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Post by onfiya on May 23, 2015 17:54:06 GMT -5
I've known Ken as a colleague for over 8 years. Great person and great coach. So easy for people to hate on others with very little info. Not a good nature to have. Decades of volleyball, Please tell us about all of the "Great" things Ken does for people and his athletes. What makes him a "Great" person? We have quite a sizeable sampling of information to the contrary from the Real Sports expose and word of mouth stories about his interaction with his athletes; a repetitive pattern of un"Great" behavior over the last 5 years. Please fill us in, so we don't have "very little info"... And "slander"? The first defense against slander is the truth!
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Post by InTheKnow on May 23, 2015 22:15:49 GMT -5
I'm not here to defend anyone. Just can't stand the pile on of mindless people who build their reality on CNN/Fox news. Your perception of the man is not reality. That's all.
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Post by Vballin on May 23, 2015 22:29:03 GMT -5
I know a girl personally on the team and she told me how miserable she is with him as a coach. Don't know him myself, so I don't have my own opinion, just that she hates it.
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Post by Phaedrus on May 24, 2015 7:11:21 GMT -5
We jump in here, make judgements on coaches and players, all the while not knowing the personalities or the interactions involved. We make our choices based upon what we feel is the more compelling story, all of it colored by our own preferences and prejudices as well as how accessible and forthcoming each side is in delivering the story, their story. We are often manipulated, unconsciously, by the story teller and the circumstances. We also believe that which ever party between the two sides who are not as seemingly forthcoming as the other must be hiding something, and then our imagination runs wild with the possibility.
On this forum we tend to be quite judgmental and polarized, reflecting the ethos of our society these days. In stories of confrontations between players and coaches we inevitably choose sides. Coaches are inevitably characterized as: controlling, abusive, psychotic, ad nauseum; we come to those conclusions based on second, third, fourth hand reportage. Players are inevitably characterized as: spoiled, entitled, selfish, ad nauseum with the same reasoning. No doubt that there are abusive and demeaning coaches just as there are spoiled and lazy players. There are also situations that are somewhere in the middle. Quite often, a mismatch of communication styles is the main culprit. Coaches make recruiting decisions without consideration of the fit between their coaching style and the player's response to that style. Players make commitments while making the same lack of consideration, but that possibility is often dismissed out of hand.
As we examine this particular case, I see a repeat of the classic VT scenario: charges made, supporting evidence cited and amplified upon, defenders appear with general arguments about the integrity of the person being attacked, a series of thrust and parry ensues, and the whole affair degenerates into ad hominem attacks on the posters.
I think we can do better than that.
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Post by vbnerd on May 24, 2015 7:28:05 GMT -5
Three sides - I know the victim and they were wronged. I know the accused and they were wronged. I don't know anything but have an opinion anyway.
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Post by InTheKnow on May 24, 2015 9:25:04 GMT -5
I know a girl personally on the team and she told me how miserable she is with him as a coach. Don't know him myself, so I don't have my own opinion, just that she hates it. Same can be said for over 90% of coaches. Including Rose, Cook, Wise, Elliott. So....
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Post by Vballin on May 24, 2015 10:19:56 GMT -5
I know a girl personally on the team and she told me how miserable she is with him as a coach. Don't know him myself, so I don't have my own opinion, just that she hates it. Same can be said for over 90% of coaches. Including Rose, Cook, Wise, Elliott. So.... If true, that is pretty sad. If girls hate paying for 90% of the college coaches out there then the volleyball world needs a wake up call. My guess is that you way over exaggerated the comment you made. I also know many girls that love their coach and the volleyball program at their college. Maybe I should have clarified my comment more. She hates it as well as most of the girls on that team. Not just one girl. I get one girl being unhappy, maybe because of playing time, but when you have a large amount of girls feeling that way, then it might not be the girls with the problem.
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Post by owlsem on May 24, 2015 10:50:25 GMT -5
Same can be said for over 90% of coaches. Including Rose, Cook, Wise, Elliott. So.... If true, that is pretty sad. If girls hate paying for 90% of the college coaches out there then the volleyball world needs a wake up call. My guess is that you way over exaggerated the comment you made. I also know many girls that love their coach and the volleyball program at their college. Maybe I should have clarified my comment more. She hates it as well as most of the girls on that team. Not just one girl. I get one girl being unhappy, maybe because of playing time, but when you have a large amount of girls feeling that way, then it might not be the girls with the problem. Without any knowledge of Wake Forest or the coaches mentioned. The reality lies in the middle. Playing volleyball at a high level is demanding. Weights in the morning, eat, cram classes in, eat, practice and trainers room, eat, study sleep repeat except for away games where you are away for two to three days making life even harder to schedule and keep up with. Then there is a coach who is never satisfied, wants better defense, closer to target, better shot selection,tighter sets, better blocks, ad nauseam. I think it is fair to say most love the game but the process is hard, wears on the athlete and only when they are done can they see that it was fun and worth it. To be a great coach you have to push the athletes. In addition most of the athletes have always been the best player on their club and high school team. They can not understand why the coach who recruited them so hard is dissatisfied with their performance. Having more expected of them is a new experience. I have heard of bad coaches who are abusive and as a parent you have to get your kid away from them. Style can and does get out of line. But exhausted athletes that are not happy in a program, starters and subs are understandable to me and not necessarily damning of a coach.
