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Post by norcal on Jun 14, 2016 11:43:36 GMT -5
What you are saying may be true, but this is not evidence to support your point. It's not that there are very few Select A1 returners because they didn't make it this year. I'm proposing an alternative hypothesis. The fact that so few Select A1 kids from last year are on the YNT Training roster would be circumstantial evidence for it. Youth team is different than A1 training team. USAV is very candid with the players in camp. It is a break point. One represents USA internationally. And, other is an excellent training program with a competition at the end. If you examine the 2019/2020 players on the youth team, you will notice something very quickly. They are huge. They are not best players at this time. Many are very awkward. But, they have the potential to be the best players in the future. 6'3 2020 setter is not the best setter at this time in her age group. But, she should be in the future. The 6'5 2019 OH is not the most refined hitter in her age group; but she should be in the future. Both have committed to big time programs. And, rightly so. They should be outstanding. On average, the girls on the youth team are significantly bigger than the average A1 girl. It is an elite pipeline.
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Post by eldorado on Jun 14, 2016 11:54:50 GMT -5
NorCal is correct and in fact he predicted this a year ago. It was a solid prediction as it happens every two year cycle. This year big for uncommitted sophomores and even some freshmen. Personally know that the three So Cal setters who played A1 chose either not to play or try out as they wanted to visit top school camps. Two 2019 didn't try out, setters seem to go early these days so face time with coaches took priority and they knew they wouldn't get NTT offers over older girls. A year makes a huge difference in skill set.
Not saying those who didn't try out would have made A1, could be they would have been deselected in favor of those on the team now. We will never know. Congrats to the girls playing, it's really an awesome program and very exciting to be chosen.
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Post by jma1968 on Jun 14, 2016 12:05:26 GMT -5
No disagreements. I'm aware that Youth Team is different from Youth A1, but I'm also saying that, theoretically, SELECT (not Youth) A1 and Holiday Camps should be a pipeline to Youth National Training team. It seems this is not the case, given how few seem to have followed this path to the YNT Training roster. So my point was perhaps we don't know how to identify them. There are other possibilities, including:
- It's not possible to identify these kids when they are 12, 13, 14, etc. The 14 year old 6'3" setter may have been an awkward, uncoordinated 5'7" 12 year old who couldn't serve overhand. - Those kids aren't able or willing to make a commitment any earlier than Youth age. This seems entirely plausible to me. - We don't care about identifying them that early, because the process works as it is, the cream rises eventually. If true, this would call into question the value of the Future Select and Select programs, at least in terms of identifying future International-caliber players.
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Post by sandman32 on Jun 14, 2016 12:22:18 GMT -5
And then there is a few more possibilities...
It could be that some of the kids who were top players last year aren't this year. and some of the kids who are, weren't last year.
it's possible a kid who tried out last year got placed on the A2 team because they were new to the program and didn't have enough evidence to move them up, went to the camp and then earned an A1 invite based on performance last year.
I do know of several girls who decided that if they didn't get the YNT they were quitting HP, but that is not the majority of girls that are missing from the roster
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Post by sandman32 on Jun 14, 2016 12:34:11 GMT -5
Lets be honest, their were 55 girls on the A1 team, and probably 15-20 of them might have been expecting, (not hoping), for a YNT invitation. 12 made the YNT roster. 43 didn't. Of the 43, 4 came back. Do you mean to tell me that 39 girls quit the program because they didn't get picked for the YNTT?
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Post by wishinwestcoastvb on Jun 14, 2016 12:43:26 GMT -5
Lets be honest, their were 55 girls on the A1 team, and probably 15-20 of them might have been expecting, (not hoping), for a YNT invitation. 12 made the YNT roster. 43 didn't. Of the 43, 4 came back. Do you mean to tell me that 39 girls quit the program because they didn't get picked for the YNTT? at the youth and junior ages, if girls don't make the national team, they simply choose not to attend. Most of the girls know they are going to decent D1 schools and they would much rather take a break.
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Post by norcal on Jun 14, 2016 12:43:54 GMT -5
No disagreements. I'm aware that Youth Team is different from Youth A1, but I'm also saying that, theoretically, SELECT (not Youth) A1 and Holiday Camps should be a pipeline to Youth National Training team. It seems this is not the case, given how few seem to have followed this path to the YNT Training roster. Agree. But, USAV is very candid at the camps. The girls are informed what they need to work on and what is realistic from an athletic perspective. It is a break point. Everyone at camp knows this. Everyone knows that Youth A1 training is not the same as Select A1. There are no surprises here. The kids are ranked. And, they know their ranking. They know where they fall in the depth chart. So parents and kids make thoughtful decisions based on the rankings. You are correct. Some parents and kids thought they were set based on the ranking. They would be on the National Youth team and were surprised that USAV coaches were still actively recruiting girls outside of Select A1. What is wrong about that? They are representing USA internationally. I view it as a good thing. Welcome to college. Where coaches are actively seeking out transfers to improve their roster. This is the same thing. Odds of going from Youth A1 training to National Team are low. But, hopefully, that it is not why the kids are attending. But, for many Select A1 that did not make the Youth team, the option of playing on the top court at a couple of big time college camps (with the incoming recruiting classes) is more attractive than attending Youth A1 camp for a couple of weeks in mid-July.
