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Post by gobears on Jun 28, 2009 13:46:18 GMT -5
Gary Colberg of Davis started men's Nationals 25 years ago. When it got bigger and bigger for one person to handle the arrangements...and the competition stuff...he made an arrangement? contract? with NIRSA that he would continue running the competition/venue/court stuff and NIRSA would handle the hotel/city stuff. As the tourney got bigger, the ability to handle it grew beyond the capabilities and interest of any one campus....for years we went to various college campuses ....which lots of folks liked....but the sheer size now ....let alone the last 10 years, couldn't be handled on any college campus. Gary retired this year....contract year to year? certain # of years? I don't know. But that arrangement is done.
The current folks who formed NCVF the past few years, the area commissioners mostly of the various leagues around the States, felt they could possibly do it differently, less money?, who knows? None of them had any affiliation with NIRSA.
NIRSA folks are the same this year...and they have chosen a Convention Center again.
I don't know if the NCVF group and USA vb will get a contract signed for 2010. I hear stuff 4th hand only....but check with your league commissioner to see what they know as the fall comes around.
Hopefully stuff will be definitive by then. And it would be nice for only ONE tourney to be scheduled.
say your prayers...
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Post by daplaya on Jul 1, 2009 15:50:20 GMT -5
You may want to check with the commissioner of your league for eligibility questions because the NCVF is adopting eligibility rules for season play as well as the national tournament.
A player on our team also told me that they are also going to run a national tournament for NCVF teams separate from NIRSA this year.
Since we compete in an NCVF conference, we will likely go to the national championship that they put on. Has anyone heard more about this?
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Post by planetasia01 on Jul 1, 2009 16:25:16 GMT -5
Oh great... 2 different national championships that'll make things even more confusing...
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Post by gobears on Jul 2, 2009 15:12:24 GMT -5
Not sure if ANY conference voted to be NCVF or NIRSA or what. Just because the commissioner of a conference decided to join NCVF as an individual, does that make the conference an NCVF conference? Or can a commissioner decide that the conference they were in charge of, last year, is mandated to be an NCVF conference...
Teams could care less about the legality and organizational stuff.
They will just want to sign up for a nationals tourney.
Not sure that any commissioner can mandate which tourney, if there turns out to be two, a college goes to.
And as far as mandating if a local conference only belongs to NCVF or NIRSA? I don't think so.
Teams will schedule who they want....and it would be surprising if a team was told they couldn't play another team during the season. If a conference mandates who 'belongs' and who does not....hmmm...that would be counterproductive to the growth of the sport as well.
Hopefully the commissioners of each area will meet with, conference with, the coaches or better yet the team presidents as these are clubs who often mostly run themselves, in the fall and figure out the process with the least amount of fool around and the least amt of regulation.
I can see league and nationals player eligibility issues being discussed...easier to have the same for both...but a good number of teams may not go to Nationals, and likely have a good argument for a bit looser regs for player eligibility.
This is going to get messier I predict. Sad.
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Post by gobears on Jul 2, 2009 15:15:48 GMT -5
per the website, March 19th and 20th.
For your calendar . Let's save the discussions about tourney management for later.
More important stuff to sort out.
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Post by westcoastplaya on Jul 2, 2009 15:39:56 GMT -5
I did some follow up. The NCV idiots have never run the NIRSA Championships. The Tournament Director has always been a NIRSA employee (Belz, Callender, Todovich). The NCV has assisted in seeding the teams (BFD!). So you have an unknown association, NCV and quality association, NIRSA who will be at the Dallas Conv. Center on April 1-3, 2010 (not a college campus) The national title has increased in numbers every year, so what's the problem with the NCV? Two championships will mean there will be no real champion. Thanks a lot NCV!!!
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Post by slamjam on Jul 3, 2009 0:02:31 GMT -5
If USAV can take over Club Volleyball, it will take off past anyone's expectations. The only thing holding down the Club Sport is the fact it is a part of NIRSA, which is short for National Intramural-Recreational Sports Association. Now how many people are going to give a crap about winning a national championship at a self proclaimed intramural tourney? After talking to several people, I have come to the conclusion that club volleyball could potentially become a bigger sport than any of the School Sponsored Volleyball teams. Think about it, hardly any rules, they don't take very much money to run, no TITLE-9 (which means no taking away scholorships from other teams) and many more reasons. The only thing holding it back? Nirsa.
Just a tid bit: did anyone follow the tourney this year? How bad were the rankings? Bad. Fresno State forfeited first match on first day because Nirsa couldn't figure out that they got misinformation about their check in. And finally, did anyone see the medals that Nirsa gave out? I give out the same medals to my 3 year olds who pass a swim lesson. Which means their economical worth would be about a $1. Now do the Math 200+ teams at an entry fee of $1200. Where is all the money going?
I'm ready to see someone else take the command of club volleyball, it is a sport that is ready to take off....
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Post by scmb19 on Jul 3, 2009 2:11:31 GMT -5
In the NCCVL (Northern Cal league) we have the privilege to have Gary Colberg come to our annual planning meeting each fall. The discussion about moving the Club Volleyball national champs has been on the table for a few years now. The contract with NIRSA ran until this past year, and is now over. The main reason for the split is that NIRSA is looking to cut back the number of teams that go to nationals and the lack of knowledge of where the money goes.
