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Post by vbprisoner on Nov 24, 2014 20:38:55 GMT -5
You think Karelov wins over Mosher for DPOY? I have only seen Duke play twice, and FSU play 4 times (UNC 3 times) but thought Mosher was the best overall libero in ACC for the small sampling I saw. Mosher isn't even in the top 5 for dogs in the ACC. People talk about er a ton, but she doesn't have the numbers to compete with Ece Taner, Delaney Clesen or Sasha Karelov. Karelov is unreal in the top 20 in digs with more than 5 digs a set. She may be top 5 in the country Yeah, but digs/set is also dependent on blocking and total opportunities for digs. Miss State libero is like second in nation but not even in consideration for DPOY in SEC. I thought Mosher was the best of the ones you mentioned at serve receive and rarely did I see her setters near 10 foot line on her attempts. I saw only 4 games but also saw her against FLorida, and TAMU who are good serving teams, then UNC and Nebraska. Only saw Duke twice and UNC 3, but they were not as clean on Serve receive. Again, not a large sample size and you are much more knowledgeable on ACC.
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Post by austintatious on Nov 24, 2014 20:48:08 GMT -5
It amuses me that you started arranging by RPI the week after UNC took over the conference lead. Somewhat confusing to list the 2nd place team first. Whatever, conference championships don't really matter as much as tournament performance, so if I were an FSU fan I'd be looking forward to the tourney rather than resting my hopes on the UNC-Duke game and risk having the déjà vu complaining that the other team didn't win when FSU had their chances earlier in the season. VA Tech has had a great late season surge in the RPI and should finish 11-7 but it's probably a little too late for them because playing against BC and the Cuse certainly won't raise their RPI. If it weren't for the pair of Clemson 5 setter losses I think VT would be in the tourney. However, they have provided Miami with their much needed top 50 win. It'll be interesting to see how the conference awards look, as Miami honestly deserves both POY and FOY. The top two teams won't get any player awards if that happens (assuming Karelov wins DPOY). I think COY should still go to Fisher for doing what he has with much less, but it'll probably go to either Sagula or Poole. It'll be interesting to see which middles make the first team as Burrington (she's a lock, and still has a chance at a 2nd team All-American spot), Sims, Nuenfeldt, Orchard, Tucker and even Tess Clark have extraordinary stat lines in conference. Triangle-- I'm glad you find my post amusing.. since we are coming into the end of regular season this week and majority of threads are on seeding for tourney. I sorted on RPI... sorry you don't approve of it.. Yeah, sure.
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Post by chancelucky on Nov 24, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5
It seems like you're making a better case for Taner than Mosher. UNC is leading the conference in blocks and Taner not only has a higher dig average than Mosher, but she's second in the conference in aces. They don't publicly keep passing stats, so I don't know how the two compare there. The last time I saw Mosher play, she had some issues in serve-receive, but I think that was simply an off match in that department. Clesen and Taner are very very close in aces and digs fwiw.
Karelov's very good as well and she did play for Triangle volleyball club. I don't know if that has anything to do with Triangle Volleyball championing her so fiercely.
If you had to get a ball up on an open net swing a couple feet to either side of the defender (the way most people measure liberos) I would probably lean to Mosher or Karelov. - There are, however, more facets to the libero role than that. Stabilizing serve receive may be as important as any of them. It's just that the conference doesn't track it and I don't know how the four top candidates compare that way. I think if you do look at improving the position of the ball in all facets, digging, setting, serving, serve receive, Taner compares very very well.
re: ACC player of the year. I think it's tended to go to the best player on the team winning the conference rather than the player with the best stats. Should UNC win the conference (not a given), Nelson would get some consideration, but as a right in a 6-2 she does only play half the rotations. Should FSU win or tie for the conference championship, Walch probably gets back in the picture, but she's not finishing the year on a high note unless she rallies this week with really big matches against Clemson and Miami.
