dbeyr
High School
Posts: 10
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Post by dbeyr on Jul 25, 2016 22:17:38 GMT -5
I wonder what Tracey would say if she knew Christine Brigman Tuzi worked summer camps for Sports Performance at the same camps as Rick or that she had him to her house for family parties or that she went to his families home for parties (check out Cheryl Butler's FB) all years after her accusations? 1987-1990 all of these things occurred. Tracey might want to be careful who she supports.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jul 25, 2016 23:09:16 GMT -5
I wonder what Tracey would say if she knew Christine Brigman Tuzi worked summer camps for Sports Performance at the same camps as Rick or that she had him to her house for family parties or that she went to his families home for parties (check out Cheryl Butler's FB) all years after her accusations? 1987-1990 all of these things occurred. Tracey might want to be careful who she supports. That would not at all be uncommon behavior in this situation, particularly for someone still very young and coming to terms with abuse from an influential authority figure.
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dbeyr
High School
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Post by dbeyr on Jul 26, 2016 0:23:44 GMT -5
So different states, 20-22 years of age and contacts that person to work side by side at a camp, sitting arm and arm around his mom and sister with a huge smile on her face, really?
You might want to read what Tracey said when she would see her abuser in the neighborhood, now that is normal.
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Post by thegovernor on Jul 26, 2016 5:46:13 GMT -5
There are some inconsistencies in the Powers' lawsuit against AAU. In 1983 the AAU National Championships were held in Chicago and not in Los Angeles. Also, assuming all national championships (AAU, USAV, JVA, Asics, Festival, whatever) have been played during the summer months of May, June or July then Powers would have been 18 years old during the 1983 National Championships. She was born on February 22, 1965. Not a minor.
Just wondering if her lawyers are aware of these facts...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 8:30:29 GMT -5
I want to do my part to keep this thread at the top.
He slept with his players. He admitted it. It doesn't matter if they were of the age of consent because he abused his power as their coach to have sex with them. The fact that people still use the legal age of consent to disguise the nature of his abuse is baffling to me. IS it any less wrong to sleep with players when they are 15 or 18? No it isn't because in both scenarios he's still the coach and holds power. When you have power and you abuse athletes with it that's wrong. Apologists and defenders just don't seem to grasp that concept. This isn't about consent. In relationships where you don't have power you are not able to give consent. The power balance is too great to refuse. That's why they have laws that say the age of consent does not apply in cases where a relationship of power exists i.e. teacher/student, coach/athlete, etc.
Over the years the facts of what happened get retreaded and rehashed. It's too late to prosecute him for raping his athletes but justice can still be served. We need to remember what happened. Facts that Rick Butler does not dispute. We need to educate the growing volleyball public that this guy is still out there working with our kids.
In terms of suffering what has Rick Butler suffered through? He continues to coach volleyball and profit from his clubs. He hasn't been jailed and thanks to USAV has not been banned for life. IF the reappearance of this topic everytime it comes up is hurtful or damaging in anyway to his feelings or his psyche then that's a small price to pay for betraying the trust of your athletes. It pales in comparison to what the named and unnamed athletes he's abused go through. It's a lesson in our country's volleyball history a sad lesson in my opinion, but one that needs to be shared.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 8:36:35 GMT -5
dbeyr, swimrowvb, dukesbeachhouse, thegovernor,
Thank you for the graphic lesson in exactly why women are so often reluctant to pursue prosecution against their assailants and prefer to remain anonymous. Because of you, I have a small taste of the powerful fear and intimidation these women have been living under for 30 years, and better understand the courage it takes to come forward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 8:49:13 GMT -5
atomheartmother,
That is one of the things that really bugs me about discussions about Rick Butler, the implication that a coach using their power and influence to sleep with players once they are 18 is perfectly OK, meaning our daughters are fair game for sexual predators once we send them off to college.
I think the AVCA and the NCAA need to come out and strongly state that it is NEVER OK for a coach to "date" a player when the coach controls their scholarship, their playing time and their future in volleyball. It ought to clearly be a firable offense and get you kicked out of AVCA.
Most colleges have some such code of conduct for professors, and coaches have far more control over players than an individual professor.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 10:18:58 GMT -5
And I don't mean to diminish the damage or trauma done to the athletes. I wish more of them would speak up. I want them to know they are not alone and there are people they don't know that support them and their struggle.
