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Barboza
Apr 22, 2012 21:52:56 GMT -5
Post by Reach on Apr 22, 2012 21:52:56 GMT -5
I said that she "can," not that she does with any amount of regularity. Wait, are you saying she sometimes chooses not to pass as well as she could? thats funny when you read it that way..
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Deleted
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Barboza
Apr 22, 2012 22:38:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 22:38:34 GMT -5
Those numbers don't really tell the whole story. Barboza had most of her play time during the pan am games without the rest of the A-team. She had a huge passing responsibility with the players on the floor. Not to be forgotten that this was her first tournament coming back from injury. Most of her errors came early in the tournament against weaker opponents. By the time she got to Cuba and DR she had picked her game up drastically. Those numbers aren't from the Pan Ams. They're from the 2011 WGP and the 2011 World Cup. Look at the table titles.
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Deleted
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Barboza
Apr 22, 2012 22:40:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2012 22:40:20 GMT -5
Like, nowhere in that table does it show that Barboza passes "nails..." Her percentages are lower than everyone elses! I said that she "can," not that she does with any amount of regularity. I'm sure Foluke CAN nail a pass or two, also. You replied to that post like it supported your argument. It doesn't. Nothing in those tables supports Barboza as a strong receiver. For the record, I think that she's a good receiver, in spite of what the stats from the World Cup show.
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Barboza
Apr 22, 2012 23:12:58 GMT -5
Post by tenniscraze on Apr 22, 2012 23:12:58 GMT -5
I honestly do not think Hodge will go to the Olympics....
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midas
Sophomore
I smell gold!
Posts: 111
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Barboza
Apr 22, 2012 23:17:22 GMT -5
Post by midas on Apr 22, 2012 23:17:22 GMT -5
I said that she "can," not that she does with any amount of regularity. I'm sure Foluke CAN nail a pass or two, also. You replied to that post like it supported your argument. It doesn't. Nothing in those tables supports Barboza as a strong receiver. For the record, I think that she's a good receiver, in spite of what the stats from the World Cup show. I'm very aware the table doesnt support my earlier arguments. I do, however stand by what I said about Barboza being a strong receiver, and apparently so do you. Thank you for policing my postings. What would volleytalk do without your infinite wisdom?
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 6:38:22 GMT -5
Post by dorothymantooth on Apr 23, 2012 6:38:22 GMT -5
I honestly do not think Hodge will go to the Olympics.... Nobody questions your honesty. Now your sanity................
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 7:59:11 GMT -5
Post by USAFAN on Apr 23, 2012 7:59:11 GMT -5
Still waiting for someone to comment on Barboza's serving.......midas, perhaps you'd like to start? While I do not disregard the stats that Marsh provided, I will say that Hodge had a pretty horrible pro season with Sopot in terms of her reception. In current form, I'd definitely give Barboza the edge as far as that skill is concerned (stats from their pro league below). However, as I've reiterated a billion times, that's not what Barboza has been called upon to do so it seems pretty irrelevant to me. (perfect passing, passing efficiency) Barboza: 42.7%, 36% Hodge: 26%, 21%
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 8:12:56 GMT -5
Post by USAFAN on Apr 23, 2012 8:12:56 GMT -5
For the record, I think Barboza will be in London. I think that the following 12 people will be there: Tom, Larson, Hodge, Barboza, Scott-Arruda, Bown, Akinradewo, Berg, A. Glass, Davis, Hooker, Haneef-Park. This roster will medal in August. I think that Metcalf, K. Glass, Tamas, Spicer, and Sykora are not legitimate options for this roster when you look at what we've been sending to the WGP Final Round, WCs, and other important weekends. I think that Klineman, Lloyd, and Harmotto are extremely close to making the cut, but I do not think that Hugh is going to inject three new players onto the travel rosters so late in the quadrennial. He's made it very clear that his philosophy isn't to take the 12 best athletes, or the best individual at her position - he will take the 12 players that make the best TEAM on and off the court. He knows 100% what he's going to get out of the players I listed above. He doesn't know definitively how Klineman, Lloyd, or Harmotto is going to react and handle a long tournament like the Olympics. I think he'll go for what he knows best. As per the Olympic roster, I'm not so sure I'd lump Metcalf in with Sykora, Spicer, and Tamas. She was the best scorer of the Azeri League, led the team to a runner-up finish overall, and won the Challenge Cup as the primary offensive outlet for her team. Haneef-Park's team had much more star power and they never were able to produce. Haneef-Park was up and down offensively and once Kenny Moreno transferred in, Haneef-Park moved over to the left. I think the battle for the backup OPP position is still very much a coin toss. Harmotto is no where near the unknown that you're making her out to be. Especially in comparison to Lloyd and Klineman. I don't know why people perceive Hugh's system to be some sort of elaborate scheme that has never been done in volleyball. If anything he relies so much on stats that the likelihood of him taking a rookie player who outperforms a veteran is more likely than with other coaches. Drawing comparisons from his roster selections with the men's team in 2008 is comparing apples to oranges. There was NO depth on the men's side and no one who could come in and make an impact. I'll concede Klineman and Lloyd have such little experience on the pro and international scene that I can understand why someone would be hesistant but Harmotto is far beyond that.
