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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 15, 2016 13:37:19 GMT -5
Because many of the kids and parents like the experience, have heard good things, or want the coaching? Or, you know, they just have money to burn But you're missing the point. HP exists because it is supposed to be the pathway to the podium, not the pathway to parents pockets. It will lose its alure to the better players then those kids will start going to multiple college camps instead. The less talent that participates, the less talent which will be chosen from the program. Eventually the camp will sink to the level of Nike and UnderArmour and become irrelevant. And if they exclude talent that wasn't part of the program before, the talent level will fall and players will go elsewhere to get competition. I honestly can't believe you want to exclude better players just because they didn't play the game. Maybe I'm overestimating parents, but they'd have to be dumb to not know that it's not a guaranteed path to the podium, but that getting the competition, exposure to talent, and exposure to the system/program is the best path to the podium and an overall net benefit.
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Post by sandman32 on Jun 15, 2016 14:44:57 GMT -5
I must be speaking-da foreign-ahh lang-a-uage, because you're not hearing me.
For the last three or four years these girls have been told that to get on the YNTT you have to be a part of HP. This statement goes not only for the cream of the crop, but kids who attend the entire program. A few years ago they made a big deal out of saying that every player on the Olympic Men's and Women's teams but one had ties to HP in their youth. For three or four years these kids have attended tryouts and parents have shelled out thousands of dollars to be a part of the program. Now, when their group is headed up to the next level, USAV decides to go out to qualifiers and big tourneys to search for talent, and then encourage those kids to attend tryouts. It's unclear if any of the kids actually tried out at one of the HP tryouts, only that they were scouted and hand picked by USAV for the YNTT. If these kids had found their way to HP on their own, no one would say a word, but USAV went against what it is preaching while milking thousands of players for money.
Because of this All the kids Youth and under who have participated in HP now have no incentive to attend the HP Program as a means to get to the YNT. It's a farce. If USAV is going to go out the year of the YNTT and scout talent and then contact them to "tryout", why would anyone spend a dime on USAV HP Programs? They're inconvenient and costly. This reminds me of the old adage that "if you're good enough they will find you". People will find better ways to spend their money in my opinion. A bunch according to others already have.
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Post by ay2013 on Jun 15, 2016 15:14:15 GMT -5
I must be speaking-da foreign-ahh lang-a-uage, because you're not hearing me. For the last three or four years these girls have been told that to get on the YNTT you have to be a part of HP. This statement goes not only for the cream of the crop, but kids who attend the entire program. A few years ago they made a big deal out of saying that every player on the Olympic Men's and Women's teams but one had ties to HP in their youth. For three or four years these kids have attended tryouts and parents have shelled out thousands of dollars to be a part of the program. Now, when their group is headed up to the next level, USAV decides to go out to qualifiers and big tourneys to search for talent, and then encourage those kids to attend tryouts. It's unclear if any of the kids actually tried out at one of the HP tryouts, only that they were scouted and hand picked by USAV for the YNTT. If these kids had found their way to HP on their own, no one would say a word, but USAV went against what it is preaching while milking thousands of players for money. Because of this All the kids Youth and under who have participated in HP now have no incentive to attend the HP Program as a means to get to the YNT. It's a farce. If USAV is going to go out the year of the YNTT and scout talent and then contact them to "tryout", why would anyone spend a dime on USAV HP Programs? They're inconvenient and costly. This reminds me of the old adage that "if you're good enough they will find you". People will find better ways to spend their money in my opinion. A bunch according to others already have. I think there is a lot of merit in this. I think if the goal is exposure and getting the look of elite colleges, HP is one of only many ways to accomplish that. And as have previously demonstrated, if the goal is to actually put on a red, white, and blue jersey, you don't need to have gone through HP to do that.
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Post by vbfamily on Jun 15, 2016 15:51:08 GMT -5
My daughter has been in the HP program since the first year of future select. Made A2 when two of her club teammates made A1 and worked hard at camp to show she was also a good player. Second year they grouped A1 and A2 future select together, she started out in the bottom group and worked her way up to the "sixth" team of 16. Probably barely squeaked into a holiday camp invite that first year. Had a very successful holiday camp and each camp she has attended since. Her drive to be the best increases each and every time she attends a USA camp, the coaches she has worked with over the years have been amazing. I truly believe the time with USA volleyball has given her a dream and the drive to pursuit it. This doesn't even include the incredible experience of creating the relationships with players and coaches throughout the country that I just find is irreplaceable. Would she ever have been identified by USA volleyball if she didn't go through the pipeline, I'm not sure. I'll never know because she did each and every camp. She was very fortunate to be granted an invitation to be part of the YNTT, but even if she hadn't, every cent paid to do each of the previous camps was money well spent. We certainly do NOT have money to burn, in fact my daughter gives up birthday and Christmas presents each year to attend. But each time she comes back, she has noticeably improved and her drive just increases. She'll go to Florida next month and compete hard again with some amazing players and whether she is or is not selected to the YNT, she will again be so happy for another amazing experience and will work hard to continue to improve to get a chance the next year.