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Post by insanebrain on Jul 26, 2016 10:38:31 GMT -5
I am new to all this and am fearful I may get slammed but here it goes…
I am wondering where the experts are in all this? A group of people rounding up other coaches, players and working together to understand how this historically came to be. Lets learn from what colleges are doing with sexual assault on campuses. There is definite progress there! Because a group of people gathered to make changes.
There are many coaches who have had relationships with players and married them. Fortunately, their stories are good ones. Even though inappropriate. They may give a perspective of understanding, the how and what today could of made a pause in their decision. In order to create rules, laws, regulations you have to assess first. Instead of rehashing, what is the appropriate plan for the future to protect kids or athletes under an organization or person of power? The 70' and 80's are certainly way different than today. There are too many different regulations from the different organizations that can be the same.
Victims should tell their story, Coaches should tell their stories, families and witnesses. Now, make changes and educate to make certain this doesn't occur again. Yes, we have to listen to those who acted to learn as well.
I am not a victim, I could never understand what that is like. Based on what I am hearing through all the stories, I would guess part of healing would be a change in how we operate here on out. If this was about getting together in a "safe" place for real dialogue, perhaps more victims would come forward.
If you want to go fast go alone…if you want to go far go together-stole that from Cory Booker.
Let the slamming begin…be nice I am just a rookie here.
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Post by dukesbeachhouse on Jul 26, 2016 10:39:57 GMT -5
dbeyr, swimrowvb, dukesbeachhouse, thegovernor, Thank you for the graphic lesson in exactly why women are so often reluctant to pursue prosecution against their assailants and prefer to remain anonymous. Because of you, I have a small taste of the powerful fear and intimidation these women have been living under for 30 years, and better understand the courage it takes to come forward. Haha. Typical response and labeling. I guess everyone needs to jump on the bandwagon. I am a female so your response is very ignorant. I like how I have never once said I agreed with Rick Butler and what happened 30 years ago. Just trying to get your facts straight and stop throwing around your twisted information. I guess we should blindly follow you and everyone else. That would probably make you happy. So keep this thread at the top. Keep posting it doesn't bother me anyways. Just get your facts straight. Please contact the USAV, AAU, NCAA, AVCA, JVA and all the other alphabet soup. Try to impact the area that SPVB operates. Just be a doer not a whiner. I believe Rick is at or has past the age of retirement by now. If he is a good business man, I'm sure he has the money. If he retires now or in the next few years, is that really a victory or closure? He would be doing it on his own terms, right? Just a thought. But no one will discuss because you have your blinders on.
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Post by Northern lights on Jul 26, 2016 11:06:58 GMT -5
So different states, 20-22 years of age and contacts that person to work side by side at a camp, sitting arm and arm around his mom and sister with a huge smile on her face, really? You might want to read what Tracey said when she would see her abuser in the neighborhood, now that is normal. You need to be quiet and go away right about now. Rick Butler is a grown man, who can face these allegations as such. These women were young girls (15-18) at the time of the abuse.
Do yourself a favour and study on the dynamics of identification, shame, guilt and self blame that young victims of sexual and physiological abuse go through for years.
Your first reaction as a member of society, should be to take serious the abuse of young woman (1 out of 3 will endure some form of it). Your second reaction should be to recognize, there are more than one or two allegations here. If I recall correctly the number should be around 5-10. Any reputable crime expert will tell you that a person accused of five instances, has probably committed more than 20 offences before it finally catches up to him. Why would so many women relay similar stories? Your third reaction should be to ask yourself, why a man of Rick Bulter's status and accumulated wealth, does not commit himself to an open and fair adjudication of these allegations. After all if Rick Butler is innocent he stands to gain the most from the truth coming out, agreed?
