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Post by bradk on Jan 21, 2015 19:33:25 GMT -5
Good thing they stole/essentially shut down Wisconsin's 3 bid qualifier. It's easy to see why half of the girls side of things split to form AAU/JVDA. Fortunately for USAV, there aren't enough boys teams to do that/make it matter. They did not steal them. Half the new group that runs chicago used to be the couple who ran Wisconsin bid event. They combined their entity's in an attempt to make a huge tournament which they have. I will take a 3 day at a cc over a 2 day at some local Wisconsin suburb high school anyday.
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Post by bradk on Jan 21, 2015 19:44:35 GMT -5
congrats to HPSTL club this past weekend in open division play across all ages groups 6 top ten finishes of which 4 ended in top 4. Top performing clubs across all OPEN division age groups, top ten includes all those tied for 9th place HPSTL, 6 top ten, 4 top 4 LIVBC, 5 top ten, 2 top 4 Ultimate, 5 top ten, 2 top 4 Adversity, 4 top ten, 0 top 4 MVC, 4 top ten, 3 top 4 Correction: Ultimate had 6 top ten finishes congrats to all teams for a great weekend UPDATED HPSTL, 6 top ten, 4 top 4 Ultimate, 6 top ten, 2 top 4 LIVBC, 5 top ten, 2 top 4 Adversity, 4 top ten, 0 top 4 MVC, 4 top ten, 3 top 4 MVC had 5 14 Jon (2nd) 14 Alyssa (5th) 15 Kyle (1st) 17 Kyle (9th) 18 Jake (3rd).
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Post by midwestparent on Jan 21, 2015 20:40:35 GMT -5
I heard that MVC 18s pin hitter that is going to Stanford wasn't there on Monday. Put him on the court, and they will be one to be reckoned with. A very large, athletic team. I think WI schools have a Fall high school season, so not much time playong together at this point.
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Post by pwvb on Jan 21, 2015 21:50:14 GMT -5
Mvc Kyle 17 didn't make it to top ten. They came in 16th
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Post by vball2012 on Jan 21, 2015 22:31:37 GMT -5
Mvc Kyle 17 didn't make it to top ten. They came in 16th That's an error on AES, they lost in the round of 16 which would make them tied for 9th.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 23:11:00 GMT -5
Good thing they stole/essentially shut down Wisconsin's 3 bid qualifier. It's easy to see why half of the girls side of things split to form AAU/JVDA. Fortunately for USAV, there aren't enough boys teams to do that/make it matter. They did not steal them. Half the new group that runs chicago used to be the couple who ran Wisconsin bid event. They combined their entity's in an attempt to make a huge tournament which they have. I will take a 3 day at a cc over a 2 day at some local Wisconsin suburb high school anyday. In my opinion, if it was a well run tournament I would agree, but it simply isn't. Between the WI qualifier and the IL qualifier the Midwest qualifiers were drawing just as much talent as the single IL qualifier does. Teams from NY (LIVBC) were coming to WI and teams from PR (Coqui) were coming to the IL qualifier. In fact, Pace used to come to the IL qualifier and no longer does. The only big name that they really added was Coastal, and they didn't become a big name until after the combination of qualifiers. Besides the fact that USAV gets to make more money out of a 3 day Stay to Play tournament, there is no reason this tournament can't be completed in 2 days. These are teenage boys playing in best of 3 matches. The max amount of matches a team plays is 9 matches. Some teams played 4 total matches in a 50 hour period. Maximum is 9 matches in about 50 hours. With a convention center you could easily complete the first and part of the second pools on day 1 and then complete the second pool and playoffs on day 2 like they used to do. If I were still coaching in the Wisconsin area my biggest concern is the biggest opportunity for me to earn a bid just moved up and I have had less practice time with my club team together compared to much of the rest of the country. One bad match early in the tournament and all of a sudden I'm relying on getting a bid at a 3 bid tournament where everyone who doesn't have a bid is competing for it. Not to mention unlike IL, a lot of WI schools have school on the Monday of the tournament, making kids choose between skipping a day of school or missing the bracket play of a National qualifier. For some schools it's exam week and time would most likely be better spent preparing for those for some kids. Parents have to take off of work to be there. Heck, in CA in June they're starting their first pool at 3 PM on Friday and ending Sunday afternoon, fitting up to 11 matches (to win the whole tournament) into a 48 hour window (start at 3:00 Friday, end at 3:00 Sunday). If teenagers can squeeze out 11 matches in 48 hours, I think they could play 9 matches in 33 or so hours. Then again, it'd have to be organized better, and there's really no motivation for USAV to have that happen as there are no other options for teams. Don't like it? Fine. Don't show up to your biggest opportunity to bid in the Midwest. It's as simple as that for them, unfortunately.
