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Post by elevationvb on Oct 4, 2015 9:57:26 GMT -5
Rutgers was very successful in football, they were 9-3 in 2012-13, 8-1 the year before. Outside of football and men's basketball, everything else is niche in college athletics. Very true. And, you're right, Rutgers had that period with Schiano (sp?) when they were really on an upswing. The B1G was probably hoping that could be sustained to some degree. Rutgers was a pure marketing decision based on the television market footprint and its impact on the Big 10 Network and future revenues for the conference.
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Post by Pirate VB Fan on Oct 8, 2015 8:56:18 GMT -5
Please, do not tar all of the Power 5 conferences with the (increasingly misnamed) Big Ten brush.
When the PAC-10 added two new members it was very interesting to see the remarks by the University Presidents who were the ones actually voting (not the Athletic Directors). They were very concerned (at least in public) about the "fit" of any prospective members. BYU had three big strikes against them ( 1) not a research institution, 2) private [despite USC and Stanford - they are grandfathered in] and 3) Religious institution) and several President's indicated there was no way they would vote for such an outlier. Texas had only one strike against them and it was a deal breaker - they were greedy SOBs. They met the criteria as being a public, research institution (and the TV markets would have been great) but the Longhorn Network was too much to overcome.
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 8, 2015 9:39:55 GMT -5
Please, do not tar all of the Power 5 conferences with the (increasingly misnamed) Big Ten brush. When the PAC-10 added two new members it was very interesting to see the remarks by the University Presidents who were the ones actually voting (not the Athletic Directors). They were very concerned (at least in public) about the "fit" of any prospective members. BYU had three big strikes against them ( 1) not a research institution, 2) private [despite USC and Stanford - they are grandfathered in] and 3) Religious institution) and several President's indicated there was no way they would vote for such an outlier. Texas had only one strike against them and it was a deal breaker - they were greedy SOBs. They met the criteria as being a public, research institution (and the TV markets would have been great) but the Longhorn Network was too much to overcome. Yes, the PAC is pretty open about their criteria. They want non-religious, top-level research universities. And they are not willing to compromise on their revenue sharing and TV marketing arrangements.
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Post by hawaiifan808 on Oct 8, 2015 11:30:33 GMT -5
For whatever reason hawaii fits perfectly well in the Big West. Although it's not a big conference like the Pac12 or Big10, Hawaii is just fine playing on the west coast (California) which is near to being "right at home." Even though $$$ is of an issue a school who wants to take a trip to Hawaii and play is by all means welcome, if they don't want to, then who cares. Hawaii in "my eyes" manages to produce their own local products such as their own "very informed" commentators, good sports matches and etc, who cares about the mainland media, majority of their commentators and coverages of the volleyball sport comes no where near hawaiis own. Hawaii is just fine to put it. If another conference wants Hawaii then they'll ask, but if they don't then who cares. We're fine with our lovely weather, rather be in the sun and breeze instead of being tormented by harsh weather conditions. Remember "Winter is Coming"
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Post by gouci on Oct 8, 2015 13:45:32 GMT -5
How do schools change conferences?
It probably involves stabbing your old conference in the back in one way or another! Hahahahaha
Look at all the teams that left the WAC and what happened to that conference.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Oct 8, 2015 15:05:46 GMT -5
You just go up to the conference and say, "I break with thee. I break with thee. I break with thee." And then you throw dog poop on their shoes.
