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Post by onfiya on Jul 30, 2015 11:47:31 GMT -5
Is the world going crazy?? How is this even a discussion. I coach who sleeps with his players at any level should be banned immediately from coaching. A coach who sleeps with underage kids should be put in jail and obviously never coach again. Again, how is this a discussion. I'll add this to, A parent who puts her daughter with a coach who's a known sex offender should be banned from being a parent. Holy sh$t!!! Yep the world IS going crazy! Says the same guy that defends Wake Forest's Ken Murcsek! You yourself try to defend the undefendable. Rick and Ken are two peas in a pod. One is a sexual predator, the other a mental/emotional abuser. Two cowards that because of their own inadequacies, find a need to abuse young ladies, who are in a position of vulnerability. Makes them feel real powerful. There's no place for them or anyone like them in sports, but as long as the institutions they represent turn a blind eye and parents keep sending their kids in to the lion's den, nothing will change. You find good and bad people in all walks of life, but the fact that some are actually willing to stand up for these creeps and that there is no finite standard that is 100% non-negotiable by societal standards is the REAL issue. Our world is going crazy, and it's only going to get crazier and crazier!
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 30, 2015 12:20:39 GMT -5
The point that you are missing is that these situations can only exist for as long as they do because the perpetrator hides behind a veneer of respectability, as was the case with Bill Cosby, Sandusky or some Catholic priests. While it may seem reasonable for you to say "Worry about your own daughter and I'll worry about mine", the reality is that these people, and Butler as well, don't do these things to everyone--only the ones they select or target. Do you think Bucky missed the point? You framed it perfectly, priests, Sandusky, etc. We've seen many of these situations. It's widely understood today 90% of perpetrators are in a position of "trusted adult"...including unfortunately family. I don't think Bucky missed the point. I think he weighed the facts and is in a group that decided that it would be worth taking a risk with his daughters safety. As I mentioned at the outset of this thread, I don't find Butler, or SPRI particulary interesting. What I find extraordinary is that there are enough Bucky's out there that Butler's business was able to survive and thrive after this came out. decades summed it up for me: "Again, how is this a discussion. I'll add this to, A parent who puts her daughter with a coach who's a known sex offender should be banned from being a parent." Not only is Butler a rapist, but he is the leader of the club. Was no weight given to the risk of a reoccurance? Was there no thought and concern by prospective parents that the child protective policies and practices at this club may be lax or not enforced? How about the types he may hire? How thorough could the screening possibly be with a rapist at the top? What culture would your common sense expect? Baffling is the most pc word I can think of here. I don't need to spend time judging others, but when I try to imagine this same situation unfolding today in my backyard, it's disturbing to think it possible that a Butler could survive. The phrase is a polite way to engage the discussion. I understand that you might prefer to crusade on the subject, but what would make a bigger difference is if you actually changed people's understanding.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 12:29:10 GMT -5
Rick is a great guy and probably one of the best coaches in the world to play for. He runs one of the toughest and most successful clubs in the country. I know that this doesn't make what he did okay, but he also has done so much for the sport of volleyball. Pretty much starting up the JVA division and helping hundreds of girls get full scholarships to division 1 schools throughout the country. He not only trains volleyball, he trains work ethic and mentality. Players that go through spri change for the better and you have to see both sides to every story. Do you find it morally acceptable for a young 30's coach to have personal relations with teens at his club? Now we're changing the parameters of your fictional scenario to get the answer you want, eh? So sneaky.
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Post by dizzydean on Jul 30, 2015 12:44:02 GMT -5
Do you find it morally acceptable for a young 30's coach to have personal relations with teens at his club? Now we're changing the parameters of your fictional scenario to get the answer you want, eh? So sneaky. That WAS the scenario.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 12:48:45 GMT -5
Now we're changing the parameters of your fictional scenario to get the answer you want, eh? So sneaky. That WAS the scenario. How rare that you were present at the exact time and place of all alleged incidents...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 12:53:10 GMT -5
alleged incidents? is someone denying they happened? news to me.
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Post by truthandjustice on Jul 30, 2015 13:17:29 GMT -5
I hope every single one of you realize this important point: Rick Butler will NEVER take anybody to court over being called a "rapist" or "pedophile" because it would be PROVEN in court.
