|
Post by dadovball on Dec 10, 2015 9:38:33 GMT -5
Sting website lists two add'l MB's on the 18's roster, i think both are from Middleton. If it is true that Sting nabbed those two Middleton MB's, then height wise Sting is huge. Talked to one of the parents from that team - Sting 18s did get the two Middleton middles, one is still injured.
|
|
|
Post by 1before2 on Dec 10, 2015 13:15:08 GMT -5
If it is true that Sting nabbed those two Middleton MB's, then height wise Sting is huge. Talked to one of the parents from that team - Sting 18s did get the two Middleton middles, one is still injured. But both are listed on the roster, so in time they'll both be available
|
|
|
Post by Lineshot24 on Dec 12, 2015 21:30:57 GMT -5
Poor Southport Dad. MVC 16s clearly better than Southport 16s. Their lack of height is going to hurt at these higher levels. Can get away with it a little at 15s. At 16s barely. Going forward they will struggle. MVC 16s are huge. There is a ton of untapped potential in that team. Should be exciting going forward
|
|
|
Post by dadovball on Dec 21, 2015 15:44:29 GMT -5
It seems that not one of the D-1 caliber players on MVC 18s has yet to align to a D-1/2 program (checked briefly on their site and checked out middle hitter). Come on MVC, and Sting too for that matter-it looks like you only have 2 players that have committed, get to work and promote your players. Find another four years for some of the kids that have helped build your program (Sting, I will cut you a little slack here given your 15 month existence). There is next level talent at Lake Country this year too. I am sick of seeing average Sports Performance players figure out a way to get on a college team.
|
|
|
Post by coy on Dec 21, 2015 15:57:40 GMT -5
It seems that not one of the D-1 caliber players on MVC 18s has yet to align to a D-1/2 program (checked briefly on their site and checked out middle hitter). Come on MVC, and Sting too for that matter-it looks like you only have 2 players that have committed, get to work and promote your players. Find another four years for some of the kids that have helped build your program (Sting, I will cut you a little slack here given your 15 month existence). There is next level talent at Lake Country this year too. I am sick of seeing average Sports Performance players figure out a way to get on a college team. spri has something that just about every other program in the entire midwest does not, and it is something that is absolutely required unless you are 6'10" and athletic...it's called ball control. it's why you see clubs like ultimate competing for medals in open at nationals every year at every age division, but then see 95% of them go to carthage college. and the 5% of those players do go to d1/2 programs? you guessed it, 6'10", athletic middles who don't know how to swing cross body until they get to college.
almost all non-middle midwest kids who go to d1/2 colleges walk on at whatever school they so choose, and most of them end up quitting by their junior year because it's a GIANT dedication with little payoff. no scholarship money, no playing time, and spending a ton of time away from their studies.
there is no d1/2 talent on lake country. if there are kids who want to walk on at loyola, lewis, quincy, ball state, or ipfw they will be welcomed along with the other 15 walk ons they will take on their roster, but they won't travel with the team, etc. in this case, it's up to the player himself to market himself to those schools and send videos of their play, contact the coaches, etc. the same goes for mvc and for the players outside of shews and stadick on sting, and those 2 are already committed to play.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2015 16:27:51 GMT -5
It seems that not one of the D-1 caliber players on MVC 18s has yet to align to a D-1/2 program (checked briefly on their site and checked out middle hitter). Come on MVC, and Sting too for that matter-it looks like you only have 2 players that have committed, get to work and promote your players. Find another four years for some of the kids that have helped build your program (Sting, I will cut you a little slack here given your 15 month existence). There is next level talent at Lake Country this year too. I am sick of seeing average Sports Performance players figure out a way to get on a college team. I guess if you are talking about the average players on Sports Performance's 5th, 6th or even 7th level teams.