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Post by vballman1234 on Jan 22, 2015 10:11:07 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more notpatfoley. Not only was this poorly run, but the 3-day event does not work for WI clubs and their families. The IL event grew slightly but really didn't get the big name clubs they were expecting. Time to go back to a WI and IL separate event.
On a side note, MVC 18s seems to be rolling. Good to see a WI club playing well so early.
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Post by yorktowne12 on Jan 22, 2015 12:47:20 GMT -5
What happens when California moves to the MLK weekend "for one year" due to the holiday!
Now we have California, Can-Am and Chicago all at the same time.
Where will college coaches want to go?
I agree the same teams attended the Chicago and Wisconsin event. All we did was put everyone under one roof. On the plus side it may of saved money ? Now you attend one qualifier and not two in the midwest.
I expect St Louis to almost Double next year with califiornia moving to possibly mlk weekend.
We did power pools last year at Zonals. And It worked out great. The top teams got to play the other top teams the entire event. Power pools for earned seeds into the gold bracket are the way to go. Let first day 2nd and 3rd place finishers battle it out an win a pool and a cross over maybe and make it into the gold bracket.
But let those top 16 teams do a power pool on day 2 and have a 3 day of amazing play as well. That makes the 3 day events worth while.
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Post by bradk on Jan 22, 2015 13:12:31 GMT -5
So last year the organizer of the Chicago Qualifier and the organizers of the Wisconsin Qualifier get together and say lets combine the bids but still host the Wisconsin tournament. So Chicago gets the 6 bids and gets the 3 day CC tournament. Wisconsin does not get bids but gets what is called a seeding tournament which will hold the same weight as California summer tournament (according to last years bid book, USAV's words not mine). Everyone goes to Chicago, and no one goes to Wisconsin (too much travel for Chicago area teams as Chicago club directors told me). They also had a 3rd summer tournament set up for the dells the weekend of California in the summer that no one registered for at all. They took a risk thinking they could run 3 high profile tournaments and it came down to only having 1 6 team bid event.
Even though the bids are the same number for the Midwest (9) it does make put more pressure on those tournament days. Have a key player get hurt prior to Chicago and have a poor performance. Now you are scrambling in St. Louis to try and move up into a bid. Run into a poorly seeded team or two in Chicago and you are now scrambling again. For Wisconsin teams at least they have the fail safe of attending East Coast to earn a bid if they need to, Chicago clubs do not have that option.
This is the first I have heard about the MLK weekend and Cali, that would be interesting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 13:24:38 GMT -5
What happens when California moves to the MLK weekend "for one year" due to the holiday! Now we have California, Can-Am and Chicago all at the same time. Where will college coaches want to go? I agree the same teams attended the Chicago and Wisconsin event. All we did was put everyone under one roof. On the plus side it may of saved money ? Now you attend one qualifier and not two in the midwest. I expect St Louis to almost Double next year with califiornia moving to possibly mlk weekend. We did power pools last year at Zonals. And It worked out great. The top teams got to play the other top teams the entire event. Power pools for earned seeds into the gold bracket are the way to go. Let first day 2nd and 3rd place finishers battle it out an win a pool and a cross over maybe and make it into the gold bracket. But let those top 16 teams do a power pool on day 2 and have a 3 day of amazing play as well. That makes the 3 day events worth while. As far as where coaches will go, the tournament is the weekend of college matches, so if college coaches are attending any of the club tournaments, it will be wherever they are playing (so, MPSF coaches will go to the SoCal event assuming they are playing at 1 of the SoCal schools, MIVA schools will go to the IL qualifier assuming they are playing at Loyola/Lewis, and EIVA schools will go to Can-Am if they are playing near there). Otherwise, you won't see college coaches at the events because they will be busy with their game-day preparation and matches of their own.