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Post by FUBAR on May 24, 2015 12:17:44 GMT -5
Many of these players, and certainly the players in the HBO show, were recruited by the previous coach. It is possible that the previous coach and the current coach are very different in their styles. As Phaedrus said, it is very possible that the players from the previous regime are miserable just because of the difference in how the two coaches communicate. And yes, this can happen two jobs in a row.
I don't know any of the staffs at Wake or North Texas, but if the staff before Murczek was a nurturing, hand holding type staff they would recruit players that respond to that. If Murczek is a no nonsense, demanding type of coach the players from the previous coach might not be equipped to handle the new regime. I'm sure the players from the old regime would consider the new guy abusive. From their point of view he is.
Time will tell. Murczek was only at North Texas for 3 years. That may not have been enough time to get players with his kind of personality in there. He has been at Wake two years. If he is having the same issues 5 or 6 years from now, at that time people who are objective but not in their gym every day can make some reasonable guesses. Right now it's just too soon, and there are to many factors for anyone not in his program every day to reach legit conclusions.
There are people responsible for the well being of his players who are able to be in his gym/program every day. They haven't reached the conclusion that he is abusing his players. Hopefully they are right and this is just a clash of personalities. Tough time for all those involved, but whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger!
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Post by onfiya on May 24, 2015 21:24:23 GMT -5
When you call a young lady a "Fu@#ing Retard" you should be fired. It's not just a matter of the new recruits not meshing with his "style". It either didn't happen, and she's just making the whole thing up, or he should be fired. Plain and simple. Disgraceful use of language and lack of sensitivity on par with the SAE incident at OU.
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Post by BabyDuck on May 25, 2015 10:07:59 GMT -5
When you call a young lady a "Fu@#ing Retard" you should be fired. It's not just a matter of the new recruits not meshing with his "style". It either didn't happen, and she's just making the whole thing up, or he should be fired. Plain and simple. Disgraceful use of language and lack of sensitivity on par with the SAE incident at OU. I have to agree with you onfiya. IF that happened, there is no excuse for it. Degrading, offensive language like that goes beyond "pushing" the athletes. Personal attacks are unnecessary. The difficulty lies in proving some of these offenses. A situation I am all too familiar with is quite similar. We've been dealing with a HS coach who uses the same "coaching style." I too thought it was a regime change issue, as there were lots of complaints from returning members her first season as head coach. In season 2, she has been known to call them dipsh-ts, make fun of them on and off the court, use profanity to referees* and parents, etc. Coach said athletes' claims of this bad behavior were false and based on playing time, position changes and the like. * Yes, there was video evidence of some bad behavior in this case.5-6 families complained to the AD (and more) in year one. Coach was formally reprimanded 2 separate times, but kept her job. The following season, she cut 2 returning starters claiming they weren't good enough to be on her team. Now everyone is afraid of reporting her, as they know their daughters will be the next ones cut. Hundreds of good coaches out there, but a few bad ones always seem to slip through.
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Post by roadkill on May 26, 2015 16:00:10 GMT -5
I'm not here to defend anyone. Just can't stand the pile on of mindless people who build their reality on CNN/Fox news. Your perception of the man is not reality. That's all. Decades - Hypothetical...if there was video of this incident (F-ing Re*ard) would you consider that a fireable offense? Trying to discern between mindless piling on on an allegation vs actual proof of it.
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Post by BabyDuck on May 27, 2015 13:08:08 GMT -5
Does anyone have a link to this episode? Discussing it with someone, and they want to see.
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Post by FUBAR on May 27, 2015 21:23:33 GMT -5
Does anyone have a link to this episode? Discussing it with someone, and they want to see. As far as I can tell the only way to see it is on HBOGo. You need an HBO subscription.
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Post by BabyDuck on May 27, 2015 21:39:46 GMT -5
I think they tried that, but only other episodes are listed. That one is strangely missing.
Thanks!
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