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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Apr 7, 2017 23:59:43 GMT -5
I think that RAMS making Iosia quit Beach is unfair. I know many will disagree with me, but there is something to be said for sticking out a commitment. I appreciate RAMS being dedicated to doing well indoors. However, it is not fair to the teammates and Beach staff. The team (both staff and players) invested time in Iosia and could have been developing a different pairing instead of her (had they known this would happen). And what about her partner? Will Zalopany not see much time now? Sure she played a match with Ozee but then next match she is ousted for Ozee's regular partner. I would also be ticked if she made Mags quit too! Strictly from a Beach perspective, I think RAMS should have let her finish the season out in fairness to everyone else. Indoor and Beach are two separate teams. Beach does not exist to support the indoor team (though it can be beneficial). The girls on the Beach team dedicate every much of themselves to the sport and are there to pursue their own National Championship. Whether or not, you are an indoor fan more or not, it is still not fair. Luckily UH still has some depth but not playing at the higher level of competition (sorry even exhibition is a step below ) could hurt them. It's a tough time of year with only one weekend left in their regular season to do this. Hopefully Ozee can step up with whomever she is paired with. I understand your points, and get where you're coming from. A couple of things, though. One, I was very surprised that Norene was added to the beach team in the first place. She hates playing beach, so I'm guessing it wasn't her decision to get on the sand. Two, it's not like she was a vital cog in the Hawaii beach program - replacing her at the 5's isn't particularly difficult. Three, Robyn pulling Norene to focus on indoor is a good thing for the Wahine indoor program going forward, and after all, she's on an indoor schollie. IMO.
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Post by newbeach on Apr 8, 2017 0:38:47 GMT -5
I think that RAMS making Iosia quit Beach is unfair. I know many will disagree with me, but there is something to be said for sticking out a commitment. I appreciate RAMS being dedicated to doing well indoors. However, it is not fair to the teammates and Beach staff. The team (both staff and players) invested time in Iosia and could have been developing a different pairing instead of her (had they known this would happen). And what about her partner? Will Zalopany not see much time now? Sure she played a match with Ozee but then next match she is ousted for Ozee's regular partner. I would also be ticked if she made Mags quit too! Strictly from a Beach perspective, I think RAMS should have let her finish the season out in fairness to everyone else. Indoor and Beach are two separate teams. Beach does not exist to support the indoor team (though it can be beneficial). The girls on the Beach team dedicate every much of themselves to the sport and are there to pursue their own National Championship. Whether or not, you are an indoor fan more or not, it is still not fair. Luckily UH still has some depth but not playing at the higher level of competition (sorry even exhibition is a step below ) could hurt them. It's a tough time of year with only one weekend left in their regular season to do this. Hopefully Ozee can step up with whomever she is paired with. I understand your points, and get where you're coming from. A couple of things, though. One, I was very surprised that Norene was added to the beach team in the first place. She hates playing beach, so I'm guessing it wasn't her decision to get on the sand. Two, it's not like she was a vital cog in the Hawaii beach program - replacing her at the 5's isn't particularly difficult. Three, Robyn pulling Norene to focus on indoor is a good thing for the Wahine indoor program going forward, and after all, she's on an indoor schollie. IMO. Actually my understanding is that she was not specifically asked to play Beach (in fact Beach staff assumed she wasn't going to play though she was, of course welcome to). She chose to join the team (hence her somewhat late addition to the roster). She was not forced to play Beach and made the decision on her own. I don't think it's fair that another coach step in (past) mid-season and disrupt another team. She was also playing at the number 4 position the last several matches. The further along it is in the season can be very disruptive. It means two teams have to step up and play at a higher level. It means that some of these players now won't have the opportunity to square of with (and get to know their opponents tendencies) until the Championships (should they make it). I get that her scholarship lies with Indioor and when she is asked not to play Beach, I don't think she really has a choice. I do not believe she would have quit right now without having been asked to. From an Indoor perspective it can be argued whether or not it was beneficial for her to train Beach or to spend more time indoors.From the Beach team's perspective (the girls and her partner included) it is irrelevant. I guess it is the timing that makes it unfortunate. Any team that loses one of their top flights hurts a little (the more depth a team has the less the hurt). I wonder how Jeff and the other coaching staff feel about having to change game plans and strategies they were working on with the Iosia/ Zalopany pairing? Time will tell if it hurts Hawaii. On a positive note, someone else will be given the opportunity to step up.
