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Post by wilbur on Jul 26, 2024 19:11:09 GMT -5
these limits only apply to schools that want to opt into the new system and compete for the high value athletes in the $ sports. If a university wants to keep the old scholie limit (e.g. mens VB 4.5) they can have a bigger roster as long as they don't use the new system to pay athletes. It is not clear if a University or conference can redefine to separate sports out so they can pay basketball players and not volleyball, but seems unlikely. The D1 universities that want to keep the old system can and all D2 do by default as this is written for D1 only. Stanford, Ohio State, Penn State, UCLA, USC, BYU seem likely to go to a 18 man roster and maybe other schools do too so they can pay the basketball players... and ADs at schools like UCSD, UCI, CSUN, UCSB might like the limited roster as an excuse to limit program size and costs with no obligation to fund differently and freedom to split up scholarships and avoid the old NCAA regulations for sports they want to promote. |
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Post by Not Me on Jul 26, 2024 21:22:46 GMT -5
Scholarships are not a measurement anymore. It is solely roster size. 18 players on a volleyball roster. That’s it. Doesn’t matter if they get a scholarship or not. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Jul 26, 2024 21:42:39 GMT -5
To me, that reads that schools that opt out of revenue sharing and simply follow the old NCAA rules will be allowed to have uncapped rosters. But that means remaining at 4.5 scholarships. And it's worth noting this is at a university level, not sport by sport. So Ohio State, UCLA, USC, etc will definitely be capped at 18 athletes. Somebody like Saint Francis will almost certainly not opt in to revenue sharing, so their roster would remain uncapped, but they'd keep the 4.5 scholarship cap. then will the Big West Conference develop a schollie limit for their schools? also have to wonder if BYU, UCLA, USC, Ohio State, Penn State, Stanford try to unify in presumably a Big 10 sponsored sport with affiliate members I would speculate they might also invite Harvard and Princeton if they did so |
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Post by wilbur on Jul 26, 2024 22:21:39 GMT -5
To me, that reads that schools that opt out of revenue sharing and simply follow the old NCAA rules will be allowed to have uncapped rosters. But that means remaining at 4.5 scholarships. And it's worth noting this is at a university level, not sport by sport. So Ohio State, UCLA, USC, etc will definitely be capped at 18 athletes. Somebody like Saint Francis will almost certainly not opt in to revenue sharing, so their roster would remain uncapped, but they'd keep the 4.5 scholarship cap. then will the Big West Conference develop a schollie limit for their schools? also have to wonder if BYU, UCLA, USC, Ohio State, Penn State, Stanford try to unify in presumably a Big 10 sponsored sport with affiliate members I would speculate they might also invite Harvard and Princeton if they did so The proposed settlement document did seem to leave a lot of room for Conferences and universities to further define limits on roster size and other things so that might happen. It will come down to how much the universities want to spend on the sport. This new development can give a lot of freedom to make changes as far as I can tell. |
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Post by wilbur on Jul 26, 2024 22:22:48 GMT -5
To me, that reads that schools that opt out of revenue sharing and simply follow the old NCAA rules will be allowed to have uncapped rosters. But that means remaining at 4.5 scholarships. And it's worth noting this is at a university level, not sport by sport. So Ohio State, UCLA, USC, etc will definitely be capped at 18 athletes. Somebody like Saint Francis will almost certainly not opt in to revenue sharing, so their roster would remain uncapped, but they'd keep the 4.5 scholarship cap. then will the Big West Conference develop a schollie limit for their schools? also have to wonder if BYU, UCLA, USC, Ohio State, Penn State, Stanford try to unify in presumably a Big 10 sponsored sport with affiliate members I would speculate they might also invite Harvard and Princeton if they did so no way they would do that conference due to travel. |
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Post by vball1814 on Jul 27, 2024 16:19:23 GMT -5
I don't think the extra travel would be significant. UCLA actually played all 5 of their opponents in this suggested conference two times in 2024. USC played all 5 opponents twice except Penn State which they played once.