From my understanding, NIRSA wants to divide the champs into regionals, so you have to qualify to attend nationals, thus drastically cutting back the number of teams at the national tournament. Second, Gary said that NIRSA wouldn't show the NCVF where the money teams pay to attend nationals was going. They were concerned the money was going to fund other club sport championships and pay for a majority of the NIRSA staff, and not into the tournament itself.
As far as what was said about the League Commissioners coming together without Gary and making this decision to leave NIRSA, I believe this is false. Gary seemed adamant that he was also very unhappy with NIRSA and he helped search for and create the contract with USAV for this year's and future club volleyball championships under USAV. He wants this to happen. He seems to just be taking a step back and instead of running everything, will be more of an advisor people can bounce ideas off of. He isn't completely abandoning club volleyball.
I feel that even with NIRSA attempting to hold another national championship, the future of collegiate club volleyball is with USAV. The room for growth is endless. The only challenge will be this year to get the message out that the true national championship is the one run by USAV, NOT NIRSA.
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Post by pavolleyballer on Jul 3, 2009 11:59:09 GMT -5
In my opinion, the goal should not only be holding a great national tournament, but improving club volleyball and furthering the sport. You want the people running things to legitimately care about the sport and the players, and to be in it because they love it. From everything I've read or heard, the NCVF seems to be exactly that.
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Post by gobears on Jul 3, 2009 13:40:37 GMT -5
The concern about making National Tourney smaller, and where all the money is going, is a legitimate one.
Until USA vb announces where their Nationals are going to be held and the dates and details, they are an unknown. In terms of 'really' taking off, I am not sure what that means.
There are maybe 350 or so men's college club teams across the US. Don't know how many women's. More might come to Nationals if tourney fee was cheaper....but there is no way to make plane fares and hotels much cheaper....at least enough to make it REALLY signi less expensive. The 200 men's club teams that don't go to Nationals likely don't go due to minimum organization at the school on the team itself and signi cost issues. Cutting costs for nationals by 50% isn't possible. Perhaps having regional qualifier to nationals, would allow more teams in the mix at the Regional level due to cheaper costs. A new inexperienced team not into the large fundraising needed to get a team to Nationals after the regular season, is the case on many campuses, I think.
If a contract HAS been signed with USA vb, tourney date and venue needs to get out there sooner rather than later imo.
Plenty of discussion needed by commissioners and team presidents and coaches. These people are available over the summer for conference calls, emails with facts, ....etc.
Perhaps it will all come together in October...but...
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Post by bredsox61 on Jul 3, 2009 14:05:47 GMT -5
I did some follow up. The NCV idiots have never run the NIRSA Championships. The Tournament Director has always been a NIRSA employee (Belz, Callender, Todovich). The NCV has assisted in seeding the teams (BFD!). So you have an unknown association, NCV and quality association, NIRSA who will be at the Dallas Conv. Center on April 1-3, 2010 (not a college campus) The national title has increased in numbers every year, so what's the problem with the NCV? Two championships will mean there will be no real champion. Thanks a lot NCV!!! The NCVF is basically all of the club league commissioners, in addition to Mr. Colberg, other volunteers and numerous coaches. While they technically weren't the tournament directors in the past, they did a majority of the work to run Nationals. Determining the playing schedule, pools and seedings is a HUGE part of putting on a tournament, what besides that takes any specialized skill? The "Tournament Director", while being a NIRSA employee, had little to do with the actual volleyball part of it. NIRSA basically just handled the registration and negotiation aspects of Nationals, and in return over-charged teams and turned a profit. Has anyone at NIRSA even played volleyball before?? I think that even more important than the partnership with USAV, is the fact that the NCVF is going to be a group that organizes and assists teams year round for registration and tournaments. All NIRSA does right now is run Nationals. The big question that I think NCVF is answering is: Why shouldn't we have a national governing body that will provide services to every team, all year long?! While it may take some time and work to make the transition, we will be much, much better off in the long run under the NCVF and USAV, then we would be under an unrelated organization like NIRSA.
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Post by nccvl on Jul 3, 2009 16:20:34 GMT -5
I won't outline too much of why the NCVF is doing what we are doing... instead... here are some things for your reading pleasure. First link is regarding the NSC which is a 'for-profit' arm of 'non-profit' NIRSA. Basically, NIRSA was making too much money and their non-profit status was in danger of being lost, so NSC was formed (which is entitled to use the NIRSA and NCCS logos). Players, coaches, and campus club directors cannot make any distinction between which entity is hosting which event. www.nirsa.org/Content/NavigationMenu/AboutUs/NIRSAServicesCorporation/NIRSA_Services_Corp.htmBeyond this, here's a link to a NIRSA blog by Chad Ellsworth regarding the regional approach that has previously been mentioned on this board. It shows how NIRSA is driven by corporate sponsorship, which is not a big part of grass-roots club volleyball. nirsa-nccs.blogspot.com/
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Post by nccvl on Jul 3, 2009 16:29:11 GMT -5
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Post by nccvl on Jul 3, 2009 18:29:58 GMT -5
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Post by foopf4 on Jul 6, 2009 8:46:27 GMT -5
HMMMM touch choice. Go to a championship run by USA Volleyball that runs multiple championships as part of their mission or go to NIRSA's who makes money on the backs of students, doesn't reinvest it into volleyball and could care less about growing club volleyball.
Give me a second to decide. Really tough choice. OH yeah did I mention NIRSA wants to reduce the size of the tournament?
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