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Post by ay2013 on Oct 3, 2015 14:36:11 GMT -5
I'm not sure how saying me thinking Hawaii is good, which they are, is the same thing as commenting on their relative position in the polls. I never implied Hawaii was NOT good. My reply was specifically to this comment "What? The season has just started and you're writing Hawaii off. Hawaii is ranked #10 and climbing, and winning the title or at least making the final four is not farfetched." IMO how Hawaii is treated in the polls right now does NOT have a large correlation to their post season prospects. My reason for saying so is because Hawaii moves up in the polls because other teams are losing, not because Hawaii is winning big matches. This comment has nothing to do with whether or not I think that Hawaii is a good team or not. I think Hawaii IS good, I surely don't want to see them in the Washington regional, should we host again. If you lose you didn't win. Same thing with the opposite. If you win, you didn't lose. Hawaii moved up because other teams lost and because it won. Yes, it's that simple. It can be mind boggling to make sense of why Florida beat Texas, but lost to Hawaii, Missouri, Kentucky. Why Penn St lost. Why Stanford is ranked high but has not lived up to it. Eventually, you come a full circle and get enlightened like Buddha. I still think you are missing my point. I'll try to explain a bit better. The end argument is that Hawaii's AVCA ranking for much of the season isn't a reflection of the quality of their team good or bad because of the strength of other conferences relative to theirs. I happen to think they ARE a good team, but the mechanics of the poll doesn't truly reflect Hawaii's actual quality. Moving up the poll by winning against ranked teams is NOT the same as moving up in the poll because teams previously ranked above you lost. Think about it conversely. Hypothetically, if all the teams currently ranked above Hawaii only lose to teams currently ranked above Hawaii for the rest of the season, odds are that Hawaii would stay right where the are, right? However, that doesn't mean that Hawaii ISN'T better than those teams ranked above them, they just have no way to show it for most of the year, it's just the mechanics of the poll. I just don't think that Hawaii's sort of unique position as the best in the Big West translates into a ranking that is truly reflective of what they can do or how far they would advance in the tournament.
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Post by vup on Oct 3, 2015 14:53:25 GMT -5
Kadie Rolfzen hit .310 in the last 3 sets against PSU. If she can consistently play at that level, she's in the running. She can't even consistently play at a level good enough to keep her in the lineup - what gives you any indication she's going to consistently hit over .300? I'm only making the argument that she could be in the running.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 3, 2015 14:59:19 GMT -5
Results this early in conference play are highly spungible. After beating Stanford, many thought PSU should be inked (not just penciled in) for a spot in the Final, including many PSU fans). Well, maybe not. If Stanford, without Inky and with a one-armed Burgess, is merely average, what does that possibly say about PSU?
Hawaii beating Florida was rightly considered a huge upset at the time (and Hawaii did play VERY well), but also exposed weaknesses that other teams have since exploited. To keep their elation "top five" high, some Hawaii fans feel compelled to pump up UCLA to explain their loss to them, when in reality the Wahine were Dr. Jeckle in one and Mr. Hyde in the other. Ultimately, Hawaii didn't exploit UCLA's fatal weakness, which is serve-receive/passing, something UW did in spades last night.
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Post by volleyfan24 on Oct 3, 2015 15:10:15 GMT -5
Results this early in conference play are highly spungible. After beating Stanford, many thought PSU should be inked (not just penciled in) for a spot in the Final, including many PSU fans). Well, maybe not. If Stanford, without Inky and with a one-armed Burgess, is merely average, what does that possibly say about PSU? Hawaii beating Florida was rightly considered a huge upset at the time (and Hawaii did play VERY well), but also exposed weaknesses that other teams have since exploited. To keep their elation "top five" high, some Hawaii fans feel compelled to pump up UCLA to explain their loss to them, when in reality the Wahine were Dr. Jeckle in one and Mr. Hyde in the other. Ultimately, Hawaii didn't exploit UCLA's fatal weakness, which is serve-receive/passing, something UW did in spades last night. I almost agree with you. I think UCLA is solid they showed that the entire first set against UW. Washington still stands largely untested to date against what many would consider good competition. We will know more about whether Washington is contenders or pretenders after they play USC. I think that its almost anyones year. I wouldn't count out any teams just yet Florida included. Lots of teams look good but December is a ways away. As far as POY goes its Samantha Bricio's award to lose. She is carrying the weight of USC although the load has lightened as she is getting much needed help from other hitters.
