|
Post by BuckysHeat on May 10, 2016 12:13:28 GMT -5
I completely agree that no coach should complain about missing a week of off season workouts to go to HP. It is only a week for A3, right? Plus they will work your daughter really hard and she will be exhausted. It's not a holiday. 3 2-hour training sessions every day, with a 1-1/2 hour classroom session at night. Unfortunately, some high school coaches bitterly resent any activity (e.g., club, HP, Nationals, camps, recruiting, etc.) that suggests that the HS coach and his/her program are not the top priority for a volleyball player. We have a lot of them in our area, and for some reason all of the ones that complain are from religious commuter schools. You know, the ones that say they do not recruit but they somehow end up with players on all of their sports teams from larger cities who like to come to a small town and run over the "competition" which are small towns with public school class sizes in the 100 student range. Yeah, they like to complain about clubs interfering with their schedules and training. And this extends down into grade schools, not just high schools. But they have no problem accepting the trophies they got because of their club players
|
|
|
Post by 642fiddi on May 10, 2016 12:13:39 GMT -5
This subject was discussed in depth on a previous thread. I tried to find it but it must be archived by know. Perhaps the moderator could resurrect it. There were some great observations on that thread.
|
|
|
Post by vbct3 on May 10, 2016 12:19:36 GMT -5
She got to measure herself against 2 very high end middles that will be going to the national team Youth tryout, which she loved. She is late 2001 so is at a big disadvantage age-wise. That part was a little frustrating for her, knowing that she was being compared head to head with a sophomore already committed to a high top ten school with no accounting for her being in 8th grade. My younger daughter is also in this situation, she was born in late august, USAV age cutoff is Sept 1 so she will always be the youngest girl on any team she plays on or nearly so. Eventually it will not matter as most girls catch up to each other by 16 years old and in the interim she will essentially always be playing up an age level. Not complaining here, just wonder why the age cutoff is not June 1st. Most club seasons are finished by this point, most schools are either out for the summer of have a week to go. Does anybody have any idea how the age dates were determined? I know they have been in place forever and it worked out for my nieces who all have Sept/Oct birthdays so they were always the oldest kids in their age group. But it has never made any type of sense. I can understand softball having a cutoff like that (they don't though) or maybe soccer based on when the seasons run IIRC, the age bracketing for the National HP programs is different than USAV's club system. The club system uses the September cut-off. HP is purely by year of birth (because that's what is used for FIVB, and the upper end goal of the HP programs are to find the athletes who will compete internationally representing USA.)
|
|
|
Post by rainbowbadger on May 10, 2016 12:53:38 GMT -5
September 1 is traditionally the cutoff for school enrollment. If a kid turns 5 after September 1, they have to get a waiver to enroll in kindergarten that year. The waiver usually entails passing some screenings to prove they're academically and developmentally mature enough. So HP using September 1 as a cutoff date makes it more likely* that kids in the same grades will be grouped together.
*This becomes less of a guarantee as kindergarten redshirting grows trendier.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 13:01:01 GMT -5
September 1 is traditionally the cutoff for school enrollment. If a kid turns 5 after September 1, they have to get a waiver to enroll in kindergarten that year. The waiver usually entails passing some screenings to prove they're academically and developmentally mature enough. So HP using September 1 as a cutoff date makes it more likely* that kids in the same grades will be grouped together. *This becomes less of a guarantee as kindergarten redshirting grows trendier. The date doesn't matter. The ONLY info for it is 'year of birth'. The forms coaches use have that information.
