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Post by jcvball22 on Nov 7, 2011 13:37:54 GMT -5
Well, since WashU is hosting, they essentially added an extra regional in the MidWest, bringing the total to three. Last year there were two regionals in the south (Emory and CNU). This year it is the three in the MidWest, with Calvin, Concordia-Morehead and WashU hosting. It allowed them to spread out a lot of the top-ranked teams.
But in the past, they have moved teams out of regions. They used to ship a New England team to the West Coast from time to time to fill the brackets. The really sad part of this selection is 3 NESCAC teams getting into the field. There is no way there should be that much extra consideration given to the New England region teams, especially considering the mediocrity of that region in general.
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Post by ned3head on Nov 7, 2011 14:26:13 GMT -5
^^ We get the point that you don't respect the NE region. Enough with the bashing.
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Post by mnvb56 on Nov 7, 2011 14:35:00 GMT -5
The really sad part of this selection is 3 NESCAC teams getting into the field. There is no way there should be that much extra consideration given to the New England region teams, especially considering the mediocrity of that region in general. Who do you think should have been selected rather than Tufts and Middlebury? And I'm not asking belligerently--I'm just curious because I follow Wellesley and they knew they needed to beat Springfield again yesterday to get into the tournament, (since they had lost to both Tufts and Middlebury during the season) and came up just short. There seem to be several other teams that were in the latest regional rankings who didn't get in and I just wonder how a better allocation of teams could be achieved. I'm all new to this and I would bet that there are debates about the relative merits of Team A vs. Team B every year, but I find it very interesting!
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Post by nonsense on Nov 7, 2011 14:44:30 GMT -5
You have to understand that the AVCA regions and the NCAA regions are not exactly alike, thus Wash U could be in one region for the AVCA purposes and in a different one when it comes to the NCAA. As previously mentioned, to fill regions or more importantly, to limit travel as a whole, they can move teams.
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Post by noreaster on Nov 7, 2011 14:54:41 GMT -5
So Concordia and Wash are in the same region and both hosting. Somehow Carthage isn't. Calvin is hosting, which I think most expected. Eastern is hosting, just not at Eastern. The New York region looked like it was headed for Cortland, but instead its going to Clarkson so they can bring all of the Canadian border teams in, but then they need to shift some NY teams back to NE. I know we want to reduce flights but poor Richard Stockton at the southern edge of the NY region is so far from Clarkson, its easier to put them on a ferry for a couple of hours, drive through the mid-atlantic region, take the Chesapeake tunnel and get them to Christopher Newport in about 8 hours...because thats still closer than the host school in their region. If the NCAA adds language next year to reduce flights and boat rides, we'll know this is where that is coming from.
The West of the Mississippi Regional at Cal Lu is actually the most sensible region for once.
What a year.
I'll take Emory, Cortland, Boston, Washington, Calvin, Colorado, St. Thomas and Eastern to survive the weekend, but with this much regional crossover, who really knows?
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Post by psuvbfan10 on Nov 7, 2011 14:55:39 GMT -5
I'm hearing that Eastern is hosting at Neumann University - is this common to host at another facility? I don't think that the Eastern gym has the required fan space which is why they can't host at home. They also might not have enough locker room space for 8 teams on day 1.
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Post by noreaster on Nov 7, 2011 15:04:25 GMT -5
Penn State hosts Nebraska in football this weekend. I bet Juniata wouldn't have been able to get enough hotel rooms to host. Letting Eastern host at an alternate gym was apparently their best option.
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Post by jcvball22 on Nov 7, 2011 15:08:42 GMT -5
Penn State hosts Nebraska in football this weekend. I bet Juniata wouldn't have been able to get enough hotel rooms to host. Letting Eastern host at an alternate gym was apparently their best option. And this was the reason it is not in Huntingdon. Hosting in the Mid-Atlantic this year was a crap-shoot.
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Post by jcvball22 on Nov 7, 2011 15:28:43 GMT -5
The really sad part of this selection is 3 NESCAC teams getting into the field. There is no way there should be that much extra consideration given to the New England region teams, especially considering the mediocrity of that region in general. Who do you think should have been selected rather than Tufts and Middlebury? And I'm not asking belligerently--I'm just curious because I follow Wellesley and they knew they needed to beat Springfield again yesterday to get into the tournament, (since they had lost to both Tufts and Middlebury during the season) and came up just short. There seem to be several other teams that were in the latest regional rankings who didn't get in and I just wonder how a better allocation of teams could be achieved. I'm all new to this and I would bet that there are debates about the relative merits of Team A vs. Team B every year, but I find it very interesting! I think, with some reworking, there are other teams in the RPI/Pablo top grouping that could have gotten in. Case Western (it's just as far for them to go to Springfield or Neumann as it is for Mt Union and Hiram) at #27 in Pablo (a good approximation for strength of schedule and NCAA tournament entrance). Middlebury is at #41, ahead of them were Coast Guard and Case Western, both of which will be staying home. It just doesn't seem right for a disproportionate number of teams to come from one conference. Or even one region. New England got 10 teams into the tournament. From a purely objective standpoint, they are one of the weakest regions. And they got 10 bids. It's not bashing. It's true.