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 8:37:12 GMT -5
Post by dorothymantooth on Apr 23, 2012 8:37:12 GMT -5
For the record, I think Barboza will be in London. I think that the following 12 people will be there: Tom, Larson, Hodge, Barboza, Scott-Arruda, Bown, Akinradewo, Berg, A. Glass, Davis, Hooker, Haneef-Park. This roster will medal in August. I think that Metcalf, K. Glass, Tamas, Spicer, and Sykora are not legitimate options for this roster when you look at what we've been sending to the WGP Final Round, WCs, and other important weekends. I think that Klineman, Lloyd, and Harmotto are extremely close to making the cut, but I do not think that Hugh is going to inject three new players onto the travel rosters so late in the quadrennial. He's made it very clear that his philosophy isn't to take the 12 best athletes, or the best individual at her position - he will take the 12 players that make the best TEAM on and off the court. He knows 100% what he's going to get out of the players I listed above. He doesn't know definitively how Klineman, Lloyd, or Harmotto is going to react and handle a long tournament like the Olympics. I think he'll go for what he knows best. As per the Olympic roster, I'm not so sure I'd lump Metcalf in with Sykora, Spicer, and Tamas. She was the best scorer of the Azeri League, led the team to a runner-up finish overall, and won the Challenge Cup as the primary offensive outlet for her team. Haneef-Park's team had much more star power and they never were able to produce. Haneef-Park was up and down offensively and once Kenny Moreno transferred in, Haneef-Park moved over to the left. I think the battle for the backup OPP position is still very much a coin toss. Harmotto is no where near the unknown that you're making her out to be. Especially in comparison to Lloyd and Klineman. I don't know why people perceive Hugh's system to be some sort of elaborate scheme that has never been done in volleyball. If anything he relies so much on stats that the likelihood of him taking a rookie player who outperforms a veteran is more likely than with other coaches. Drawing comparisons from his roster selections with the men's team in 2008 is comparing apples to oranges. There was NO depth on the men's side and no one who could come in and make an impact. I'll concede Klineman and Lloyd have such little experience on the pro and international scene that I can understand why someone would be hesistant but Harmotto is far beyond that. Agreed, Harmotto has played three pro seasons, one for Lang Ping in China, and two in Italy, she has also played in a fair share of USA matches. While she isnt Dani Scott, she isnt Lloyd, Klineman or even Hodge for that matter. Far from a rookie, or inexperienced.
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 9:56:37 GMT -5
Post by Reach on Apr 23, 2012 9:56:37 GMT -5
Everyone keeps assuming that if Larson or Tom are having a terrible match, especially passing, that Hodge will be the first to go in. I'm not so sure. Hooker is going to continue to get a large portion of the sets and I doubt Hodge would see too many sets if the passing is bad. While being the best in system hitter, she's the worst out of system hitter of the four. That is why you need a player like Barboza. She won't be relied on for offense. She needs to get in there and pass and defend so the middles and Hooker can get it done. There are just no other athlets in the gym with the skill set needed for this team. There are plenty of hitters who are better than Barboza, but lack the other skills needed for this team.
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 10:15:06 GMT -5
Post by USAFAN on Apr 23, 2012 10:15:06 GMT -5
Everyone keeps assuming that if Larson or Tom are having a terrible match, especially passing, that Hodge will be the first to go in. I'm not so sure. Hooker is going to continue to get a large portion of the sets and I doubt Hodge would see too many sets if the passing is bad. While being the best in system hitter, she's the worst out of system hitter of the four. That is why you need a player like Barboza. She won't be relied on for offense. She needs to get in there and pass and defend so the middles and Hooker can get it done. There are just no other athlets in the gym with the skill set needed for this team. There are plenty of hitters who are better than Barboza, but lack the other skills needed for this team. Why would we assume otherwise? In both 2010 and 2011 Hodge was the first one off of the bench. I cannot recall a single situation that Barboza came off of the bench to play all-around. I'd also strongly disagree that Hodge is worse out of system than Barboza. Sopot had horrendous passing and Hodge hit a lot of balls out of system and if there was any improvement in her game that is definitely where she made strides. Barboza's passing may be better than Hodge but she's still not elite. If passing is a priority we'd be better off taking a defensive specialist. If the hypothetical situation you're suggesting were reality wouldn't you assume that Barboza would have made the 2008 squad because her overall skills were better than Nnamani and Kim Glass?