|
|
|
Post by BuckysHeat on May 10, 2016 13:04:35 GMT -5
September 1 is traditionally the cutoff for school enrollment. If a kid turns 5 after September 1, they have to get a waiver to enroll in kindergarten that year. The waiver usually entails passing some screenings to prove they're academically and developmentally mature enough. So HP using September 1 as a cutoff date makes it more likely* that kids in the same grades will be grouped together. *This becomes less of a guarantee as kindergarten redshirting grows trendier. I have two daughters and two nieces that are close to the same age Younger niece and younger Daughter - born 11 months apart (Sept - Aug), in the same grade Older daughter and other niece - born five months apart (April - Sept) in different grades All play in different age levels for club (11, 12, 13, 14). Wierd
|
|
|
Post by vbprisoner on May 10, 2016 13:29:29 GMT -5
September 1 is traditionally the cutoff for school enrollment. If a kid turns 5 after September 1, they have to get a waiver to enroll in kindergarten that year. The waiver usually entails passing some screenings to prove they're academically and developmentally mature enough. So HP using September 1 as a cutoff date makes it more likely* that kids in the same grades will be grouped together. *This becomes less of a guarantee as kindergarten redshirting grows trendier. I have two daughters and two nieces that are close to the same age Younger niece and younger Daughter - born 11 months apart (Sept - Aug), in the same grade Older daughter and other niece - born five months apart (April - Sept) in different grades All play in different age levels for club (11, 12, 13, 14). Wierd Be thankful USAV is not like AAU Basketball I went to a tournament and saw 7th and 8th grade teams from around the country and all the top teams had at least 2 players that had reclassified (repeated a grade or two) so they were able to be 14 or 15 and still play on a 7th grade team competing against 13 year olds. The same thing was prevalent on the top 8th grade teams I saw......15 and 16 year old players that had reclassified one or two times and play against 14 year olds. This is allowed in AAU, but most states have rules for public High Schools and do not allow player to be 19 going into their senior years, so these players always go play for a private school (Findley Prep, Oak Hill, etc.) or Catholic schools (DeMatha, Gonzaga, etc.) because they do not have a specified age requirement, and when they are in mddle school they either home school after 13 or go to a private school that goes from 7-12 grade.....as long as you are enrolled and are on target to graduate you may play. I saw some unbelievable basketball for 7th and 8th grade with players ranging from 5'8 - 6'11", but at the same time I felt sorry for the teams that were comprised of only 13 yo for 7th grade and 14 yo for 8th grade. They had some height too, but they were just not physically or athletically mature enough to compete. I like how volleyball and soccer are set up for ages where if you are good enough you may play up, but regardless of grade you cannot play below your age or birth year.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 13:58:15 GMT -5
I have two daughters and two nieces that are close to the same age Younger niece and younger Daughter - born 11 months apart (Sept - Aug), in the same grade Older daughter and other niece - born five months apart (April - Sept) in different grades All play in different age levels for club (11, 12, 13, 14). Wierd Be thankful USAV is not like AAU Basketball I went to a tournament and saw 7th and 8th grade teams from around the country and all the top teams had at least 2 players that had reclassified (repeated a grade or two) so they were able to be 14 or 15 and still play on a 7th grade team competing against 13 year olds. The same thing was prevalent on the top 8th grade teams I saw......15 and 16 year old players that had reclassified one or two times and play against 14 year olds. This is allowed in AAU, but most states have rules for public High Schools and do not allow player to be 19 going into their senior years, so these players always go play for a private school (Findley Prep, Oak Hill, etc.) or Catholic schools (DeMatha, Gonzaga, etc.) because they do not have a specified age requirement, and when they are in mddle school they either home school after 13 or go to a private school that goes from 7-12 grade.....as long as you are enrolled and are on target to graduate you may play. I saw some unbelievable basketball for 7th and 8th grade with players ranging from 5'8 - 6'11", but at the same time I felt sorry for the teams that were comprised of only 13 yo for 7th grade and 14 yo for 8th grade. They had some height too, but they were just not physically or athletically mature enough to compete. I like how volleyball and soccer is set up for ages where if you are good enough you may play up, but regardless of grade you cannot play below your age or birth year. AAU basketball is at a whole different level.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 14:13:11 GMT -5
Be thankful USAV is not like AAU Basketball I went to a tournament and saw 7th and 8th grade teams from around the country and all the top teams had at least 2 players that had reclassified (repeated a grade or two) so they were able to be 14 or 15 and still play on a 7th grade team competing against 13 year olds. The same thing was prevalent on the top 8th grade teams I saw...... Or you fake the birth certificate to make your kid seem more advanced for their age, like Shabazz Muhammad. Or 12 14-year-old Danny Almonte in the LLWS about a decade or more ago.
|
|
|
Post by dgo on May 10, 2016 14:51:21 GMT -5
Unfortunately, some high school coaches bitterly resent any activity (e.g., club, HP, Nationals, camps, recruiting, etc.) that suggests that the HS coach and his/her program are not the top priority for a volleyball player. Most of the top HS coaches in our area also coach club, so HS and club are pretty complimentary without a lot of noticeable resentment. Same for our area, with special emphasis on the word " most." Unfortunately, we've got a lot of experience with a HS coach who bemoans that "club volleyball has ruined HS volleyball."
|
|
|
Post by BuckysHeat on May 10, 2016 15:09:25 GMT -5
For those that have put kids through the pipeline or those that have been involved in it, I have a question or two.
1) It looks like tryouts are the night before or the last evening of National Qualifiers plus a few other events, is this correct? 2) Looking at the girls future select, it costs $700 and is in Michigan, do the kids stay in a dorm? Or does the family have to fork out for a hotel as well for the players? 3) For objective parents who have done it, is this cost worth the week? Or are local specific camps that are much lower a better option?