Hahaha. This made my day. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by jmd207 on Dec 21, 2015 16:37:26 GMT -5
It seems that not one of the D-1 caliber players on MVC 18s has yet to align to a D-1/2 program (checked briefly on their site and checked out middle hitter). Come on MVC, and Sting too for that matter-it looks like you only have 2 players that have committed, get to work and promote your players. Find another four years for some of the kids that have helped build your program (Sting, I will cut you a little slack here given your 15 month existence). There is next level talent at Lake Country this year too. I am sick of seeing average Sports Performance players figure out a way to get on a college team. spri has something that just about every other program in the entire midwest does not, and it is something that is absolutely required unless you are 6'10" and athletic...it's called ball control. it's why you see clubs like ultimate competing for medals in open at nationals every year at every age division, but then see 95% of them go to carthage college. and the 5% of those players do go to d1/2 programs? you guessed it, 6'10", athletic middles who don't know how to swing cross body until they get to college.
almost all non-middle midwest kids who go to d1/2 colleges walk on at whatever school they so choose, and most of them end up quitting by their junior year because it's a GIANT dedication with little payoff. no scholarship money, no playing time, and spending a ton of time away from their studies.
there is no d1/2 talent on lake country. if there are kids who want to walk on at loyola, lewis, quincy, ball state, or ipfw they will be welcomed along with the other 15 walk ons they will take on their roster, but they won't travel with the team, etc. in this case, it's up to the player himself to market himself to those schools and send videos of their play, contact the coaches, etc. the same goes for mvc and for the players outside of shews and stadick on sting, and those 2 are already committed to play.
Not sure how you could say spri players receive no playing time in college when 6 of the starters from the championship match last year played for spri...
|
|
|
Post by coy on Dec 21, 2015 16:45:18 GMT -5
spri has something that just about every other program in the entire midwest does not, and it is something that is absolutely required unless you are 6'10" and athletic...it's called ball control. it's why you see clubs like ultimate competing for medals in open at nationals every year at every age division, but then see 95% of them go to carthage college. and the 5% of those players do go to d1/2 programs? you guessed it, 6'10", athletic middles who don't know how to swing cross body until they get to college.
almost all non-middle midwest kids who go to d1/2 colleges walk on at whatever school they so choose, and most of them end up quitting by their junior year because it's a GIANT dedication with little payoff. no scholarship money, no playing time, and spending a ton of time away from their studies.
there is no d1/2 talent on lake country. if there are kids who want to walk on at loyola, lewis, quincy, ball state, or ipfw they will be welcomed along with the other 15 walk ons they will take on their roster, but they won't travel with the team, etc. in this case, it's up to the player himself to market himself to those schools and send videos of their play, contact the coaches, etc. the same goes for mvc and for the players outside of shews and stadick on sting, and those 2 are already committed to play.
Not sure how you could say spri players receive no playing time in college when 6 of the starters from the championship match last year played for spri... that's why I said spri has something no other midwest clubs have, ball control. i was saying they're the only program who trains their non-middles for the next level, and the middles outside of spri get looks simply based on size and athleticism.
|
|
|
Post by dadovball on Dec 22, 2015 13:19:53 GMT -5
First, Merry Christmas to all and a sincere thanks to everyone who works to organize clubs and coach our sons so they can play the game they love.
There actually is D1/D2 talent on Lake Country, but my claim was "next level" talent, which there is for sure. Don't fault the kids and the parents because they have not figured out how to promote themselves/their son. Was Jared Abbrederis D1 football talent? Wasn't he a walk on? Dude, if you can walk on to a D1/2 program and your name appears on the web site roster, guess what, the coach just decided that you are D1/2 talent. There are more than a couple kids on that LC team who are good enough to get their name on a roster.
But, to your point, there is no athletic scholarship money. There is academic $ and financial aid, which you can get without playing volleyball, but is easier to get if you do. There really isn't any athletic scholarship money for even the best players. A 50% scholarship to any school this side of BYU is probably more expensive than Wisconsin - a great school. So why would you pay more, to have the distraction of a volleyball program to attend what ends up more times than not being a lesser school?
