|
Post by midwestfan on Mar 20, 2004 11:31:45 GMT -5
RedYukon:
I don't know if you are new to this board or what, but BYU's age issue (as well as Lewis') has been an ongoing debate, conversation for awhile. It's not because they are doing "so well."
|
|
|
Post by lalalaluuuke on Mar 20, 2004 13:46:29 GMT -5
MIDWESTFAN: I don't care. They get it when they are successful the most. Just like JR Martins last year. It never was a hot topic until they started winning games. If BYU was in Pacific's shoes no one would be talking about it. Age or not, they are playing within the rules. If you don't like it, send your team away for 2 years to get some age.
|
|
|
Post by midwestfan on Mar 20, 2004 15:03:50 GMT -5
Hey, I wasn't the one saying anything!!! I just wanted to point out that it has long been discussed. Same thing with Lewis, believe me, it was discussed long before last year (it's kinda hard not to notice a 24 yr. old freshman). My personal point of view, since you asked ;D, is that I don't like it. I don't think it's fair but it is part of the NCAA rules. I think all schools that play for the D1 championship should follow the same rules. When I become head of the NCAA volleyball ;D , I'll make sure that happens but until then, there is nothing that I can do about it and to b**** and moan about it serves no purpose. However, occasionally making fun of it does serve a purpose! ;D
|
|
|
Post by midwestfan on Mar 20, 2004 15:05:12 GMT -5
I only have 14 more posts to go and I'll be a junior!!
Oh, make that 13 ;D
|
|
|
Post by lalalaluuuke on Mar 20, 2004 15:18:53 GMT -5
Right, I hear you. While it doesn't seem "fair" to allow older players, I think the NCAA realizes that this is an opportunity to raise the level of play in the sport and give foreign players an opportunity to get a good education. Everyone is given the same recruiting opportunities, schools need to develop international recruiting pipelines. They just need to be sure these players pass all of the NCAA's eligibility tests. BYU is a school with a large international student population. They offer opportunities at many different campuses and extensions all over the world. So naturally they will also attract international athletes as well. This has been a great recruiting tool for them. With Batista being another 24 yr. old freshman I know we will continue to hear the gripes about age. I think that if schools want to even the playing field with the age they should start recruiting outside of the states. No one is stopping them. Congrats on the Junior status, I just hit Sophomore. When you do become head of the NCAA don't forget the little guys. We'll give you plenty of advice--good or not. ;D
|
|
|
Post by midwestfan on Mar 20, 2004 15:23:00 GMT -5
Thanks! Now I only need 12!
Sounds like we've come to a "agree to disagree" point!
|
|
|
Post by cougarize on Mar 20, 2004 16:30:37 GMT -5
BYU is a school with a large international student population. Actually byu's international student population is not as big as you may think. No one will openly say this at the school, but its capped somewhere in the low 2000's.
|
|
|
Post by Beachy on Mar 20, 2004 16:43:50 GMT -5
Big Red.....just to be sure I have read your post correctly....you think that the NCAA allows the older and/or foreign players because it is an opportunity to raise the level of the in the sport and gives foreign athletes an opportunity to get a good education. ? If this is what you meant then....I must say the NCAA doesn't really care whether foreign athletes get a good education. The NCAA doesn't really care about raising the level of play in the sport of volleyball. When did you start assuming the NCAA was trying to benefit these players? I believe the NCAA acts in its own best interests. Does anyone know their mission statement or purpose of existence? Also , I must agree with Mid-fan....many people on this board and in real life care very much about the older athletes at ALL schools (not just BYU) and have cared for several years. It has been a topic on this board way back in the olden days when it was the 24/7 board....before the Lewis issues, before BYU was good, etc. etc. As I do know this rule allows these players to play, you will find that I frown upon people calling BYU et al cheaters because of this particular rule. They are certainly within the rules. Just don't blame the NCAA for trying "help" those foreign athletes with their education.
