rook
Sophomore
Posts: 180
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Post by rook on Jun 18, 2016 16:19:02 GMT -5
Here are some ways to fix the HP system.
1. Make it free if you make the National team or one of the top 40 (they make a killing on tryouts anyway) 2. Get rid of the A2 and A3 camps, these are destroying HP participation in the region because the cost to go to those camps often prohibit players from being able to participate in their region's program. More importantly, they are robbing all of the talent from the regions when they have an A-2 red, white, blue, silver, turquoise, pink, blah blah blah team.
HP was a much better experience when it was competitive for the regions. With the growth of the number of "national" teams, regions don't want to participate anymore, and good kids don't want to because there's no talent left.
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Post by BigTenVball on Jun 19, 2016 8:09:46 GMT -5
Almost completely agree. The A3 and below program are simply money makers for USA, as well as some of the A2. We had athletes from our region make the A2 but fail to make the region team. And the concept of 5 teams at some if overkill. Red-White-Blue-Stars-Stripes..... The only slight exception there is, is that the region teams are not more competitive. 2015 Womens Int Gold-USA Jr Red, Silver-Iowa Bronze-USA Youth Red Youth Int- Gold- Dominican Sliver-Florida Bronze- Badger Youth National- Gold-Florida Silver-USA Select Stars Bronze-Iowa 2014 Womens Int- Gold- USA Jr Red Silver- Puerto Rico Bronze-Florida Youth Int- Gold-Florida Silver-Iowa Bronze-Badger Youth National- Gold-Lone Star Silver- Iowa Bronze - KRVA
So region teams CAN hold their own, but you are right, in that USA sometimes takes WAY too many athletes. What it should do, is take less athletes, then ENCOURAGE athletes not making it to do region teams.
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Post by norcal on Jun 19, 2016 16:06:56 GMT -5
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Post by eldorado on Jun 19, 2016 16:48:35 GMT -5
Almost completely agree. The A3 and below program are simply money makers for USA, as well as some of the A2. We had athletes from our region make the A2 but fail to make the region team. And the concept of 5 teams at some if overkill. Red-White-Blue-Stars-Stripes..... The only slight exception there is, is that the region teams are not more competitive. 2015 Womens Int Gold-USA Jr Red, Silver-Iowa Bronze-USA Youth Red Youth Int- Gold- Dominican Sliver-Florida Bronze- Badger Youth National- Gold-Florida Silver-USA Select Stars Bronze-Iowa 2014 Womens Int- Gold- USA Jr Red Silver- Puerto Rico Bronze-Florida Youth Int- Gold-Florida Silver-Iowa Bronze-Badger Youth National- Gold-Lone Star Silver- Iowa Bronze - KRVA So region teams CAN hold their own, but you are right, in that USA sometimes takes WAY too many athletes. What it should do, is take less athletes, then ENCOURAGE athletes not making it to do region teams. Don't forget that the USA teams are playing up an age division. For example in the Youth National the USA "Stars" team (#4 team) was a select age team. If you feel edging out girls 2 years younger is holding your own, great. In my thinking it shows the A1 program wasn't oversubscribed last year.
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Post by trainermch on Jun 20, 2016 0:03:00 GMT -5
Here are some ways to fix the HP system. 1. Make it free if you make the National team or one of the top 40 (they make a killing on tryouts anyway) 2. Get rid of the A2 and A3 camps, these are destroying HP participation in the region because the cost to go to those camps often prohibit players from being able to participate in their region's program. More importantly, they are robbing all of the talent from the regions when they have an A-2 red, white, blue, silver, turquoise, pink, blah blah blah team. HP was a much better experience when it was competitive for the regions. With the growth of the number of "national" teams, regions don't want to participate anymore, and good kids don't want to because there's no talent left. Top teams are all expenses paid.
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Post by bigfan2 on Jun 20, 2016 12:00:38 GMT -5
I must be speaking-da foreign-ahh lang-a-uage, because you're not hearing me. For the last three or four years these girls have been told that to get on the YNTT you have to be a part of HP. This statement goes not only for the cream of the crop, but kids who attend the entire program. A few years ago they made a big deal out of saying that every player on the Olympic Men's and Women's teams but one had ties to HP in their youth. For three or four years these kids have attended tryouts and parents have shelled out thousands of dollars to be a part of the program. Now, when their group is headed up to the next level, USAV decides to go out to qualifiers and big tourneys to search for talent, and then encourage those kids to attend tryouts. It's unclear if any of the kids actually tried out at one of the HP tryouts, only that they were scouted and hand picked by USAV for the YNTT. If these kids had found their way to HP on their own, no one would say a word, but USAV went against what it is preaching while milking thousands of players for money. Because of this All the kids Youth and under who have participated in HP now have no incentive to attend the HP Program as a means to get to the YNT. It's a farce. If USAV is going to go out the year of the YNTT and scout talent and then contact them to "tryout", why would anyone spend a dime on USAV HP Programs? They're inconvenient and costly. This reminds me of the old adage that "if you're good enough they will find you". People will find better ways to spend their money in my opinion. A bunch according to others already have.
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Post by bigfan2 on Jun 20, 2016 12:06:32 GMT -5
Almost all of the best players attend an HP tryout in their region. I remember watching the Rolfzen twins try out when they were about 16 years old and they just were already incredible! For the U.S. Youth National team that went to Peru in 2015 all the players tried out at HP. Also, Coach Stone sent a couple of his trusted Front Range club coaches to watch the best players at National Qualifiers. One coach I spoke with was evaluating setters during the Qualifiers. He asked some of us our opinions of a few of the 16 and 17 year old setters He esp. liked Hilley, Madison Lilley, Atherton, and Aleksak.