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cadf
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Post by cadf on Jan 22, 2015 14:56:18 GMT -5
As far as where coaches will go, the tournament is the weekend of college matches, so if college coaches are attending any of the club tournaments, it will be wherever they are playing (so, MPSF coaches will go to the SoCal event assuming they are playing at 1 of the SoCal schools, MIVA schools will go to the IL qualifier assuming they are playing at Loyola/Lewis, and EIVA schools will go to Can-Am if they are playing near there). Otherwise, you won't see college coaches at the events because they will be busy with their game-day preparation and matches of their own. On advantage to the 3 day tournament is a school in the EIVA can send an assistant coach to Chicago for Sunday / Monday AM to recruit and not miss much of the in season work.
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Post by lgb00 on Jan 22, 2015 20:38:24 GMT -5
I agree the same teams attended the Chicago and Wisconsin event. All we did was put everyone under one roof. On the plus side it may of saved money ? Now you attend one qualifier and not two in the midwest. I doubt it saves much money, assuming you can drive. The cost of a downtown hotel, the inability to negotiate things like comp'd coaches rooms, no free breakfast, parking at the hotel, taxis to anywhere (unless you want to pay ridiculous parking), expensive downtown restaurants, make this single trip just about as expensive (if not more) than 2 trips to the burbs. Plus it sucks having to sit in traffic on the way there and on the way out. It does free up a weekend though and keeps you out of the gl/bg winter weather once.
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Post by rogero1 on Jan 23, 2015 4:21:27 GMT -5
They did not steal them. Half the new group that runs chicago used to be the couple who ran Wisconsin bid event. They combined their entity's in an attempt to make a huge tournament which they have. I will take a 3 day at a cc over a 2 day at some local Wisconsin suburb high school anyday. In my opinion, if it was a well run tournament I would agree, but it simply isn't. Between the WI qualifier and the IL qualifier the Midwest qualifiers were drawing just as much talent as the single IL qualifier does. Teams from NY (LIVBC) were coming to WI and teams from PR (Coqui) were coming to the IL qualifier. In fact, Pace used to come to the IL qualifier and no longer does. The only big name that they really added was Coastal, and they didn't become a big name until after the combination of qualifiers. Besides the fact that USAV gets to make more money out of a 3 day Stay to Play tournament, there is no reason this tournament can't be completed in 2 days. These are teenage boys playing in best of 3 matches. The max amount of matches a team plays is 9 matches. Some teams played 4 total matches in a 50 hour period. Maximum is 9 matches in about 50 hours. With a convention center you could easily complete the first and part of the second pools on day 1 and then complete the second pool and playoffs on day 2 like they used to do. If I were still coaching in the Wisconsin area my biggest concern is the biggest opportunity for me to earn a bid just moved up and I have had less practice time with my club team together compared to much of the rest of the country. One bad match early in the tournament and all of a sudden I'm relying on getting a bid at a 3 bid tournament where everyone who doesn't have a bid is competing for it. Not to mention unlike IL, a lot of WI schools have school on the Monday of the tournament, making kids choose between skipping a day of school or missing the bracket play of a National qualifier. For some schools it's exam week and time would most likely be better spent preparing for those for some kids. Parents have to take off of work to be there. Heck, in CA in June they're starting their first pool at 3 PM on Friday and ending Sunday afternoon, fitting up to 11 matches (to win the whole tournament) into a 48 hour window (start at 3:00 Friday, end at 3:00 Sunday). If teenagers can squeeze out 11 matches in 48 hours, I think they could play 9 matches in 33 or so hours. Then again, it'd have to be organized better, and there's really no motivation for USAV to have that happen as there are no other options for teams. Don't like it? Fine. Don't show up to your biggest