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Post by Seahawks 1972 on Oct 3, 2015 16:04:29 GMT -5
FYI....Yes she does play on the left when Hawaii serves. Like I said she is not a true Opposite, if you seen more than one Hawaii game (And not clips) you would know this. I did watch those matches in their entirety earlier in the year, perhaps I just missed this hybrid OH/OPP playtime of Taylor. If so, my apologies. We try to confuse as many as possible no pilikia
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Post by scottysocc on Oct 3, 2015 16:24:12 GMT -5
Personally I think Bricio and Courtney are the best and second best players in the country. Bricio has always been good but this year she's really improved the weaker areas of her game. With her passing and blocking stronger this year she has really become an all around player. And don't even get me started on her backrow attacking, which is second to none.
It's pretty surprising to me Courtney has never received any All-American recognitions. I think part of that is just that she's played on such loaded teams that she has been overlooked. Now with Micha gone though, and with Courtney being a senior, it's her year to shine. I'd be shocked if she isn't first team AA this year. I do agree with others that sometimes her hitting effectiveness varies. Some games she looks like she could play for the US national team, other games she looks mediocre.
I think it's unfair that POY is based a lot on which teams make it to final four. It should be the best player of the year, regardless of how far her team advances.
As for who will be POY, I think if SC makes it to the final four Bricio almost has it on lock. Other candidates depending on how far their teams advance include Courtney, Ogbogu, and Washington.
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Post by pineapple on Oct 3, 2015 19:02:46 GMT -5
If you lose you didn't win. Same thing with the opposite. If you win, you didn't lose. Hawaii moved up because other teams lost and because it won. Yes, it's that simple. It can be mind boggling to make sense of why Florida beat Texas, but lost to Hawaii, Missouri, Kentucky. Why Penn St lost. Why Stanford is ranked high but has not lived up to it. Eventually, you come a full circle and get enlightened like Buddha. I still think you are missing my point. I'll try to explain a bit better. The end argument is that Hawaii's AVCA ranking for much of the season isn't a reflection of the quality of their team good or bad because of the strength of other conferences relative to theirs. I happen to think they ARE a good team, but the mechanics of the poll doesn't truly reflect Hawaii's actual quality. Moving up the poll by winning against ranked teams is NOT the same as moving up in the poll because teams previously ranked above you lost. Think about it conversely. Hypothetically, if all the teams currently ranked above Hawaii only lose to teams currently ranked above Hawaii for the rest of the season, odds are that Hawaii would stay right where the are, right? However, that doesn't mean that Hawaii ISN'T better than those teams ranked above them, they just have no way to show it for most of the year, it's just the mechanics of the poll. I just don't think that Hawaii's sort of unique position as the best in the Big West translates into a ranking that is truly reflective of what they can do or how far they would advance in the tournament. The point that you twisted was surfboy's who said basically that Nikki Taylor's chances of making POY will be good if Hawaii makes the final four. You countered with USC has a better chance, thus, Bricio over Taylor. That's irrelevant. Your reply in the above is directed to me. No, I did not miss your point. What I miss now, tho, is the emotion that originally came with it. You seem to tone things down.
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 3, 2015 19:43:54 GMT -5
I still think you are missing my point. I'll try to explain a bit better. The end argument is that Hawaii's AVCA ranking for much of the season isn't a reflection of the quality of their team good or bad because of the strength of other conferences relative to theirs. I happen to think they ARE a good team, but the mechanics of the poll doesn't truly reflect Hawaii's actual quality. Moving up the poll by winning against ranked teams is NOT the same as moving up in the poll because teams previously ranked above you lost. Think about it conversely. Hypothetically, if all the teams currently ranked above Hawaii only lose to teams currently ranked above Hawaii for the rest of the season, odds are that Hawaii would stay right where the are, right? However, that doesn't mean that Hawaii ISN'T better than those teams ranked above them, they just have no way to show it for most of the year, it's just the mechanics of the poll. I just don't think that Hawaii's sort of unique position as the best in the Big West translates into a ranking that is truly reflective of what they can do or how far they would advance in the tournament. The point that you twisted was surfboy's who said basically that Nikki Taylor's chances of making POY will be good if Hawaii makes the final four. You countered with USC has a better chance, thus, Bricio over Taylor. That's irrelevant. Your reply in the above is directed to me. No, I did not miss your point. What I miss now, tho, is the emotion that originally came with it. You seem to tone things down. Just we are so clear, the fact that Bricio plays for USC and Taylor for Higgins isn't the deciding factor for why Bricio, to date, is the leader for POY. As for the tone, I suppose, if you say so. But I wasn't ever attacking Hawaii, maybe you just took what i said a bit more personally? Anyway, I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about
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Post by WahineFan44 on Oct 3, 2015 19:48:32 GMT -5
The point that you twisted was surfboy's who said basically that Nikki Taylor's chances of making POY will be good if Hawaii makes the final four. You countered with USC has a better chance, thus, Bricio over Taylor. That's irrelevant. Your reply in the above is directed to me. No, I did not miss your point. What I miss now, tho, is the emotion that originally came with it. You seem to tone things down. Just we are so clear, the fact that Bricio plays for USC and Taylor for Higgins isn't the deciding factor for why Bricio, to date, is the leader for POY. As for the tone, I suppose, if you say so. But I wasn't ever attacking Hawaii, maybe you just took what i said a bit more personally? Anyway, I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about I agree. Bricio is BY FAR the front runner and If I was voting, I would vote for her. Girl has got game.