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Post by VBCOACH on Jul 30, 2015 13:44:41 GMT -5
Many current and past players have been giving support to Rick and his wife troughout all of the social media sites for example changing a profile picture to the sports performance logos or putting up pictures of teams and coaches and saying how much and what being a part of sports performance did for them They are the ones that he DIDN'T rape. I'll bet they wouldn't be supporting him if Rick had raped THEM!
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Post by VBCOACH on Jul 30, 2015 13:47:28 GMT -5
How rare that you were present at the exact time and place of all alleged incidents... Obviously, you don't accept the testimony of the three victims. In other words, you'll never believe Rick raped those girls unless YOU saw it with your own eyes?
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Post by onfiya on Jul 30, 2015 14:06:10 GMT -5
How rare that you were present at the exact time and place of all alleged incidents... Obviously, you don't accept the testimony of the three victims. In other words, you'll never believe Rick raped those girls unless YOU saw it with your own eyes? ...or maybe shhhhhhhhhh did see it with his own eyes, maybe he was there? Anybody ever seen shhhhhhhhhh and Butler at the same place, at the same time??? Hmmm
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Post by zenyada on Jul 30, 2015 14:09:37 GMT -5
Do you think Bucky missed the point? You framed it perfectly, priests, Sandusky, etc. We've seen many of these situations. It's widely understood today 90% of perpetrators are in a position of "trusted adult"...including unfortunately family. I don't think Bucky missed the point. I think he weighed the facts and is in a group that decided that it would be worth taking a risk with his daughters safety. As I mentioned at the outset of this thread, I don't find Butler, or SPRI particulary interesting. What I find extraordinary is that there are enough Bucky's out there that Butler's business was able to survive and thrive after this came out. decades summed it up for me: "Again, how is this a discussion. I'll add this to, A parent who puts her daughter with a coach who's a known sex offender should be banned from being a parent." Not only is Butler a rapist, but he is the leader of the club. Was no weight given to the risk of a reoccurance? Was there no thought and concern by prospective parents that the child protective policies and practices at this club may be lax or not enforced? How about the types he may hire? How thorough could the screening possibly be with a rapist at the top? What culture would your common sense expect? Baffling is the most pc word I can think of here. I don't need to spend time judging others, but when I try to imagine this same situation unfolding today in my backyard, it's disturbing to think it possible that a Butler could survive. The phrase is a polite way to engage the discussion. I understand that you might prefer to crusade on the subject, but what would make a bigger difference is if you actually changed people's understanding. I applaud your civility.....good luck persuading Bucky's, Bot's, Shhhhhh's, and the like to a new "understanding." As I've said, my rants have been for the purpose of diffusing a potentially dangerous message they create collectively. I've never deluded myself into thinking I could change their point of view. It won't change. So while a bit heavy handed in moments, imo the only "difference" one could reasonably expect to make here is to encourage participation through expressing outrage. Nobody's getting punched in the nose here. Emotion can be a good thing. We're talking about daughters, sex with minors / rape, youth sports, and directors of youth sports organizations. If not here, where? I'll utilize a softer side when appropriate.
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Post by texasvolleyball on Jul 30, 2015 14:21:17 GMT -5
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Post by pepperbrooks on Jul 30, 2015 14:40:23 GMT -5
How rare that you were present at the exact time and place of all alleged incidents... Were you there?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 15:05:09 GMT -5
Do you find it morally acceptable for a young 30's coach to have personal relations with teens at his club? Now we're changing the parameters of your fictional scenario to get the answer you want, eh? So sneaky. Yes, this is a different scenario from the one we discussed. Your synopsis was that all of the girls were at least 18, so my question to you was if you found it moral for a club coach to have personal relations with multiple 18-year-olds that just left his club, which you confirmed that you did. Jmd207 did not make the same assertion that they were all at least 18. That is why I phrased the question differently.
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Post by zenyada on Jul 30, 2015 15:15:26 GMT -5
Thank you. As mentioned, its everywhere. Butler and those that support him only send a message to potential perpetrators that you can get away with it. This is the danger, and it is real.
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