The continual re-victimization really irks me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 11:16:32 GMT -5
I am wondering where the experts are in all this? A group of people rounding up other coaches, players and working together to understand how this historically came to be. Lets learn from what colleges are doing with sexual assault on campuses. There is definite progress there! Because a group of people gathered to make changes. There are a lot of sources for the history of this issue. There is a disturbing undercurrent of "that's the way it used to be and you don't want to look too close because there may be more". Too me, that is the reason to look sooner and harder at the issue within youth volleyball, not to ignore it. Rather than rehash it here, it's better to search through other threads here where you can find many links to articles and other material all the way from 2 decades ago to the present. ESPN OTL did a recent series of stories on Rick Butler and the AAU that are available online. They give a pretty good overview and are a good place to start. What are colleges doing now? Well, the University of Nebraska football coach Mike Reilly, with support from his athletic director, just invited rape victim Brenda Tracy to come speak to his team almost exactly one month ago. He invited her in particular, because she was raped by his players 18 years ago at Oregon State, and it took her over 16 years before she was able to come forward publicly to put her name and face to the crime. While at Nebraska she found out about Rick Butler and that he was scheduled to appear at a local club. She asked people to contact the volleyball club to stop his appearance, and his appearance was cancelled. Mike Reilly was very impressed with her and recommended to the new Baylor coach that he bring her in to talk to his team in light of all the problems they have had. Apparently she will now do that. That is one example of what schools are doing now. It also shows the power of victims coming forward, and hopefully will empower other victims to step forward and tell their stories.
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Post by 642fiddi on Jul 26, 2016 11:18:20 GMT -5
dbeyr, swimrowvb, dukesbeachhouse, thegovernor, Thank you for the graphic lesson in exactly why women are so often reluctant to pursue prosecution against their assailants and prefer to remain anonymous. Because of you, I have a small taste of the powerful fear and intimidation these women have been living under for 30 years, and better understand the courage it takes to come forward. Haha. Typical response and labeling. I guess everyone needs to jump on the bandwagon. I am a female so your response is very ignorant. I like how I have never once said I agreed with Rick Butler and what happened 30 years ago. Just trying to get your facts straight and stop throwing around your twisted information. I guess we should blindly follow you and everyone else. That would probably make you happy. So keep this thread at the top. Keep posting it doesn't bother me anyways. Just get your facts straight. Please contact the USAV, AAU, NCAA, AVCA, JVA and all the other alphabet soup. Try to impact the area that SPVB operates. Just be a doer not a whiner. I believe Rick is at or has past the age of retirement by now. If he is a good business man, I'm sure he has the money. If he retires now or in the next few years, is that really a victory or closure? He would be doing it on his own terms, right? Just a thought. But no one will discuss because you have your blinders on. I don't really care what mechanism is used to get him out as long as he goes. If he want to retire that would be great. We could probably all pitch in and buy him a gold watch,I mean a gold boot for Northern lights to deliver.
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Post by Northern lights on Jul 26, 2016 11:22:10 GMT -5
I am new to all this and am fearful I may get slammed but here it goes… I am wondering where the experts are in all this? A group of people rounding up other coaches, players and working together to understand how this historically came to be. Lets learn from what colleges are doing with sexual assault on campuses. There is definite progress there! Because a group of people gathered to make changes. There are many coaches who have had relationships with players and married them. Fortunately, their stories are good ones. Even though inappropriate. They may give a perspective of understanding, the how and what today could of made a pause in their decision. In order to create rules, laws, regulations you have to assess first. Instead of rehashing, what is the appropriate plan for the future to protect kids or athletes under an organization or person of power? The 70' and 80's are certainly way different than today. There are too many different regulations from the different organizations that can be the same. Victims should tell their story, Coaches should tell their stories, families and witnesses. Now, make changes and educate to make certain this doesn't occur again. Yes, we have to listen to those who acted to learn as well. I am not a victim, I could never understand what that is like. Based on what I am hearing through all the stories, I would guess part of healing would be a change in how we operate here on out. If this was about getting together in a "safe" place for real dialogue, perhaps more victims would come forward. If you want to go fast go alone…if you want to go far go together-stole that from Cory Booker. Let the slamming begin…be nice I am just a rookie here. You did fine, welcome.
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Post by pancakes on Jul 26, 2016 11:37:56 GMT -5
Any parents who sign up their daughter in Butler's program should have their heads examined. Butler should not EVER coach or be involved with girls again -- and that should have happened years ago, instead we see the results of action/lack of action by the cowardly and blindfolded organizations running the sport. All colleges should stop ANY contact with this man. Period. The man had intercourse, by his OWN admission, with three players. The age of consent does not matter in the argument -- whether they were 18 or 15 -- they were HIS PLAYERS. That, people, is a sick man who is never to be trusted. It doesn't matter that he is married now, not one iota. These women did not lie, nor should it ever be insinuated otherwise. They suffer. He makes money and disparages them. Oh, and the justification that coaches end up marrying their players? I have a hard time following that line of defense: because, again, Rick Butler had intercourse (players say raped) at least three of his players. The state of marriage within a coach-player relationship is not relevant to that argument.
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