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Post by couchanalyst on Jul 27, 2024 17:34:48 GMT -5
Scholarships are not a measurement anymore. It is solely roster size. 18 players on a volleyball roster. That’s it. Doesn’t matter if they get a scholarship or not. Ok, but is the opting in to the new system still a thing? Say LIU a D1 school decides that they want to run a 20 man roster, they don't have the funding to go beyond the current 4.5 scholarships. Others here are saying that they could choose to stay on the "old program" if you will at the school's choosing. Will they have that option? |
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Post by stevehorn on Jul 27, 2024 18:07:27 GMT -5
Scholarships are not a measurement anymore. It is solely roster size. 18 players on a volleyball roster. That’s it. Doesn’t matter if they get a scholarship or not. Ok, but is the opting in to the new system still a thing? Say LIU a D1 school decides that they want to run a 20 man roster, they don't have the funding to go beyond the current 4.5 scholarships. Others here are saying that they could choose to stay on the "old program" if you will at the school's choosing. Will they have that option? It is the NCAA and the P5 conferences/schools that are the defendants in this case. It is my understanding that the non-P5 schools are not involved in the case and will not be bound by any settlement or ruling in this case except for the opt-in provision. If a school wishes to provide revenue sharing to its athletes, it can opt-in to the settlement and will be subject to everything in it. So if a non-P5 school opts in, they will be subject to the new roster limit in all sports. So in your example question, LIU would not be subject to the new roster limit if they don't opt-in. The assumption is that the schools that don't opt-in will be subject to the current NCAA rules and limitations so in men's volleyball, LIU would have no roster limit but still have a 4.5 scholarship limit. |
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Post by midwestvball1 on Jul 27, 2024 19:17:58 GMT -5
Good luck to the Have-Nots with recruiting players, keeping players with the transfer portal, competing at a high level, or winning a National Championship. Not impossible, but what an uphill battle for those coaches and players. In a small Olympic NON-REVENUE sport called men's volleyball.
Recruits if given the opportunity: Go to the D1 school with 4.5 scholarships (no roster limits) / D2 school in same situation since who knows what their legislation is moving forward. OR the BEST CHOICE a D1 school with up to 18 scholarships and a roster limit. Coaches get ready for these questions from high school athletes or transfers. STUDENT-athletes get ready to basically be on the chopping block if you don't perform up to standards. Who needs development or investment in players. Just cut the kid and get another. Especially with 18 players.
Off topic, but good luck with player numbers in practice with injuries. Schools might need to hire students to be student managers to be 'practice players'. Wink. Wink.
The Have-nots will get the left over International Players, too. And queue the influx of full-ride international players in the P5 schools. Cost is usually the major factor for those students. No longer a problem now. Everybody gets a scholarship.
Don't get me wrong more scholarships is a positive step forward. However, this is going to be a mess and uneven playing field in a sport with low numbers at both the D1 and D2 level.
I feel for the class of 2025 and beyond. It will be like 0.00000000001% players coming out of high school play D1 or D2.
Basically, the old system if it was good or bad is dying. For the mainstream sports in America; football, basketball, soccer, baseball, softball and WOMEN'S volleyball. BRAVO! I just see this stalling growth of men's volleyball or financially ending programs that are non-P5 schools. I mean if I was an AD and looked at the budgets and numbers why keep lower tier/non-revenue sports. Cut those opportunities. Keep the same head count by giving mainstream sports more opportunities and making more money.
I would love to see Rob get a discussion with actual P5 volleyball coaches and non-P5 coaches once the initial dust settles. We heard a little bit of rumblings in some of the end of season podcasts, but would love a P5 coach opinion in the future.