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Post by noreaster on Nov 7, 2011 18:58:29 GMT -5
New England has 8 AQ's and they are the largest region by number of teams. They should get more teams than the South or West.
That said, Middlebury didn't win their conference and they are not a threat to go deep in the tournament. Same is true of Case Western, Stevenson, Pac Lu, and Puget Sound. If Plymouth had defeated UMass Boston, or if Cortland lost to New Paltz then they would have needed those slots because those teams need to be in this tournament. The way things broke this year, they were not needed, so they got teams who are filler. Its a good experience for some kids to go and good for them, but the teams that didn't get in were not robbed of anything they had earned.
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Post by tmb on Nov 8, 2011 4:28:43 GMT -5
...Middlebury didn't win their conference and they are not a threat to go deep in the tournament... umm...I realize I am a little biased but they played the majority of their year without their top OH and then the S went down. I think they are 50/50 with Cortland to be going to Wash U. in a week.
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Post by tmb on Nov 8, 2011 4:34:29 GMT -5
You have to understand that the AVCA regions and the NCAA regions are not exactly alike, thus Wash U could be in one region for the AVCA purposes and in a different one when it comes to the NCAA. As previously mentioned, to fill regions or more importantly, to limit travel as a whole, they can move teams. There are no AVCA regions as far as I know. It is a national poll of coaches opinions. The NCAA has sports regions (West, MidWest, MidAtlantic, Central, Great Lakes, South, New York, New England). Then, each of these regions are geographically linked to one other region so those matches would count as in region for both opponents. I think West and South are.
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Post by tmb on Nov 8, 2011 4:47:34 GMT -5
Who do you think should have been selected rather than Tufts and Middlebury? And I'm not asking belligerently--I'm just curious because I follow Wellesley and they knew they needed to beat Springfield again yesterday to get into the tournament, (since they had lost to both Tufts and Middlebury during the season) and came up just short. There seem to be several other teams that were in the latest regional rankings who didn't get in and I just wonder how a better allocation of teams could be achieved. I'm all new to this and I would bet that there are debates about the relative merits of Team A vs. Team B every year, but I find it very interesting! I think, with some reworking, there are other teams in the RPI/Pablo top grouping that could have gotten in. Case Western (it's just as far for them to go to Springfield or Neumann as it is for Mt Union and Hiram) at #27 in Pablo (a good approximation for strength of schedule and NCAA tournament entrance). Middlebury is at #41, ahead of them were Coast Guard and Case Western, both of which will be staying home. It just doesn't seem right for a disproportionate number of teams to come from one conference. Or even one region. New England got 10 teams into the tournament. From a purely objective standpoint, they are one of the weakest regions. And they got 10 bids. It's not bashing. It's true. I think it is an interesting time of year too! Not quite hoops action fill out your bracket but d3 is growing in interest. Just based on this thread, last year it went for about 2 pages and disappeared early. This year it stuck around all year. Thinking off the top of my head, if I wanted to position myself for the post-season, I'd need to play the best teams possible to be forced to improve. Juniata is from a region with mostly AQ's but they travel nationally and played ranked opponents from every region to be ready. The UAA is situation unique unto itself in that all of those team travel nationally. I believe the criteria for regional rankings and the NCAA at large selection are some combination of: Win/loss % in region Strength of Schedule Roughly 2/3 opponents win % (you control who you schedule) 1/3 opponents opponents win % (you can't control who they schedule) Win/Loss vs regionally ranked opponents won/loss vs all d3 won/loss vs all ranked opponents What does a coach do with their non-conference schedule? I'd say, hit delete on the 10,000 tournament scheduling emails. Keep an eye on the 2012 tournament tab on D3VB and see who is commiting to each tournament. Find one with ranked opponents at it and go play them. Clearly there is a sentiment that some regions are stronger or weaker than others but the numbers are blind. Go play ranked opponents in ANY region and put up some #'s...maybe New York or New England will become travel destinations because they are so much weaker than the other regions that someone could go in and pick up a couple of ranked wins to build their profile . Just sayin...
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Post by d3follower on Nov 8, 2011 19:38:22 GMT -5
A Washington-St. Louis Regional Guide is up for anyone who's interested in such things. The Calvin and Moorhead Guides are delayed until tomorrow due to needing five all-conference teams.
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Post by nonsense on Nov 8, 2011 22:02:41 GMT -5
Emory has the easiest road to the final four. I will go with Emory, Wash U, Calvin and Juniata.
Not a stretch when it comes to a guess, but I think that's the way it will play out.
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