I cannot however compare the USA HP experience for her to a college camp experience, as she has yet to ever attend a college camp since she started with USA HP and loved every one. With limited resources she had to choose.
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Post by norcal on Jun 15, 2016 16:20:14 GMT -5
Would she ever have been identified by USA volleyball if she didn't go through the pipeline, I'm not sure. Of course, vbfamly is correct. And, hopefully she makes the team. That would be terrific. Big fan. But, if your only goal is to make the Youth team, be realistic. Pipeline is not the only way. For liberos, the pipeline is likely the best way. But, for setters or front line players, be realistic. Why wouldn't USAV coaches not encourage a 6'3 2020 setter or a 6'5 2019 OH that were not in the pipeline to tryout?
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Post by vbct3 on Jun 15, 2016 21:38:34 GMT -5
I'm surprised people are so against USAV inviting players to the try-outs.
In my experience, there are so many players and parents that either don't know that HP is a thing. Or they have heard of it and don't know anything about it. Yes, this includes players/parents who are at major qualifiers.
So why not reach out to high potential athletes and gauge their interest?
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Post by ay2013 on Jun 15, 2016 22:50:30 GMT -5
Would she ever have been identified by USA volleyball if she didn't go through the pipeline, I'm not sure. Of course, vbfamly is correct. And, hopefully she makes the team. That would be terrific. Big fan. But, if your only goal is to make the Youth team, be realistic. Pipeline is not the only way. For liberos, the pipeline is likely the best way. But, for setters or front line players, be realistic. Why wouldn't USAV coaches not encourage a 6'3 2020 setter or a 6'5 2019 OH that were not in the pipeline to tryout? I think there is some mixed messages here. I think it's one thing to suggest that USAV should be encouraging all the potential future stars to get in the HP pipeline as early as possible, it's another all together to pass over the hard working girls previously in the pipeline (like vbfamily's daughter) for the YNTT for reasons other than who actually is the best during evaluation. I'm sure Shaffmaster will be great, but if those USAV coaches can say with a straight face that she'd help the YNT win their schedule more than every other 2018 and 2019 setter that they evaluated, then I have some swamp land in Florida I'd like to sell them.
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Post by norcal on Jun 16, 2016 0:13:31 GMT -5
Can you actually play up for YNTT like Shaffmaster? I know some 2020 kids in Youth group actually were born in late 2001 as many 2019 kids and decided to go to school late. Just wondering... If so, it is fair to compare their skill sets with kids in the same age group. USAV is calendar year. Not club year or school grade. Youth includes 2000 and 2001 birthdates. Likely she has a later 2001 birthdate. And, thus was in grade 8 last year (vs. most with 2001 birthdates were in grade 9 last year).
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Post by norcal on Jun 16, 2016 0:27:26 GMT -5
Of course, vbfamly is correct. And, hopefully she makes the team. That would be terrific. Big fan. But, if your only goal is to make the Youth team, be realistic. Pipeline is not the only way. For liberos, the pipeline is likely the best way. But, for setters or front line players, be realistic. Why wouldn't USAV coaches not encourage a 6'3 2020 setter or a 6'5 2019 OH that were not in the pipeline to tryout? I think there is some mixed messages here ... it's another all together to pass over the hard working girls previously in the pipeline (like vbfamily's daughter) for the YNTT for reasons other than who actually is the best during evaluation. Agree with your comments about the 2020 6'3 setter. Not likely to assist this year. Can they carry her on the roster? Not sure. Usually, they carry only two setters. Actually, vbfamly's DD did not get passed over. She was one of the 20 selected for the final tryouts. She is the success story for the program. A1 libero who was not always A1.