For any parents (or club directors who really do care about the boys) reading this, have your son focus on grades, then use volleyball to get into a school that otherwise would not look at them. Get admitted, get financial aid and academic scholarships, and then decide sophomore and junior year weather the 30+ hours a week playing organized volleyball is worth it, or if, at this point in their lives, reallocating those 30+ hours will better enable them to provide a better life for them and their future family. Plenty of really good players drop out because they get a killer internship and have just as much fun playing club volleyball for the school.
Volleyball skills and great grades are a great way to get into the Loyolas, Harvards and Stanfords. Some of the schools in the Carolinas that you have never heard of are really great schools, that cost an arm and a leg, unless the volleyball program wants you. If your son is merely a good volleyball player vs. great, with the program's help, financial and academic aid is directed at your son, cause there isn't any athletic $ handed out to merely good players. Good luck getting into Princeton, unless the coach walks over to admissions and says, "Could you give me a quick verdict. Will you admit this recruit or not?"
And, it is absolutely the responsibility of the club to help interested parties find a college. The reason AAU basketball exists is, in part, to funnel boys to college programs, none of it starts with the high school, the parent, or for goodness sake the players. To say it is up to a 17 year old boy to market himself is goofy, but understandable if you don't know 17 year old boys very well. Most have a hard time verbally asking, not texting asking, a girl they know on a proper date, much less promoting themselves to a college program. I'll say it again, it is the responsibility of the club, specifically the MVCs and the Stings of the world, to develop relationships with the programs, D1, D2, NAIA and D3 and to actively promote their players. Especially when they tout next level success on their website. If it really is the responsibility of the players and their families, then the clubs should not claim success (on the website, sitting in the stands at a high school tournament or when you are out drinking on the weekend) when alumni do have success getting a roster spot at the next level. I think the folks who run the clubs agree with me on this.
The goal of my rant is two fold. Volleyball is a great sport, and can open doors for the boys who love it and play it well. And it is absolutely the responsibility of the club to do everything they can to help the 15, 16, 17 and 18 year olds to find a college that fits their life and volleyball desires.
On SPRI - here is what they do well: 1) They do show the boys what participation in a college program will be like, for some, playing in college is actually less of a commitment than SPRI 2) With the physical strength and conditioning, they show colleges who will be ready for college demands, physically and mentally. Kids literally wash out of the program because they were not blessed with durable bodies, they know it and the colleges know it 3) They weed the "I like to play volleyball" from the "I love to play volleyball". There are few "I like to play volleyball" players who will go through the commitment required 4) They teach boys the skills of volleyball very well, as you'd hope when you have them for 20+ hours a week.
5) Here is the most important - SPRI knows how to communicate with next level programs, and how to promote SPRI players to get those next level spots.
So, kids who come out of SPRI are just as skilled as the CA kids, but with a better, Midwest, work ethic.
But, most of the kids don't improve in college as much as kids that come from less rigorous programs. So when I say an "average player", I mean just that, a really skilled 17/18 year old who will, at most, be an average player at the next level (which is a great accomplishment). What sickens me is that there are kids in Wisconsin with bigger upside that can't/don't get an honest look from the college programs. Congrats to the "average" SPRI player for getting the spot, and we in Wisconsin need to figure out how to better help our sons find a spot if they want one.
I think Sting approaches that SPRI level promotion and next level success on the girls side, and most of last year's MVC 18 1s team was planning to play in college, so it can happen. It just has not happened this year for the crop of 18s talent.
I predict that if any Wisconsin college or university started a D1/D2 program, it would be successful within 3 years because it would draw on Wisconsin talent that goes out of state or chooses to play club ball at UW and UW"insert extension here". It would also draw some kids from SPRI and other Chicagoland programs. Lewis and Loyola have, in large part, SPRI (and to some extent "North Shore" and good old West Allis Lightning) to thank for their success.