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 8, 2015 15:24:10 GMT -5
You are correct, I should have provided facts so I could be a bit more fair to my Ohana brethren. Hawaii's academics are ranked 161, tied with Biola, Immaculata, and LaVerne University. I've never heard of two of them. Their TV market is 72, roughly tied with Ames, Iowa. Their athletic department is ranked 101, just behind Dayton and slightly ahead of Buffalo. No conference, much less a power 5 conference will be attracted by those attributes. Their location, although is beautiful, is unappealing for any team to travel a minimum of 5 hours and a $500 air ticket, not to mention food and hotels on the island. The fan base is marginal in terms of attendance and there is no recruiting base that would attract teams wanting to play there for recruits. How are those for FACTS? I will await your intelligent conversation. Academics: 161 out of 415. Could be worse. TV Market: 72 is better than 76 (Nebraska), 85 (Wisconsin) Athletic Department: Ranked 65, only behind a handful of schools NOT in the Power 5. Location: This is a legitimate reason for smaller schools, but really, once a year to travel to Hawai'i is gonna break these bigger schools budgets!? From WA to HI it's $418. From WA to AZ it's $240. $178 difference, whoop-tee-doo, they could save that by not giving all of their players new shoes!! Fan Base: Of course "in terms of attendance" we wouldn't compare nationally, there are only 375,000 people in Honolulu versus nearly double that for most Power 5 schools. But have you been in the Stan Sheriff Center and Aloha Stadium? Ya'll can argue about stats and rankings all day long, but the only fact that is relevant is that IF Hawaii wanted in to a power 5 conference and IF that power 5 conference wanted Hawaii, they would be in a power 5 conference. End of discussion.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Oct 8, 2015 15:33:07 GMT -5
Academics: 161 out of 415. Could be worse. TV Market: 72 is better than 76 (Nebraska), 85 (Wisconsin) Athletic Department: Ranked 65, only behind a handful of schools NOT in the Power 5. Location: This is a legitimate reason for smaller schools, but really, once a year to travel to Hawai'i is gonna break these bigger schools budgets!? From WA to HI it's $418. From WA to AZ it's $240. $178 difference, whoop-tee-doo, they could save that by not giving all of their players new shoes!! Fan Base: Of course "in terms of attendance" we wouldn't compare nationally, there are only 375,000 people in Honolulu versus nearly double that for most Power 5 schools. But have you been in the Stan Sheriff Center and Aloha Stadium? Ya'll can argue about stats and rankings all day long, but the only fact that is relevant is that IF Hawaii wanted in to a power 5 conference and IF that power 5 conference wanted Hawaii, they would be in a power 5 conference. End of discussion. The discussion can't end if people are still commenting. The UH Board of Regents already explored the possibility for UH joining the PAC, it's not feasible for either side. End of discussion.
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 8, 2015 15:46:05 GMT -5
Please, do not tar all of the Power 5 conferences with the (increasingly misnamed) Big Ten brush. When the PAC-10 added two new members it was very interesting to see the remarks by the University Presidents who were the ones actually voting (not the Athletic Directors). They were very concerned (at least in public) about the "fit" of any prospective members. BYU had three big strikes against them ( 1) not a research institution, 2) private [despite USC and Stanford - they are grandfathered in] and 3) Religious institution) and several President's indicated there was no way they would vote for such an outlier. Texas had only one strike against them and it was a deal breaker - they were greedy SOBs. They met the criteria as being a public, research institution (and the TV markets would have been great) but the Longhorn Network was too much to overcome. I'd bet my last dollar that IF there was an institution with the athletic, academic, and economic (tv market and alumni support) profile on par with USC or Stanford wanting in to the Pac 12, they would waive that whole only public rule.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 8, 2015 16:13:57 GMT -5
Please, do not tar all of the Power 5 conferences with the (increasingly misnamed) Big Ten brush. When the PAC-10 added two new members it was very interesting to see the remarks by the University Presidents who were the ones actually voting (not the Athletic Directors). They were very concerned (at least in public) about the "fit" of any prospective members. BYU had three big strikes against them ( 1) not a research institution, 2) private [despite USC and Stanford - they are grandfathered in] and 3) Religious institution) and several President's indicated there was no way they would vote for such an outlier. Texas had only one strike against them and it was a deal breaker - they were greedy SOBs. They met the criteria as being a public, research institution (and the TV markets would have been great) but the Longhorn Network was too much to overcome. I'd bet my last dollar that IF there was an institution with the athletic, academic, and economic (tv market and alumni support) profile on par with USC or Stanford wanting in to the Pac 12, they would waive that whole only public rule. I think the public-only rule is actually a "secular-only" rule and that basically rules out all of the privates out West.