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Post by ay2013 on Jun 16, 2016 0:42:50 GMT -5
I think there is some mixed messages here ... it's another all together to pass over the hard working girls previously in the pipeline (like vbfamily's daughter) for the YNTT for reasons other than who actually is the best during evaluation. Agree with your comments about the 2020 6'3 setter. Not likely to assist this year. Can they carry her on the roster? Not sure. Usually, they carry only two setters. Actually, vbfamly's DD did not get passed over. She was one of the 20 selected for the final tryouts. She is the success story for the program. A1 libero who was not always A1. Yes, I know that her daughter made it but my point is that there are plenty of other girls just like her who work their butts off through the pipeline that get passed over. And while I think it's PERFECTLY fine to recruit new players outside of HP to fill spots on the training teams who were never involved in HP before, I think it makes sense when those players are actually better than those who were currently in the pipeline. IMO when you bring in players to fill training team spots because of FUTURE potential, it creates a different dynamic. I'm not saying that the dynamic is bad, but the whole being better now and prior work put in argument goes out the window.
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Post by coachl on Jun 16, 2016 6:06:43 GMT -5
Agree with your comments about the 2020 6'3 setter. Not likely to assist this year. Can they carry her on the roster? Not sure. Usually, they carry only two setters. Actually, vbfamly's DD did not get passed over. She was one of the 20 selected for the final tryouts. She is the success story for the program. A1 libero who was not always A1. Yes, I know that her daughter made it but my point is that there are plenty of other girls just like her who work their butts off through the pipeline that get passed over. And while I think it's PERFECTLY fine to recruit new players outside of HP to fill spots on the training teams who were never involved in HP before, I think it makes sense when those players are actually better than those who were currently in the pipeline. IMO when you bring in players to fill training team spots because of FUTURE potential, it creates a different dynamic. I'm not saying that the dynamic is bad, but the whole being better now and prior work put in argument goes out the window. I don't really want to start dropping names or comparing player-to-player, but I am confident that the YNT staff chose the best players for the YNTT. The implication that they would choose players who weren't in the pipeline not because they were better but for "other reasons" is just false and offensive to me as a fan. We may not understand all of the decisions but I trust that the staff is doing their best to pick the best team. For those questioning, why do the younger programs if you can make the YNT without doing them, well it is better for the athletes and the program if more of the eventual YNT starts at a younger age--they start learning the USA system and get to play together vs having just a few days or weeks at best before an international competition. At the same time that doesn't override choosing the best YNT that is available, even if some players have no USA experience. As a side note, let's keep in mind that Shaffmaster WAS in the pipeline and stop using her as an example of one of these "outsiders".
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Post by norcal on Jun 16, 2016 12:13:55 GMT -5
And while I think it's PERFECTLY fine to recruit new players outside of HP to fill spots on the training teams who were never involved in HP before, I think it makes sense when those players are actually better than those who were currently in the pipeline. IMO when you bring in players to fill training team spots because of FUTURE potential, it creates a different dynamic. I'm not saying that the dynamic is bad, but the whole being better now and prior work put in argument goes out the window. At the same time that doesn't override choosing the best YNT that is available, even if some players have no USA experience. Agree. But, the issue for some parents is that the selection of many, including the 2020 6'3 setter and 2019 6'5 OH, was different than they thought the pipeline worked. Work up to Select A1, make the top team, go to the Holiday Camp, make the top team and you are in the running for the Youth Team. But, to their surprise, that was not the competition for the Youth team. Pool would be bigger. Would include girls outside of the top teams at Select A1 and the Holiday Camp. Again, I think that is a good thing. They should look outside the top teams at Select A1 and the Holiday Camps. Others, are not so sure.
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jun 16, 2016 13:43:34 GMT -5
It seems naive for parents to think that USAV would not constantly be looking for players to join the pipeline. Coaches go out and see kids who are tearing it up in the club scene and invite them to come compete for a spot. How is anyone surprised that this happens at all levels? It will absolutely happen to their darling children once they get to college.
However, if HP is USAV's cash cow, I can't argue with those saying they might be shooting themselves in the foot here.
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Post by trainermch on Jun 17, 2016 14:33:58 GMT -5
The person who referenced that many don't even know what HP is gets the gold star. My daughter made WJNTT first time out. We are such rookies I know I must be driving our team contact nuts with questions. Getting into it, I have to say it felt like a secret society, and had we not had good advice from insiders, I probably would not be typing out this comment. We are thankful for the invitation to the TT.
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Post by simpleton on Jun 17, 2016 15:38:51 GMT -5
Having never participated in HP before, and being new to this site, my question is this a new phenomenon, or does this happen every year, and this argument is a regular topic of conversation on VT or other vb forums around this type of year? It would seem to me coaches are always going to be looking for the best talent for the national teams whether they have been in the pipeline before or not such that this would not be new development? I understand the argument about the cash cow, but if this is standard practice, then I guess they are not worried. But I think it would be an unrealistic expectation to think that the coaches would only be looking to those within the HP system. I certainly know that I have seen a wealth of talent around the country that has not been a part of HP.
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