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Post by eldorado on Jun 14, 2016 12:48:43 GMT -5
Lets be honest, their were 55 girls on the A1 team, and probably 15-20 of them might have been expecting, (not hoping), for a YNT invitation. 12 made the YNT roster. 43 didn't. Of the 43, 4 came back. Do you mean to tell me that 39 girls quit the program because they didn't get picked for the YNTT? 39 would likely be an exaggeration of course. But I talked to 4 and 4/4 (talked to a MB too) were a yes to your question, either declined an invitation or didn't tryout because an invite was highly unlikely. Imagine you're on a team several years and a bunch of your friends (many of these girls are good friends) makes a team. You don't and your option is to play a lesser program or to move on and do something that can make a difference for your future. You're not going to accept that. Time to give someone else a shot. Especially if they were multi year HP and on the Red White or Blue team, 100% of them would decline.
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Post by ay2013 on Jun 15, 2016 2:31:43 GMT -5
I did see quite a few previous A1 kids at this year's tryout, and their names are not on the roster. You can speculate whatever the reasons for this but I doubt we will be able to find out the truth. It appears that 2019 kids are catching up with 2018 kids in the pipeline this year (more OH and MH than S and L proportionally). There are 10 of 2019 kids in YNTT and 15 in Youth A1 (25 total). There are 13 of 2018 kids in YNTT and 15 in Youth A1 (28 total). There are a lot of talents in Youth A1 and likely outside HP as well. Or it could be they want a healthy balance between the classes to not potentially miss anyone. I mean, last years' YNTT half were 2016 and half were 2017.
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Post by sandman32 on Jun 15, 2016 8:16:39 GMT -5
I do think that if USAV makes a habit of picking half their national team tryout rosters from kids who were never in the program, and/or chooses half or more of the kids for the YNT from kids that were never in the program, that their program will diminish significantly.
It's a stupid move from a money perspective. They are jeopardizing the cash cow that keeps them in business. Over the past several years the HP program has grown significantly in size, and the money it raises from the programs it offers has been enormous. Devalue the programs and you lower attendance.
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Post by onfiya on Jun 15, 2016 10:30:43 GMT -5
By this are you saying that they picked the most talented girls available to them from all over the country? Where in the past it has been a huge west coast/regional team...
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Post by sandman32 on Jun 15, 2016 10:58:42 GMT -5
By this are you saying that they picked the most talented girls available to them from all over the country? Where in the past it has been a huge west coast/regional team... No, I'm saying if you market your program at the younger levels as being the pathway to the podium, and it isn't, then you risk loosing the cash cow which makes everything possible. Why bother with HP when USAV is going to invite you into their program once your in the youth division if you're good enough.
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Post by vbct3 on Jun 15, 2016 12:46:52 GMT -5
By this are you saying that they picked the most talented girls available to them from all over the country? Where in the past it has been a huge west coast/regional team... No, I'm saying if you market your program at the younger levels as being the pathway to the podium, and it isn't, then you risk loosing the cash cow which makes everything possible. Why bother with HP when USAV is going to invite you into their program once your in the youth division if you're good enough. Because many of the kids and parents like the experience, have heard good things, or want the coaching? Or, you know, they just have money to burn
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Post by jma1968 on Jun 15, 2016 12:54:59 GMT -5
No, I'm saying if you market your program at the younger levels as being the pathway to the podium, and it isn't, then you risk loosing the cash cow which makes everything possible. Why bother with HP when USAV is going to invite you into their program once your in the youth division if you're good enough. Because many of the kids and parents like the experience, have heard good things, or want the coaching? Or, you know, they just have money to burn Reasonable enough, and probably closer to the truth than USAV would publicly admit. But this is not how it is being marketed today.
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Post by sandman32 on Jun 15, 2016 13:24:10 GMT -5
No, I'm saying if you market your program at the younger levels as being the pathway to the podium, and it isn't, then you risk loosing the cash cow which makes everything possible. Why bother with HP when USAV is going to invite you into their program once your in the youth division if you're good enough. Because many of the kids and parents like the experience, have heard good things, or want the coaching? Or, you know, they just have money to burn But you're missing the point. HP exists because it is supposed to be the pathway to the podium, not the pathway to parents pockets. It will lose its alure to the better players then those kids will start going to multiple college camps instead. The less talent that participates, the less talent which will be chosen from the program. Eventually the camp will sink to the level of Nike and UnderArmour and become irrelevant.
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