opportunity to bid in the Midwest. It's as simple as that for them, unfortunately. Pace stayed home last weekend to play in their Can-Am bid tourney. Why would they travel here when they can nearly assure themselves of a bid at home? This bid tournament does need improvement with where to put the bid bracket matches on day 3. As for playing 9 matches in 2 days, those days are gone. I remember them from coaching also. It was brutal trying to stay awake driving back home after 5 matches on day 2. If you had one bad match on day 1, you better hope that 2 other teams also falter to get into a three-way tie at worst. My team did that one year and we ended up in gold with a 1-2 record because the team we were tied with left because they thought we were going to go 0-3 in our last match and they would be 3rd with a 1-2 record. Since we beat that last team head-to-head (who was also ended up 1-2), we ended up in 2nd. In CA, that June tourney is not a bid tournament where you have to add on bid playoffs. As for playing 11 matches in 48 hours, they have gone away from that to prevent injuries. Looks like they play a max of 4 matches in a day. Playing 5 matches in a day is tough. I remember when I used to do that and we had to get our 2nd or 3rd wind to pull through that last match of the day. Even at the last year's Boys JNC, the most any team played was 13 matches in 4 days. Sorry that you're from WI, but for most of the US, that Monday is a school holiday. FWIW, Balboa Bay stopped sending their teams because their exams were around the same time also. Their parents did not want their boys to not study those days.
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Post by freeball on Jan 23, 2015 13:28:12 GMT -5
What happens when California moves to the MLK weekend "for one year" due to the holiday! Now we have California, Can-Am and Chicago all at the same time. Where will college coaches want to go? I agree the same teams attended the Chicago and Wisconsin event. All we did was put everyone under one roof. On the plus side it may of saved money ? Now you attend one qualifier and not two in the midwest. I expect St Louis to almost Double next year with califiornia moving to possibly mlk weekend. We did power pools last year at Zonals. And It worked out great. The top teams got to play the other top teams the entire event. Power pools for earned seeds into the gold bracket are the way to go. Let first day 2nd and 3rd place finishers battle it out an win a pool and a cross over maybe and make it into the gold bracket. But let those top 16 teams do a power pool on day 2 and have a 3 day of amazing play as well. That makes the 3 day events worth while. Is Cali really moving their qualifier to MLK weekend or is that just speculation? What's the reasoning behind it? I wonder if it an attempt to keep Midwest and East teams from attending and receiving bids that would otherwise go to CA teams (assuming those teams choose to stay with Chicago or Can-Am)?
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Post by vball1818 on Jan 23, 2015 13:48:10 GMT -5
What happens when California moves to the MLK weekend "for one year" due to the holiday! Now we have California, Can-Am and Chicago all at the same time. Where will college coaches want to go? I agree the same teams attended the Chicago and Wisconsin event. All we did was put everyone under one roof. On the plus side it may of saved money ? Now you attend one qualifier and not two in the midwest. I expect St Louis to almost Double next year with califiornia moving to possibly mlk weekend. We did power pools last year at Zonals. And It worked out great. The top teams got to play the other top teams the entire event. Power pools for earned seeds into the gold bracket are the way to go. Let first day 2nd and 3rd place finishers battle it out an win a pool and a cross over maybe and make it into the gold bracket. But let those top 16 teams do a power pool on day 2 and have a 3 day of amazing play as well. That makes the 3 day events worth while. Is Cali really moving their qualifier to MLK weekend or is that just speculation? What's the reasoning behind it? I wonder if it an attempt to keep Midwest and East teams from attending and receiving bids that would otherwise go to CA teams (assuming those teams choose to stay with Chicago or Can-Am)? The Friday it usually starts on is New Years Day.
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