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ACC 2014
Nov 24, 2014 21:15:02 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Nov 24, 2014 21:15:02 GMT -5
Mosher isn't even in the top 5 for dogs in the ACC. People talk about er a ton, but she doesn't have the numbers to compete with Ece Taner, Delaney Clesen or Sasha Karelov. Karelov is unreal in the top 20 in digs with more than 5 digs a set. She may be top 5 in the country Yeah, but digs/set is also dependent on blocking and total opportunities for digs. Miss State libero is like second in nation but not even in consideration for DPOY in SEC. I thought Mosher was the best of the ones you mentioned at serve receive and rarely did I see her setters near 10 foot line on her attempts. I saw only 4 games but also saw her against FLorida, and TAMU who are good serving teams, then UNC and Nebraska. Only saw Duke twice and UNC 3, but they were not as clean on Serve receive. Again, not a large sample size and you are much more knowledgeable on ACC. I'm only going off of conference play stats, so maye those games you saw out of conference show something different. I understand your argument but you admit yourself that you haven't seen much ACC play. Since no coach can watch more than 3 of another teams full games, says do play a huge part. For the blocking part, UNC is just as good of a blocking team statistically as FSU and Ece Taner averages an additional 0.3 digs per set and is a great server. However I have to reiterate that Karelov is almost a dig ahead of the rest of the competition, and it's not like Duke just doesn't have a block up a la MSU. I think they're at least talking about Payton Harris as a DPOY contender. And I'm not sure which Duke games you saw but Karelovs passing is excellent. There's a reason Duke has the highest hitting percentage in the conference, and it isn't the wide array of undersized hitters they use. Mosher is a great player and should be HM AA and this is the best year in recent memory for ACC Liberos but Karelov has just played out of her mind in her first year as a starting college libero.
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ACC 2014
Nov 24, 2014 21:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Nov 24, 2014 21:21:00 GMT -5
Mosher isn't even in the top 5 for dogs in the ACC. People talk about er a ton, but she doesn't have the numbers to compete with Ece Taner, Delaney Clesen or Sasha Karelov. Karelov is unreal in the top 20 in digs with more than 5 digs a set. She may be top 5 in the country Again -check your stats-- Triangle.. Mosher IS in the Top 5 in Overall Digs/set and ranks #4 in ACC stats in digs/set... you seem to focus so much on only this stat. there are hundreths of a % seperating Claseen-Tanner and Mosher... a team that leads ACC almost weekly in Blocks as FSU does i.e. vs. Duke.. the libero will not have as many opportunities to stack the stat sheet on digs...thats just the way it is.. It only makes sense that the Duke libero could have one more dig per set.....as is the case right now,, Duke is not a blocking team... Mosher is deserving of discussion.. not sure why you are so negative towards her or Walch.. you routinely bash them every chance you get---stop already... p.s. what is top 5 for Dogs anyway? LOL I honestly don't have anything against either of them, I just think they are both overrated. Earlier in the year people were talking about Walch as a 1st team all-American, but if you look at what Sklar and Leaf do for their teams it's a much bigger piece they just don't get the attention they deserve because they aren't on top 10 teams. I'm not trashing players, just using statistics to compare them to others in the ACC.
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Post by sulo on Nov 24, 2014 21:31:08 GMT -5
I vote for Taner as DPOY, but then again I'll admit I'm biased.
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Post by vbprisoner on Nov 24, 2014 21:36:36 GMT -5
Yeah, when you have to debate 3-4 for top libero then the conference has some quality players at that position. Guess you guys are no different than the other conference fans arguing over player status.....LOL
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Post by deepsouthfan on Nov 24, 2014 21:48:59 GMT -5
Who is the freshman of the year in this conference? Is Haley Templeton a lock?
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Post by chancelucky on Nov 24, 2014 21:52:52 GMT -5
Would you say Taner's been the best overall libero at UNC since Eskola :} ? though Gibson was also really good at the digging side of the job.
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ACC 2014
Nov 24, 2014 22:04:29 GMT -5
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Nov 24, 2014 22:04:29 GMT -5
Who is the freshman of the year in this conference? Is Haley Templeton a lock? Tess Clark may have a shot but I think it's Templeton.