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Post by bballnut90 on Oct 3, 2015 21:54:18 GMT -5
As many others have iterated, it has t obe Bricio at this point. She is just dominating games, similarly to Karsta Lowe last year, but even more so when you consider her all around play. Offensively she has been an absolute monster, she dominates the service line, and she also has been the centerpiece of a USC team that has a great shot to be #1 on Monday.
Courtney is a strong candidate as well, she might be the most complete player in collegiate volleyball. Her passing, defense and blocking are as good as any other OH's in the nation, and she is an outstanding attacker, although not a consistently dominant hitter ala Bricio. Her arm swing is textbook and she is a tremendous 2nd setter. She's not dominant like Bricio, but she is the best all around player in the country.
Lauren Carlni is probably the best player in the country when you look at how polished she is, but her team isn't good enough for her to be a POY candidate at this point. Wisconsin will continue to improve, and she was fantastic against Illinois this weekend so she will continue to be the nation's standout setter.
Haleigh Washington has been the nation's top middle at this point--very good as a blocker, and truly deadly on the slide. Ogbogu has been phenomenal as well.
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Post by Cubicle No More ... on Oct 3, 2015 22:24:14 GMT -5
FYI....Yes she does play on the left when Hawaii serves. Like I said she is not a true Opposite, if you seen more than one Hawaii game (And not clips) you would know this. I did watch those matches in their entirety earlier in the year, perhaps I just missed this hybrid OH/OPP playtime of Taylor. If so, my apologies. it comes and goes, so it might be easy to miss. but on occasion, taylor is called upon to pass. so in most cases, she plays the traditional opposite role, but at times is a passing RS.
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Post by ohi87 on Oct 3, 2015 22:36:50 GMT -5
I watch as many Wahine matches as I can, and I don't ever recall seeing Nikki pass from the left. She's too valuable hitting the D ball, and Kahakai (as do almost all liberos) plays left. I think ay2013 is right in that Nikki is a true OPP. Her blocking stats vs. other true OH who don't see as many kill attempts blocking the weak-sde, is a giveaway. Not taking anything away from Nikki as she is brilliant at what she does. I hope Hawai'i goes deep in the tourney so the rest of the country can see what she does for this team.
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Post by surfboy on Oct 3, 2015 23:49:37 GMT -5
I watch as many Wahine matches as I can, and I don't ever recall seeing Nikki pass from the left. She's too valuable hitting the D ball, and Kahakai (as do almost all liberos) plays left. I think ay2013 is right in that Nikki is a true OPP. Her blocking stats vs. other true OH who don't see as many kill attempts blocking the weak-sde, is a giveaway. Not taking anything away from Nikki as she is brilliant at what she does. I hope Hawai'i goes deep in the tourney so the rest of the country can see what she does for this team. ohi87 Taylor plays right twice, left once. When on the left and Hawaii is serving she stays there almost always its a hybrid type of role and therefore not a true opposite. I second though that I may sou d like a homer but I hope come tourney time UH has the same momentum they have going now.
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Post by ohi87 on Oct 4, 2015 0:08:04 GMT -5
surfboy I don't know, I don't think so. The only time I recall Nikki staying on the left while Higgins was serving was against Florida when they needed her there to stop Holston. The only other time Nikki ever swings and blocks on the left is during the serve-receive. I went back and looked at their games (luckily Higgins is the first to rotate into the serve position) and Nikki always goes OPP. The one exception being the match against Florida.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 0:18:25 GMT -5
She can't even consistently play at a level good enough to keep her in the lineup - what gives you any indication she's going to consistently hit over .300? I'm only making the argument that she could be in the running. Right - I think anyone who can consistently hit .310 would be in the running - but you have to be on the court, first. Everyone who is in their team's lineup consistently has a better shot at hitting .310 consistently than someone who isn't on the floor. Kadie was pulled again tonight. I've watched Nebraska three times this season, and all three times Kadie has been benched at least part of the match. I'm guessing our National Player of the Year this season won't be someone who gets replaced midway through matches multiple times. Typically the NPOY proves herself to have been vital in keeping her team together.
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