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Post by wang pu on Apr 8, 2017 10:23:01 GMT -5
I think I may have missed it, but when did RAMS make Iosia quit beach? I think that RAMS making Iosia quit Beach is unfair. I know many will disagree with me, but there is something to be said for sticking out a commitment. I appreciate RAMS being dedicated to doing well indoors. However, it is not fair to the teammates and Beach staff. The team (both staff and players) invested time in Iosia and could have been developing a different pairing instead of her (had they known this would happen). And what about her partner? Will Zalopany not see much time now? Sure she played a match with Ozee but then next match she is ousted for Ozee's regular partner. I would also be ticked if she made Mags quit too! Strictly from a Beach perspective, I think RAMS should have let her finish the season out in fairness to everyone else. Indoor and Beach are two separate teams. Beach does not exist to support the indoor team (though it can be beneficial). The girls on the Beach team dedicate every much of themselves to the sport and are there to pursue their own National Championship. Whether or not, you are an indoor fan more or not, it is still not fair. Luckily UH still has some depth but not playing at the higher level of competition (sorry even exhibition is a step below ) could hurt them. It's a tough time of year with only one weekend left in their regular season to do this. Hopefully Ozee can step up with whomever she is paired with.
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Post by johnbar on Apr 8, 2017 11:30:42 GMT -5
At Stanford, the indoor coach is also the "Director of Women's Volleyball", and the beach HC reports to him. (Originally that was Dunning and now it is Hambly.) It gives the indoor coach clear authority in cases like this when there might be conflicts between beach and indoor; it does not depend on what type of scholarship an athlete has.
I don't know how common this type of arrangement is. Does UH have a similar arrangement? Or do both coaches report to the AD (or an AAD)?
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Apr 8, 2017 12:26:33 GMT -5
At Stanford, the indoor coach is also the "Director of Women's Volleyball", and the beach HC reports to him. (Originally that was Dunning and now it is Hambly.) It gives the indoor coach clear authority in cases like this when there might be conflicts between beach and indoor; it does not depend on what type of scholarship an athlete has. I don't know how common this type of arrangement is. Does UH have a similar arrangement? Or do both coaches report to the AD (or an AAD)? That is the arrangement at almost every school with both programs. While some schools don't formally add the "Director of Volleyball" tag to the indoor coach, the hierarchy reminds the same. The only exceptions I can think of are USC, where there is a clear firewall between the two programs, and Pepperdine, where Nina works with Scott but most definitely does not work for him.
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Post by VollyDolly on Apr 8, 2017 22:55:56 GMT -5
Hawaii with the upset over Pepperdine. Flights 3, 4, 5 all win in straight sets. 1 and 2 still to come.
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Post by newbeach on Apr 8, 2017 23:44:58 GMT -5
I think I may have missed it, but when did RAMS make Iosia quit beach? I think that RAMS making Iosia quit Beach is unfair. I know many will disagree with me, but there is something to be said for sticking out a commitment. I appreciate RAMS being dedicated to doing well indoors. However, it is not fair to the teammates and Beach staff. The team (both staff and players) invested time in Iosia and could have been developing a different pairing instead of her (had they known this would happen). And what about her partner? Will Zalopany not see much time now? Sure she played a match with Ozee but then next match she is ousted for Ozee's regular partner. I would also be ticked if she made Mags quit too! Strictly from a Beach perspective, I think RAMS should have let her finish the season out in fairness to everyone else. Indoor and Beach are two separate teams. Beach does not exist to support the indoor team (though it can be beneficial). The girls on the Beach team dedicate every much of themselves to the sport and are there to pursue their own National Championship. Whether or not, you are an indoor fan more or not, it is still not fair. Luckily UH still has some depth but not playing at the higher level of competition (sorry even exhibition is a step below ) could hurt them. It's a tough time of year with only one weekend left in their regular season to do this. Hopefully Ozee can step up with whomever she is paired with. Cindy' blog says that RAMS told Iosia this week (when she was in town for indoor practices) that she didn't want her to play Beach. She said Iosia was off the team.