I love having free time around the holidays. Merry Christmas to all! And again a sincere thanks to everyone who works to organize clubs and coach our sons so they can play the game they love. Boys, thank your coaches, parents, support your organizations.
|
|
|
Post by coy on Dec 22, 2015 13:35:42 GMT -5
First, Merry Christmas to all and a sincere thanks to everyone who works to organize clubs and coach our sons so they can play the game they love. There actually is D1/D2 talent on Lake Country, but my claim was "next level" talent, which there is for sure. Don't fault the kids and the parents because they have not figured out how to promote themselves/their son. Was Jared Abbrederis D1 football talent? Wasn't he a walk on? Dude, if you can walk on to a D1/2 program and your name appears on the web site roster, guess what, the coach just decided that you are D1/2 talent. There are more than a couple kids on that LC team who are good enough to get their name on a roster. But, to your point, there is no athletic scholarship money. There is academic $ and financial aid, which you can get without playing volleyball, but is easier to get if you do. There really isn't any athletic scholarship money for even the best players. A 50% scholarship to any school this side of BYU is probably more expensive than Wisconsin - a great school. So why would you pay more, to have the distraction of a volleyball program to attend what ends up more times than not being a lesser school? For any parents (or club directors who really do care about the boys) reading this, have your son focus on grades, then use volleyball to get into a school that otherwise would not look at them. Get admitted, get financial aid and academic scholarships, and then decide sophomore and junior year weather the 30+ hours a week playing organized volleyball is worth it, or if, at this point in their lives, reallocating those 30+ hours will better enable them to provide a better life for them and their future family. Plenty of really good players drop out because they get a killer internship and have just as much fun playing club volleyball for the school. Volleyball skills and great grades are a great way to get into the Loyolas, Harvards and Stanfords. Some of the schools in the Carolinas that you have never heard of are really great schools, that cost an arm and a leg, unless the volleyball program wants you. If your son is merely a good volleyball player vs. great, with the program's help, financial and academic aid is directed at your son, cause there isn't any athletic $ handed out to merely good players. Good luck getting into Princeton, unless the coach walks over to admissions and says, "Could you give me a quick verdict. Will you admit this recruit or not?" And, it is absolutely the responsibility of the club to help interested parties find a college. The reason AAU basketball exists is, in part, to funnel boys to college programs, none of it starts with the high school, the parent, or for goodness sake the players. To say it is up to a 17 year old boy to market himself is goofy, but understandable if you don't know 17 year old boys very well. Most have a hard time verbally asking, not texting asking, a girl they know on a proper date, much less promoting themselves to a college program. I'll say it again, it is the responsibility of the club, specifically the MVCs and the Stings of the world, to develop relationships with the programs, D1, D2, NAIA and D3 and to actively promote their players. Especially when they tout next level success on their website. If it really is the responsibility of the players and their families, then the clubs should not claim success (on the website, sitting in the stands at a high school tournament or when you are out drinking on the weekend) when alumni do have success getting a roster spot at the next level. I think the folks who run the clubs agree with me on this. The goal of my rant is two fold. Volleyball is a great sport, and can open doors for the boys who love it and play it well. And it is absolutely the responsibility of the club to do everything they can to help the 15, 16, 17 and 18 year olds to find a college that fits their life and volleyball desires. On SPRI - here is what they do well: 1) They do show the boys what participation in a college program will be like, for some, playing in college is actually less of a commitment than SPRI 2) With the physical strength and conditioning, they show colleges who will be ready for college demands, physically and mentally. Kids literally wash out of the program because they were not blessed with durable bodies, they know it and the colleges know it 3) They weed the "I like to play volleyball" from the "I love to play volleyball". There are few "I like to play volleyball" players who will go through the commitment required 4) They teach boys the skills of volleyball very well, as you'd hope when you have them for 20+ hours a week. 5) Here is the most important - SPRI knows how to communicate with next level programs, and how to promote SPRI players to get those next level spots. So, kids who come out of SPRI are just as skilled as the CA kids, but with a better, Midwest, work ethic. But, most of the kids don't improve in college as much as kids that come from less rigorous programs. So when I say an "average player", I mean just that, a really skilled 17/18 year old who will, at most, be an average player at the next level (which is a great accomplishment). What sickens me is that there are kids in Wisconsin with bigger upside that can't/don't get an honest look from the college programs. Congrats to the "average" SPRI player for getting the spot, and we in Wisconsin need to figure out how to better help our sons find a spot if they want one. I think Sting approaches that SPRI level promotion and next level success on the girls side, and most of last year's MVC 18 1s team was planning to play in college, so it can happen. It just has not happened this year for the crop of 18s talent. I predict that if any Wisconsin college or university started a D1/D2 program, it would be successful within 3 years because it would draw on Wisconsin talent that goes out of state or chooses to play club ball at UW and UW"insert extension here". It would also draw some kids from SPRI and other Chicagoland programs. Lewis and Loyola have, in large part, SPRI (and to some extent "North Shore" and good old West Allis Lightning) to thank for their success. I love having free time around the holidays. Merry Christmas to all! And again a sincere thanks to everyone who works to organize clubs and coach our sons so they can play the game they love. Boys, thank your coaches, parents, support your organizations. First, merry Christmas to you.
Second, if you walk up to a Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, or other Ivy League coach and say, "My son doesn't have quite the grades he needs to get into your school, but he is really good at volleyball! What can you do to help him get into (Princeton, Stanford, Harvard, etc.)?!" They will respond, "Good luck getting into UCLA, BYU, UC Irvine, Loyola, etc." Stanford and the Ivy's do not make academic exceptions for student athletes...in any sport. Not just in volleyball. Student athletes must first be admitted into those schools in order for them to be accepted on to an athletic team.
Third, this isn't basketball. There aren't 350+ D1 teams with 13 full scholarships to hand out. This is men's volleyball, with roughly 40 teams with 3.5 scholarships to hand out. There's a big difference. The UCLAs and heck the Ball States of the world are looking at the best of the best in high school volleyball to recruit. If you aren't one of them, good luck getting some sort of attention from the D1/2 coaches without marketing yourself. And Sting and MVC coaches selling their 6'1" OH with little ball control but the ability to jump high and hit useless shots 6 inches over the net in hitting lines is only going to lose those coaches credibility with the college coaches when they are actually trying to sell their D1/2 worthy players. If you are a walk on type player you need to be the one marketing yourself or you will never get looks. Might suck to hear, but it's the way men's volleyball is. There is absolutely nothing wrong with walking on and fighting for playing time, but if you're walk on caliber, college coaches aren't running into gyms to catch your matches. They're accepting your recruiting videos because you put the time to put them together in and it can't hurt. Once you're in their gym there's nobody stopping you from going all out and making the coach give you playing time. And there's also nothing wrong with realizing that's not your dream scenario and choosing to focus solely on school, or going to a D3 or NAIA school, or playing club. Last year's 18s group had a lot of ambitious kids who loved the game of volleyball and sold themselves to every coach that would listen, and a lot now have the opportunity to play in college. Sounds like this year's 18s group doesn't have that same ambition, which is fine.
|
|
|
Post by midwestparent on Dec 22, 2015 14:35:06 GMT -5
D1/2 schools are looking for size and potential. A Trevor Novotny comes along once in while, but is a very rare case. The 6' pin hitters are not going to get a sniff from any D1/2 schools unless they can pass balls on a dime and would like to try out as a libero. Otherwise, there are some very good D3 schools with very good volleyball that would love to have that student athlete play for them. The SPRI players are not head and shoulders better than MVC or Sting, but may have better overall ball control and court IQ. Finally, if the D1/2 talent is there, the MVC and Sting coaches are doing what is needed to get their boys looked at. Stadick and Szews were scooped up pretty quick. Size matters.
