyball reasons only. They may not have taken an official visit, but there’s a good chance they’ve visited the campus on their own anyway, such as through a camp. Moreover, while I don’t know which campuses you mean, I don’t think one needs to visit, for example, Texas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Louisville, Pitt, Minnesota, etc. to know they are all are more than adequate academically. Suspect many top 20 recruits prime focus is furthering their volleyball careers. IMO that's understandable and a viable career path, especially since the college graduation rate is very high for VB players. When they finish their VB playing careers their life experiences will impact their career opportunities as much or more than where they got their college degree, again IMO. There are some fields, e.g., engineering, not offered by all colleges. Obviously the availability of a degree in their field of interest then plays a role. |
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Post by batnasterson on Jun 28, 2024 8:10:26 GMT -5
There’s not necessarily a lot of difference between how athletes select their school and how other students do it. Some families take lots of tours and carefully weigh out the pros and cons of each place. Others do not. Some kids go to school having only seen the brochure. Others visit campus multiple times. Some students are drawn to a particular program, only to end up changing their major anyway. Yeah I never understood why people make such a big deal about it. I mean, I get it, you SHOULD visit before, but I'd say about half of my friend group in high school visited the school they were going to before deciding to go there, and none of them transferred. |
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Post by VBallLife on Jun 28, 2024 9:34:11 GMT -5
The fact that several of these kids committed without ever stepping foot on the campus is disturbing. They went with the “top” offer for volleyball reasons only. They may not have taken an official visit, but there’s a good chance they’ve visited the campus on their own anyway, such as through a camp. Moreover, while I don’t know which campuses you mean, I don’t think one needs to visit, for example, Texas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Louisville, Pitt, Minnesota, etc. to know they are all are more than adequate academically. There were two who admitted to have never been to the respective campuses of the schools they committed too. They said it in articles. |
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Post by volleyaudience on Jun 28, 2024 11:02:09 GMT -5
It's good to search for ways to improve the recruiting process. However, there are huge, maybe permanent ,supply and demand forces at work on both sides of recruiting. IMO There are limits on how much you can force changed behavior on coaches, players and families in this important area.
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Post by TimTheEnchanter on Jun 28, 2024 12:51:24 GMT -5
There’s not necessarily a lot of difference between how athletes select their school and how other students do it. Some families take lots of tours and carefully weigh out the pros and cons of each place. Others do not. Some kids go to school having only seen the brochure. Others visit campus multiple times. Some students are drawn to a particular program, only to end up changing their major anyway. Yeah I never understood why people make such a big deal about it. I mean, I get it, you SHOULD visit before, but I'd say about half of my friend group in high school visited the school they were going to before deciding to go there, and none of them transferred. One analogous difference is if when you went off to college you spent half of your time there with 2-3 professors exclusively for 4 yrs |
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Post by fightingminime on Jun 28, 2024 13:37:23 GMT -5
You really do have all the time in the world to get to know a program, to make visits, go to camps, see who commits where, etc. I recall Rachel Adams waited ages and I think about 8 programs held scholarships for her until she committed to Texas in November of senior year if I recall. Every so often there is an athlete that knows her value and makes the schools play her game, and if you are good, they will gladly play. For a long time Stanford's admissions process made many athletes slow down and gave an excuse to many others. A daughter of a friend was waiting on Stanford and had at least 3 other top schools more than happy to hold offers for her incase it didn't work out at Stanford. It worked out, and the other schools moved on. Yet Richkern.com is approaching 130 players committed in 10 days, so I don't think this message is getting out. The thing is though .. most athletes are not Rachel Adams, or Kelly Murphy, or some of the more uber elite athletes that coaches will wait for. I agree, that so much of it is fomo and peer pressure ... but using an outlier like Adams isn't real either. I need an average Joe example that was able to wait. |
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