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 10:26:52 GMT -5
Post by dorothymantooth on Apr 23, 2012 10:26:52 GMT -5
If Barboza is a better passer than Hodge it isnt by a measure that would allow anyone to say "well, if one of our starters breaks down passing, CLEARLY Barboza is the better passer. Im sure I will get hammered for saying this as people wont get my point. Barboza has never been as good as the hype about her. That isnt an indictment on her, she is a fantastic player, its an indictment on the hype surrounding her as a young player that has stayed with her, her entire career. IMO if Barboza or Hodge has to play a significant role, we arent going to win gold.
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 10:44:26 GMT -5
Post by Reach on Apr 23, 2012 10:44:26 GMT -5
Everyone keeps assuming that if Larson or Tom are having a terrible match, especially passing, that Hodge will be the first to go in. I'm not so sure. Hooker is going to continue to get a large portion of the sets and I doubt Hodge would see too many sets if the passing is bad. While being the best in system hitter, she's the worst out of system hitter of the four. That is why you need a player like Barboza. She won't be relied on for offense. She needs to get in there and pass and defend so the middles and Hooker can get it done. There are just no other athlets in the gym with the skill set needed for this team. There are plenty of hitters who are better than Barboza, but lack the other skills needed for this team. Why would we assume otherwise? In both 2010 and 2011 Hodge was the first one off of the bench. I cannot recall a single situation that Barboza came off of the bench to play all-around. I'd also strongly disagree that Hodge is worse out of system than Barboza. Sopot had horrendous passing and Hodge hit a lot of balls out of system and if there was any improvement in her game that is definitely where she made strides. Barboza's passing may be better than Hodge but she's still not elite. If passing is a priority we'd be better off taking a defensive specialist. If the hypothetical situation you're suggesting were reality wouldn't you assume that Barboza would have made the 2008 squad because her overall skills were better than Nnamani and Kim Glass? You can't take a DS when one of your OH is struggling. For a few rotations in the back, but then what do you do? Hugh has been giving Hodge every opportunity to improve. She has the most potential, why wouldn't he put her in? That was then, this is now. Now you can't play around giving players with huge potential a chance. If the team needs passing and Tom/Larson are struggling, who would you put in? Honestly?? We know the make up of this team, we know who is going to get set the most and it isn't the left sides. Who is going to make the little plays that don't get put in the stat sheet better? Hodge or Barboza? ? Barboza wasn't better than Nnamani and Kim Glass in 2008. She was primarily being looked at as an opposite and was likely to be on the team until Willoughby arrived. She is better now. Nnamani isn't playing and Kim Glass hasn't seen the court in forever. She hardly played for Rabita this year.
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 10:49:05 GMT -5
Post by Reach on Apr 23, 2012 10:49:05 GMT -5
If Barboza is a better passer than Hodge it isnt by a measure that would allow anyone to say "well, if one of our starters breaks down passing, CLEARLY Barboza is the better passer. Im sure I will get hammered for saying this as people wont get my point. Barboza has never been as good as the hype about her. That isnt an indictment on her, she is a fantastic player, its an indictment on the hype surrounding her as a young player that has stayed with her, her entire career. IMO if Barboza or Hodge has to play a significant role, we arent going to win gold. I agree. My point is clear. We need someone who can come in a contribute for a game or two when one of the leftsides ball control breaks down. This player won't be relied on to carry the team offensively. They need not be spectacular, just solid. I believe Barboza fits the bill. I think if our passing is good and Hooker/middles are struggling, then maybe Hodge comes in for Larson to give us a boost in offense, if we can maintain our level of passing. Barboza and Hodge fill a role on the team and serve their purpose well. They are different and that's good for this team.
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Barboza
Apr 23, 2012 11:19:01 GMT -5
Post by dorothymantooth on Apr 23, 2012 11:19:01 GMT -5
I see killing the ball being more problematic for Larson/Tom than passing/ball control. Not sure why everyone has determined that passing would be the reason starters would need to come out. Personally I dont see Barboza as any better of a passer, or as I said, by so little you couldnt even measure it. The presumption here it seems is that the sub is going to be for passing needs, and that Barboza is better in that area. Im not sure either presumption is right.
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