|
|
|
Post by dadovball on Dec 22, 2015 17:09:21 GMT -5
I might be wrong, so I will spend an inordinate amount of time over the holidays looking at many of the 40 or so D1/D2 rosters, focusing on teams few of us have ever heard of, so I can prove to myself what I truly believe, that our kids from Wisconsin are really good, good enough to play for D1/D2 programs. I will commit to talking to as many parents who have more experience than me, and share my findings with the good folks on this forum. And, I will throw this out to the group cause I really don't know, but I did google them both... Wouldn't Stadick (National Team and round up to 7' tall) and Szews (Lefty right side - All Tournament team for the National A-1 team tournament and all tournament at 2015 JO instead of Stadick) be on SPRI's first team right now? And Novotny is a freak athlete, I don't know of any 6'1" pin hitters, even on Lake Country, unless you are talking about the 14s teams....and to all a good night!
|
|
|
Post by rogero1 on Dec 22, 2015 21:43:58 GMT -5
Look for any seniors from the great West Allis Lightning team that won two national championships that are left out there. Most of those guys (except for the Loyola & Lewis guys) have dropped out from playing or are playing collegiate club.
Wisconsin has a long history of producing great players, but the opportunities are few due to the limited number of men's programs.
UW-Oshkosh has won many men's club (NIRSA & NCVF) championships due to their WI guys staying in state.
UW-Milwaukee used to have a DI men's program before it got shut down in the '90's due to budget cuts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 22:30:33 GMT -5
Look for any seniors from the great West Allis Lightning team that won two national championships that are left out there. Most of those guys (except for the Loyola & Lewis guys) have dropped out from playing or are playing collegiate club. Wisconsin has a long history of producing great players, but the opportunities are few due to the limited number of men's programs. UW-Oshkosh has won many men's club (NIRSA & NCVF) championships due to their WI guys staying in state. UW-Milwaukee used to have a DI men's program before it got shut down in the '90's due to budget cuts. The only player from this year's college senior class's West Allis Lightning group that went to a D1/2 school to play volleyball and is no longer playing is Kyle Rohde, who started at Lewis and stopped playing to focus on his track career, where he is/was an All Conference triple jumper. Otherwise Novotny, Olson, and Hutz are still playing at Loyola (as you mentioned), Kaminski is still playing at an All Conference level at Stanford, Kirchner is still playing at USC, and Schneck and Michelau are still playing at Erskine.
|
|
|
Post by dadovball on Dec 23, 2015 10:28:35 GMT -5
thanks gr8 for the insight at the end of this post - and that is the model that WI clubs should copy - coach to independence at the individual level while promoting the heck out of the club brand and regularly reminding coaches who is available and interested. Maybe MVC and Sting teach the kids what THEY need to do to get looked at, and reach out to college programs regularly with a list of potential college players, I just have not heard of it.
That being said, don't doubt the helpfulness of the brand. When a kid reaches out to a program, using the guidance provided by SPRI saying, "I am an outside on SPRI Runbird....", I have to believe that e-mail is processed differently than an e-mail that goes something like, "I am the outside for MVC #2...or D-1.. or Adversity.... Being a product of SPRI (just being part of SPRI does more for the boys than any individual outreach on any one player's behalf from a SPRI coach) is important when these college coaches are putting their coaching career and quality of life in the collective hands of 18 year old men.
Add the individual time many SPRI players put in outside of official practice, and actual weekend play, and you get over 20 hours, not including travel time.
gr8 said: Having more than a handful of kids go through the SPRI program, as well as two other clubs, I will tell you that you are mistaken. SPRI sends out a list of available "uncommitted" players on a regular basis. However, they also teach the kids what THEY need to do to get looked at. All of my kids scholarships were either initiated by my child, OR a coach looking at SPRI teams. The kids themselves do a lot of the work. It also helps that college coaches regularly attend the GLPL and/or practices leading up to them. Like I have said, I have had kids in other clubs as well and out of all three, SPRI actually does the least, but that is because coaches are coming to them based off of what I said earlier.
|
|