|
|
|
Post by cougarize on Mar 20, 2004 17:04:17 GMT -5
Cougar: Puullleeeaaaase! You still haven't proven anything. If Peterson honestly believes that he has a second team that is better than most first teams, then play them against the likes of GM, Lewis and others. Don't just play individuals here and there, play the whole group. I don't fault you for being an enthusiastic supporter of your team, however, I still contend that unless BYU plays their second team, you cannot prove (other than in words) that they are that superior. Look, I'm not saying that they aren't very, very good, I am sure they are and what you are saying might possibly be true but until you can actually prove it, maybe you shouldn't be saying it. You (and Peterson) are entitled to your opinion(s). Ok, I've been debating about saying this and maybe shouldn't but here goes. I also think that when something like that is said it is really disrespecting a lot of very good programs that work really hard to try and field competitive teams. I could be wrong but I don't think you mean to do that. I'm glad that your team does really well (don't forget however, the times BYU has been at the low end of the volleyball food chain ;D ) but don't discount the lesser programs. All of the programs including NAIA, D3 and Community Colleges have something special to offer to men's volleyball. I am officially off my soap box! The only reason why you don't think I've proven anything is because you're not reading and understanding. Backup setter Rob Nielson NEVER started a collegiate match. Then he goes INTO Ohio State with two new middles and leads BYU to a tidy sweep. If you were to rank positions on the court by importance, setter would be at the top. How was he prepared to make the seamless transition into the starting lineup? Because he plays against the No.1 team in the nation in practice everyday. Now I've said this before, but you obviously don't know BYU. BYU is really in an enviable position that few schools (Hawaii and UCLA) would count that can stockpile talent. There are a number of reasons for this: how good the program and coaching is, school environment, level of competition, facilities, price, etc. With scholarships a premium in men's volleyball, there really can't be an even talent distribution like in women's volleyball. Thus players are forced to take into account some of the aforementioned variables. What BYU has going for it that the other schools don't is price. I've posted this before, but tuition at BYU is only several thousand dollars a year for a non-LDS student. That is tuition to go to a top private university. Look at the BYU roster, there are 27 players on the roster. Some of these guys will obviously never see the light of day, but there is a wealth of talent there. You just have to come out to one practice and see. Heck, you'd even be impressed with the 6-on-6 scrimmages the team has when the regulars are on the road. BYU is extremely blessed and too much so. The point that I'll state with all of this is not, "Na, na, na, na, na, na, we're better than you," but the fact that women's volleyball is alot more interesting because talent is everywhere. Sure I'm thrilled that we're winning and dominating in areas, but I'd like to see some balance sometimes. As far as disrespect to other programs, I respect them. But I realize, as should you, that there is an imbalance of talent here. There was a time when BYU wasn't that good, but that was when it transitioned into DI volleyball a few years back. BYU will not see years like that again. Just think for a moment, when was the last year that BYU had an off year? When is the next time BYU will have an off year? Now apply those questions to any of your favorite non-MPSF teams. You can continue to dispute the fact that until tom peterson plays the full second team, we'll never know, blah, blah. Since a disappointing loss to Northridge in January, the team has, unlike any other team in the country, been immune to a bad loss. Do you think the team the starters go up against everyday in practice has something to do with that? The bottomline is, BYU's second teamers have proven themselves when called upon this year, and BYU has and will continue to develop players and seamlessly transition them into the starting lineup. Finally no disrespect MWF, but it's the unfortunate truth of the current state of men's volleyball. Year after year the BYU, Hawaii and UCLA fans can crow on and on, but the Lewis fans have to stomach a difficult year after an unbelievable one.
|
|
|
Post by NobodySpecial on Mar 20, 2004 17:09:36 GMT -5
Hey, I wasn't the one saying anything!!! I just wanted to point out that it has long been discussed. Same thing with Lewis, believe me, it was discussed long before last year (it's kinda hard not to notice a 24 yr. old freshman). My personal point of view, since you asked ;D, is that I don't like it. I don't think it's fair but it is part of the NCAA rules. I think all schools that play for the D1 championship should follow the same rules. When I become head of the NCAA volleyball ;D , I'll make sure that happens but until then, there is nothing that I can do about it and to b**** and moan about it serves no purpose. However, occasionally making fun of it does serve a purpose! ;D Just as a point of contention to your argument above, there is no such thing as a NCAA Division I men's volleyball championship. It is a NCAA National Collegiate Championship without regard to division. Therefore, each division's own rules supercedes. It just so happens that, obviously, the top teams are Division I except for a few exceptions (i.e. Lewis, IPFW a couple years ago before the school switched to Division I).
|
|
|
Post by vb on Mar 20, 2004 17:31:11 GMT -5
I hate BYU!!
I can't even read about IPFW skidding without them spilling over to the thread!
|
|
|
Post by lalalaluuuke on Mar 20, 2004 17:57:43 GMT -5
Actually byu's international student population is not as big as you may think. No one will openly say this at the school, but its capped somewhere in the low 2000's. Cougar-Are you on the admissions board? Like I said before, the int'l. student population is very big, I know, I graduated from there last year. At every major speaking function the president (Bateman) talked about how they pride themselves in their large int'l student enrollment. I know, I heard it many times. Beachy--Are on the NCAA payroll? Is that your opinion on the NCAA's views? If you will read my post, I said "I think." That infers that it is my opinion. You believe that the NCAA acts in its own best interests--great, good opinion. They will probably always act in their best interest to one degree or another.
|
|
|
Post by VBJunkie on Mar 20, 2004 18:05:04 GMT -5
RedYukon... you honeslty need to lighten up...
What were you? Pre-Law, why does everything needs to be an arguement for you?
Stop making it so personal
|
|
|
Post by lalalaluuuke on Mar 20, 2004 18:44:16 GMT -5
To all who wonder--why do I want proof? Because when someone tells you that your opinion is wrong, that is wrong. If they want to sway your opinion they ought to have proof. If you want me to lighten up--then quit telling me my opinion and what I think is wrong. I am defending myself. As long as people keep calling me out I will continue to defend my views and asking for proof.
|
|
|
Post by midwestfan on Mar 20, 2004 20:43:29 GMT -5
Couger:
Envision with me if you will, a corn field located, oh I don't know somewhere in Hoosier land. You are in a plane flying over and somewhere there in the middle of the corn field, you spot an object. Low and behold it's a person, me! There I am standing in the middle of the corn field and I'm waving something in my right hand. It's a white flag and although you can't hear me, I am also yelling "UNCLE."
|
|