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Post by HawaiiVB on Oct 8, 2015 17:37:22 GMT -5
I don't know if this has been discussed before, I searched the boards for it but nothing turned up. Obviously I'm thinking about Hawai'i as I ask this. They've always been in conferences with, at best, two other decent teams and it really hurts them come post-season. I'm sure they've thought of ways to get into a better conference, just curious as to why it doesn't happen. sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5907111 will answer a lot of your questions. Football is the short and long answer. There is a reason Texas almost joined the Pac-10 and Boise State joined the Big East, all about football. Hawaii is 72nd tv market, right above Toledo. Adding Hawaii to Pac-12 makes zero sense, unless the cord cutting really takes off, who knows what will happen. Well if I was smarter I would say Hawai'i would bring a wider TV audience in a more modern way...the Asian and Poly TV Markets who adore Hawai'i will bring in a lot of revenue to the conference if it is to be explored. Like the new methods of adding DVR use to the Neilsen TV Rating to rate TV shows or the way Basic Cable TV Shows and premium TV shows are also rated within its own format, not to mention the new addition of internet based TV show productions like ONTNB or House of Cards also brings in market share from a non traditional format, Hawai'i and its intangibles can offer unique means to expand on market shares to a power conference. I say give them the chance and see how it goes.
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Post by HawaiiVB on Oct 8, 2015 17:41:42 GMT -5
sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5907111 will answer a lot of your questions. Football is the short and long answer. There is a reason Texas almost joined the Pac-10 and Boise State joined the Big East, all about football. Hawaii is 72nd tv market, right above Toledo. Adding Hawaii to Pac-12 makes zero sense, unless the cord cutting really takes off, who knows what will happen. Well if I was smarter I would say Hawai'i would bring a wider TV audience in a more modern way...the Asian and Poly TV Markets who adore Hawai'i will bring in a lot of revenue to the conference if it is to be explored. Like the new methods of adding DVR use to the Neilsen TV Rating to rate TV shows or the way Basic Cable TV Shows and premium TV shows are also rated within its own format, not to mention the new addition of internet based TV show productions like ONTNB or House of Cards also brings in market share from a non traditional format, Hawai'i and its intangibles can offer unique means to expand on market shares to a power conference. I say give them the chance and see how it goes. With that being said, Hawai'i can provide a far more reach when it comes to recruiting from those mentioned markets as well as additional cross marketing revenue because of Hawai'i's appeal to those markets.
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 8, 2015 19:12:38 GMT -5
I'd bet my last dollar that IF there was an institution with the athletic, academic, and economic (tv market and alumni support) profile on par with USC or Stanford wanting in to the Pac 12, they would waive that whole only public rule. I think the public-only rule is actually a "secular-only" rule and that basically rules out all of the privates out West. Cal Tech is one of the top research universities in the world, on the West Coast, and secular. Too bad they are D3 because otherwise they would be a great fit! (Well other than that their entire undergrad enrollment is smaller than many high schools.)
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 8, 2015 19:35:51 GMT -5
I'd bet my last dollar that IF there was an institution with the athletic, academic, and economic (tv market and alumni support) profile on par with USC or Stanford wanting in to the Pac 12, they would waive that whole only public rule. I think the public-only rule is actually a "secular-only" rule and that basically rules out all of the privates out West. The secular only is certainly a good rule. Universities are for advancement in education and research, not praying.
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Post by vbcoltrane on Oct 8, 2015 21:40:08 GMT -5
I think the public-only rule is actually a "secular-only" rule and that basically rules out all of the privates out West. The secular only is certainly a good rule. Universities are for advancement in education and research, not praying. Think of all the major comprehensive Catholic universities in this country. While they may require a religion class or two, there's heck of a lot more than praying going on - in fact, in many of the schools, it's mainly secular-based education and research. Obviously, there are super-religious schools, but, come on, to paint all schools with a broad stroke is pretty unfair. Don't plenty of non-religious or not-that-religious people attend schools like Georgetown, Boston College, DePaul, SLU, St. Johns, just to name a very few (and I only named Catholic schools). I always though the "issue" with BYU wasn't simply that it was religious, but because that particular religion forbade playing on Sunday, which creates quite the scheduling hassle for many sports. If it was simply an LDS school with no playing prohibitions, I don't think the religious nature of the school would matter.
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