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Post by midwestvball1 on Jul 27, 2024 20:54:54 GMT -5
Here are the 2024 season roster #s for D1 schools:
Ball State - 23
BYU - 20
CSUN - 20
FDU - 18
GMU - 23
GCU - 21
Harvard - 15
Hawaii - 20
Lindenwood - 24
LBSU - 31
LIU - 22
Loyola - 26
Merrimack - 17
NJIT - 17
OSU - 20
PSU - 19
Pepperdine - 21
Princeton - 19
PFW - 18
Queens - 24
Sacred Heart - 24
Saint Francis - 26
Stanford - 19
UCI - 19
UCLA - 24
UCSB - 20
UCSD - 18
USC - 17
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Post by dodger on Jul 27, 2024 22:39:42 GMT -5
Here are the 2024 season roster #s for D1 schools: Ball State - 23 BYU - 20 CSUN - 20 FDU - 18 GMU - 23 GCU - 21 Harvard - 15 Hawaii - 20 Lindenwood - 24 LBSU - 31 LIU - 22 Loyola - 26 Merrimack - 17 NJIT - 17 OSU - 20 PSU - 19 Pepperdine - 21 Princeton - 19 PFW - 18 Queens - Sacred Heart - 24 Saint Francis - 26 Stanford - 19 UCI - 19 UCLA - 24 UCSB - 20 UCSD - 18 USC - 17 Opt. in =‘s - profit sharing for all athletes and roster limits with no limit up to roster limit for scholarships Opt out =‘s tour old scholarship limit and unlimited rosters and no profit sharing: not by sport: by instituition! |
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Post by volleycoach2310 on Jul 29, 2024 1:24:46 GMT -5
I think a lot of programs will look to “endorse” a club team that is closely linked with their intercollegiate program. Lots of college program want bigger rosters on the men’s side because lots of guys find the sport and develop later compared to the women’s side. that would be awesome if it happens. Basically a JV team playing against other schools JV teams. seems like a better system than current. But how to deal with redshirts or any athlete that maybe on scholarship or had preferred admission participating on this team and counted outside the 18 rostered spots? Most athletes won’t want that…they want to be on an actual college team. |
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Post by wilbur on Jul 29, 2024 10:18:28 GMT -5
Here are the 2024 season roster #s for D1 schools: Ball State - 23 BYU - 20 CSUN - 20 FDU - 18 GMU - 23 GCU - 21 Harvard - 15 Hawaii - 20 Lindenwood - 24 LBSU - 31 LIU - 22 Loyola - 26 Merrimack - 17 NJIT - 17 OSU - 20 PSU - 19 Pepperdine - 21 Princeton - 19 PFW - 18 Queens - Sacred Heart - 24 Saint Francis - 26 Stanford - 19 UCI - 19 UCLA - 24 UCSB - 20 UCSD - 18 USC - 17 What is the average women's roster size? Is the same thing happening to baseball? I think a roster with redshirts of 21 or 22 is very reasonable for Men's VB. The lawsuit's goal wasn't to reduce opportunities in mens Olympic sports by 15%, this is a proposed settlement, will the Men's VB coaches at the power school have enough influence to sway the final outcome? |
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Post by stevehorn on Jul 29, 2024 13:03:05 GMT -5
Here are the 2024 season roster #s for D1 schools: Ball State - 23 BYU - 20 CSUN - 20 FDU - 18 GMU - 23 GCU - 21 Harvard - 15 Hawaii - 20 Lindenwood - 24 LBSU - 31 LIU - 22 Loyola - 26 Merrimack - 17 NJIT - 17 OSU - 20 PSU - 19 Pepperdine - 21 Princeton - 19 PFW - 18 Queens - Sacred Heart - 24 Saint Francis - 26 Stanford - 19 UCI - 19 UCLA - 24 UCSB - 20 UCSD - 18 USC - 17 What is the average women's roster size? Is the same thing happening to baseball? I think a roster with redshirts of 21 or 22 is very reasonable for Men's VB. The lawsuit's goal wasn't to reduce opportunities in mens Olympic sports by 15%, this is a proposed settlement, will the Men's VB coaches at the power school have enough influence to sway the final outcome? It was posted that the average roster size of women's teams is about 18. Every sport has a roster limit in the proposed settlement. I would confidently say that the men's VB coaches at P5 schools have no influence to sway the number. Besides I suspect they would rather have a roster limit of 18 with the possibility of each player being on scholarship rather than unlimited rosters with only 4.5 scholarships. |
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Post by midwestvball1 on Jul 29, 2024 15:50:08 GMT -5
Based on 2024 rosters, 87 players across the D1 teams alone would be cut under the new rule. 6 players could be added to teams below.
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