Just trying to navigate my way through on the off hand chance that we consider something like this next year. I know, asking random people is not a great way to parent but there is experience and knowledge here that is can be very helpful
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 16:02:55 GMT -5
For those that have put kids through the pipeline or those that have been involved in it, I have a question or two. 1) It looks like tryouts are the night before or the last evening of National Qualifiers plus a few other events, is this correct? 2) Looking at the girls future select, it costs $700 and is in Michigan, do the kids stay in a dorm? Or does the family have to fork out for a hotel as well for the players? 3) For objective parents who have done it, is this cost worth the week? Or are local specific camps that are much lower a better option? Just trying to navigate my way through on the off hand chance that we consider something like this next year. I know, asking random people is not a great way to parent but there is experience and knowledge here that is can be very helpful 1 - Usually held the night before a Qualifier begins--if held at a Qualifier (not always the case) 2 - That includes dorm and food, as well as supervision and curfew. There's not a lot of down time for the athletes--it includes at least two gym-sessions/day as well as a classroom session. Parents are not permitted except at the evening sessions (but boy do they try...) 3 - Been in this situation--it depends on your kid and what she wants out of it and what you want out of it as a parent. Mine found it a great experience--it taught her that volleyball wasn't THAT important to her after all--which guided decisions for the rest of HS for her...completely worth it for her...just not in an expected way.
|
|
|
Post by vbfamily on May 10, 2016 16:10:36 GMT -5
For those that have put kids through the pipeline or those that have been involved in it, I have a question or two. 1) It looks like tryouts are the night before or the last evening of National Qualifiers plus a few other events, is this correct? 2) Looking at the girls future select, it costs $700 and is in Michigan, do the kids stay in a dorm? Or does the family have to fork out for a hotel as well for the players? 3) For objective parents who have done it, is this cost worth the week? Or are local specific camps that are much lower a better option? Just trying to navigate my way through on the off hand chance that we consider something like this next year. I know, asking random people is not a great way to parent but there is experience and knowledge here that is can be very helpful 1-Yes, tryouts are usually the night before or night after a qualifier, or some larger regions host their own separate tryout separated from the qualifiers. 2-Worth it for sure if your kid made the top group and/or just wants a great camp experience to meet volleyball players throughout the country. I like how they do future select now, lump all the girls together and separate levels as the camp goes along. Allows for the varied views of talent at the many tryouts to level out. The kids do stay in a dorm and eat usually at the dorm cafeteria. 3-My daughter wouldn't give up her HP experiences for anything, she has loved the training and developed great relationships with kids and coaches across the country that she sees at every qualifier we go to. However, if there is a college your daughter really wants to go to and she may be able to play that level some day, good to get her in front of the coaches early. I've had several college coaches tell me one of their first recruits in a class is a kid that has been coming to camp forever.
Unfortunately due to the cost of paying for HP, my daughter has never attended a college camp, but I used to work at various college camps and the level and focus of the HP kids is much better, (which leads to better training) and the opportunity to meet kids from all over the country is just phenomenal.
|
|
|
Post by sandman32 on May 10, 2016 16:13:05 GMT -5
For those that have put kids through the pipeline or those that have been involved in it, I have a question or two. 1) It looks like tryouts are the night before or the last evening of National Qualifiers plus a few other events, is this correct? 2) Looking at the girls future select, it costs $700 and is in Michigan, do the kids stay in a dorm? Or does the family have to fork out for a hotel as well for the players? 3) For objective parents who have done it, is this cost worth the week? Or are local specific camps that are much lower a better option? Just trying to navigate my way through on the off hand chance that we consider something like this next year. I know, asking random people is not a great way to parent but there is experience and knowledge here that is can be very helpful Make no mistake, the volleyball camps of USAV HP are the cash cow that feeds their machine. Without them we would lose to "insert name here" every year. Now with that said I'll answer your questions: 1.)Typically tryouts are the night before qualifiers start. 2.)The cost of the program covers all lodging costs, and except in a few instances where kids are required to bring their own lunch money, such as at the USAV HP Championship. all food is covered also. 3.)Now on to is it worth it... this is very much a subjective question so I will tell you my experience. My daughter has been on the FSNT, Select A1, Select Continental, and now Youth A1. She also attended the Holiday Camps for the past three years. We are one of the lemmings who feed the machine so that they can invite 24 kids to the YNT tryout for 12 spots. With that said, as a person and a player, the amount my daughter has grown since she entered the program was unimaginable when she entered. She was a meek, shy, inward, uncertain little girl. Now shes an outgoing confident young woman. The people she has met, and the friendships she has made with girls from all over the country, they have enriched her culturally in ways that would not have been possible or via situations that would have never presented themselves without being in the program. Her Volleyball IQ has significantly increased and put her understanding of the game well past most kids in our club, and possibly even some coaches. The pride that she carries with her in knowing that she's part of a select group of people who have ever put on a jersey which says USA on the back and represented her country. The calm confidence in which she approaches life. These things are irreplaceable. To me, the lucky man who gets to pay the bill for all of these opportunities she has to chase her dreams, the experience is priceless. Besides if I wasn't paying for the USAV HP experience I'd be paying for vacations to Maui, or the Caribbean, or somewhere.... which actually doesn't sound like a bad idea either. lol Maybe that's what I'll do once she's in college.
|
|
|
Post by BuckysHeat on May 10, 2016 18:26:34 GMT -5
Thank you all for your input, now we just have to get her there. Only 8 months of training until the next tryout
|
|