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Post by dgo on Jun 20, 2016 13:29:33 GMT -5
Almost all of the best players attend an HP tryout in their region. I remember watching the Rolfzen twins try out when they were about 16 years old and they just were already incredible! For the U.S. Youth National team that went to Peru in 2015 all the players tried out at HP. Also, Coach Stone sent a couple of his trusted Front Range club coaches to watch the best players at National Qualifiers. One coach I spoke with was evaluating setters during the Qualifiers. He asked some of us our opinions of a few of the 16 and 17 year old setters He esp. liked Hilley, Madison Lilley, Atherton, and Aleksak. Perhaps this varies by region. I know many top players in OVR that have never tried out for the OVR HP team. I should probably clarify that I'm speaking specifically about top players in NE Ohio -- I honestly don't know who tries out in other parts of the state. But I do know that many top players from Columbus and Cincinnati -- players I'd expect to see on the team if they'd tried out -- haven't been on it.
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dad
Junior High
Posts: 2
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Post by dad on Jul 22, 2016 15:24:23 GMT -5
High Performance is definitely NOT worth it. This is not a training program. It's just an expensive tournament .... really expensive. The level at the younger ages is also not that competitive. Most open level club teams would destroy these HP teams. Luckily my daughter played, but I watched many sit on the sidelines and never play .... and they were good players. The coaches aren't the highest quality either. Yes, they are D1, but from lower ranked teams. My daughter got very little instruction and very few touches. I would suggest high quality college or club camps that give lots of touches.
They also definitely work at selling their lie by telling the girls to refer to themselves as future Olympians. BTW, most Olympians don't go through the program. They told us that at the opening ceremony.
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Post by vbct3 on Jul 22, 2016 15:44:44 GMT -5
High Performance is definitely NOT worth it. This is not a training program. It's just an expensive tournament .... really expensive. The level at the younger ages is also not that competitive. Most open level club teams would destroy these HP teams. Luckily my daughter played, but I watched many sit on the sidelines and never play .... and they were good players. The coaches aren't the highest quality either. Yes, they are D1, but from lower ranked teams. My daughter got very little instruction and very few touches. I would suggest high quality college or club camps that give lots of touches. They also definitely work at selling their lie by telling the girls to refer to themselves as future Olympians. BTW, most Olympians don't go through the program. They told us that at the opening ceremony. I've spoken to parents and players who have been through HP programs from the A3 level up to JNT/YNT levels. And there is always a huge variance in experiences. Some love the experience, others indifferent, others openly dislike it. I think it speaks to the fact that so many players try out at the Youth and Junior age level, then drop out if they don't make YNT/JNT. Seems pretty dependent on who you end up getting as your coaches for your program. Some are great, some are mediocre, and everything in between. Pretty much like any other camp, including "high quality college or club camps." But let's remember, just because someone is from a high ranked D1 team doesn't make them a great coach. Similarly, just because someone is from a lower ranked D1 team, doesn't automatically make them a poor coach. However, every day of the week I'll take the players' perspectives/opinion on their experience over their parents'. (A1 levels and up are definitely more an extended YNT/JNT tryout than an actual training program. Players get a few days of training, less on technique and more on USA's system. Then they are re-ranked and broken out into teams for more team specific system training. Then the tournament. If you want a training program, opt down to A2/A3 where it is actually labeled "Training Team" or "Training Program" and kids get a ton of touches in drill scenarios.)
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dad
Junior High
Posts: 2
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Post by dad on Jul 22, 2016 18:28:13 GMT -5
High Performance is definitely NOT worth it. This is not a training program. It's just an expensive tournament .... really expensive. The level at the younger ages is also not that competitive. Most open level club teams would destroy these HP teams. Luckily my daughter played, but I watched many sit on the sidelines and never play .... and they were good players. The coaches aren't the highest quality either. Yes, they are D1, but from lower ranked teams. My daughter got very little instruction and very few touches. I would suggest high quality college or club camps that give lots of touches. They also definitely work at selling their lie by telling the girls to refer to themselves as future Olympians. BTW, most Olympians don't go through the program. They told us that at the opening ceremony. I've spoken to parents and players who have been through HP programs from the A3 level up to JNT/YNT levels. And there is always a huge variance in experiences. Some love the experience, others indifferent, others openly dislike it. I think it speaks to the fact that so many players try out at the Youth and Junior age level, then drop out if they don't make YNT/JNT. Seems pretty dependent on who you end up getting as your coaches for your program. Some are great, some are mediocre, and everything in between. Pretty much like any other camp, including "high quality college or club camps." But let's remember, just because someone is from a high ranked D1 team doesn't make them a great coach. Similarly, just because someone is from a lower ranked D1 team, doesn't automatically make them a poor coach. However, every day of the week I'll take the players' perspectives/opinion on their experience over their parents'. (A1 levels and up are definitely more an extended YNT/JNT tryout than an actual training program. Players get a few days of training, less on technique and more on USA's system. Then they are re-ranked and broken out into teams for more team specific system training. Then the tournament. If you want a training program, opt down to A2/A3 where it is actually labeled "Training Team" or "Training Program" and kids get a ton of touches in drill scenarios.) Fair enough about coach's experience and a player's opinion, but younger players can't always process correctly, and that includes some high schoolers. As for training, then why is it labeled the "A1 National TRAINING Team Program" if it's not meant to have much training? It's easy to dismiss overzealous parents. I get that. Fair enough and make the decision for yourself, but the quality comes no where close to matching the cost even at the tournament level. Maybe we've just been lucky at finding high level training outside of HP. I don't want to be too tough because my daughter actually had fun and made friends.
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