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Post by volleyvolleyfan on Nov 24, 2014 22:47:40 GMT -5
It seems like you're making a better case for Taner than Mosher. UNC is leading the conference in blocks and Taner not only has a higher dig average than Mosher, but she's second in the conference in aces. They don't publicly keep passing stats, so I don't know how the two compare there. The last time I saw Mosher play, she had some issues in serve-receive, but I think that was simply an off match in that department. Clesen and Taner are very very close in aces and digs fwiw. Karelov's very good as well and she did play for Triangle volleyball club. I don't know if that has anything to do with Triangle Volleyball championing her so fiercely. If you had to get a ball up on an open net swing a couple feet to either side of the defender (the way most people measure liberos) I would probably lean to Mosher or Karelov. - There are, however, more facets to the libero role than that. Stabilizing serve receive may be as important as any of them. It's just that the conference doesn't track it and I don't know how the four top candidates compare that way. I think if you do look at improving the position of the ball in all facets, digging, setting, serving, serve receive, Taner compares very very well. re: ACC player of the year. I think it's tended to go to the best player on the team winning the conference rather than the player with the best stats. Should UNC win the conference (not a given), Nelson would get some consideration, but as a right in a 6-2 she does only play half the rotations. Should FSU win or tie for the conference championship, Walch probably gets back in the picture, but she's not finishing the year on a high note unless she rallies this week with really big matches against Clemson and Miami. Looking at ACC Conference only Stats..FSU actually leads the conference in Blocking..you're splitting hairs with the discussion of Tanner vs. Mosher.. yes Tanner has more aces.. which result in immediate points... but Mosher contributes to serving in her ability to go on long serving runs which keep opponents out of system thus allowing FSU to put up the big block on the outside...this is not captured in the stat sheet that is posted on ACC site.. it is true this season there are 4 top liberos in the conference.. who gets DPOY will be in the hands of the coaches..not us anyway.. so good luck to all of them..
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Post by chancelucky on Nov 24, 2014 23:11:25 GMT -5
Yes, FSU is leading the ACC in blocking for conference games only 3.11/set to UNC's 3.09/set. It doesn't account for the difference in digs/set between the 2 liberos or the even bigger difference between Mosher and Karelov. Serving runs may be interesting. Do you have a stat on it for Mosher? I'd guess all 4 liberos are pretty close and it may come down to which player's team does the best in the standings.
It would be interesting to see a serve-receive average in reverse for servers instead of passsers. It might be a more revealing number than aces/errors. If a team can keep passing stats, they can certainly track the same stats in reverse (not sure how you figure in errors)
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Post by vballdad1 on Nov 25, 2014 11:06:24 GMT -5
Why are people assuming that DPOY will be a libero? Is that traditionally who gets it because they play all rotations as opposed to MB who only play 3? I haven't looked at DPOY history but I have to think that MB's have received the award before.
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Post by volleyvolleyfan on Nov 25, 2014 11:37:10 GMT -5
Why are people assuming that DPOY will be a libero? Is that traditionally who gets it because they play all rotations as opposed to MB who only play 3? I haven't looked at DPOY history but I have to think that MB's have received the award before. Good question.. traditionally DPOY has gone to a libero in the ACC.. rationale...it is next to impossible for a libero to be named POY..which usually goes to a hitter, MB or setter.. in the past 2 years.. Sklar from Duke OH in 2013 and Neff, MB from FSU in 2012..I recall setter, Catanach from Duke also getting POY in the past Each coach in the ACC will submit a nomination from their team (if they choose too) for POY, Freshman of Year and DPOY... coaches can't vote for their own players..I guess a coach could nominate a MB for DPOY from their team but it takes all coaches voting for the final selection
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Post by volleyvolleyfan on Nov 25, 2014 11:53:29 GMT -5
I know posters from the ACC are passionate about their favorite ACC team and certain players... I know I am... But when it comes to post season I am cheering on all of our ACC teams to go deep into tournament action.. it's great for the overall conference !!!
I want to see 4-5 teams make the tournament ... The more the better for the conference overall .... What needs to happen is for teams to schedule better pre season vs. Top teams nationally... This is what Sagula and Poole do so well....
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