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Post by newbeach on Apr 8, 2017 23:51:06 GMT -5
Hawaii with the upset over Pepperdine. Flights 3, 4, 5 all win in straight sets. 1 and 2 still to come. Here's the link to the rally at the 3 Flight to win the match... twitter.com/HawaiiAthletics
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Post by wang pu on Apr 10, 2017 18:21:59 GMT -5
I think I may have missed it, but when did RAMS make Iosia quit beach? Cindy' blog says that RAMS told Iosia this week (when she was in town for indoor practices) that she didn't want her to play Beach. She said Iosia was off the team. I don't think that it is unfair for RAMS to make Iosia quit. And, I think it is a little unfair to categorize it in such a negative manner. We don't know the circumstances behind it. It could be where Iosia was not able to handle everything in being a Student Athlete for the whole year (as opposed to mainly fall semester) and RAMS recognized this and suggested Iosia to stop playing beach. Also, Iosia's scholarship lies with Indoor, so Indoor should have the priority. As for the team, I am a little disappointed that more players have not made the competition pairs. Hall has established his top pairs/players, just wish he would develop the bench "just in case" and to reward players for working hard and improving.
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Post by hwnstunner on Apr 10, 2017 19:43:22 GMT -5
Cindy' blog says that RAMS told Iosia this week (when she was in town for indoor practices) that she didn't want her to play Beach. She said Iosia was off the team. I don't think that it is unfair for RAMS to make Iosia quit. And, I think it is a little unfair to categorize it in such a negative manner. We don't know the circumstances behind it. It could be where Iosia was not able to handle everything in being a Student Athlete for the whole year (as opposed to mainly fall semester) and RAMS recognized this and suggested Iosia to stop playing beach. Also, Iosia's scholarship lies with Indoor, so Indoor should have the priority. As for the team, I am a little disappointed that more players have not made the competition pairs. Hall has established his top pairs/players, just wish he would develop the bench "just in case" and to reward players for working hard and improving. Well, this team is overloaded in general. 28 at it's max is crazy considering only 10 play regularly and Hall has played four pairs all year. I think a lot of the heralded freshmen have redshirted and will be available next year. On top of that, I would think many of the indoor players will no longer be able to play next season anyway. I remember reading that Hall allowed many of the indoor players to play Beach because he hasn't sure if Ah Mow would let them once she became the coach. Still, if I was a Beach-only recruit coming to Hawaii and being benched because a bunch of "walk on" indoor players are taking positions, I'd transfer. I'd expect next year's team to be under 20 with majority beach players. Hawaii will be right there for the foreseeable future. If Ah Mow only took out Iosia, I have a feeling it has to do with academics more than anything. Kahakai and Mitchem are probably more concerned about the National Indoor Team. But if the rest are still on the team, I'm sure there's more to it than we know.
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Post by newbeach on Apr 10, 2017 21:24:40 GMT -5
It is fair that I do not know all the particulars surrounding the situation (academics etc.). What I do know is that it was not her decision to step down prior to RAMS intervention.
An athlete on the Beach team may have a different perspective from somwowho is an Indoor fan. The athletes are a team working (and committed ) toward a goal. It is disruptive to the team (from the partner, to the girls who want to win a championship to the coaches who have invested hours watching video and strategizing on behalf of that pairing (especially with where the are at in the season).
As an athlete, it can be frustrating (and seemingly unfair). I don't expect everyone to understand or agree with that perspective.
I am hopeful the team can work through it! They had already lost one of their best players to a rule infraction so it is unfortunate to lose another top player this season. Nonetheless, Go Bows!
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Post by kalihifc on Apr 10, 2017 21:31:46 GMT -5
Here's my (probably) incomplete accounting.
12 players were in the competition pairs. 6 others played exhibitions (apparently, Anderson and Mitchem played 1 match each). 18 seem like a sufficient number who played, considering most rosters have around that many or fewer.
Frosh who played were Martin (1) and Ozee (4/5) (plus Iosia [4/5]). Hertzog and Luyties played exhibitions and traveled as well.
I love the way Pepp played this weekend. They're mobile and pursue and cover intensely. They can score on 1 and 2 and even on digs to the opposite court when it seems like the shot is going down.
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Post by wang pu on Apr 10, 2017 22:15:16 GMT -5
I don't think that it is unfair for RAMS to make Iosia quit. And, I think it is a little unfair to categorize it in such a negative manner. We don't know the circumstances behind it. It could be where Iosia was not able to handle everything in being a Student Athlete for the whole year (as opposed to mainly fall semester) and RAMS recognized this and suggested Iosia to stop playing beach. Also, Iosia's scholarship lies with Indoor, so Indoor should have the priority. As for the team, I am a little disappointed that more players have not made the competition pairs. Hall has established his top pairs/players, just wish he would develop the bench "just in case" and to reward players for working hard and improving. Well, this team is overloaded in general. 28 at it's max is crazy considering only 10 play regularly and Hall has played four pairs all year. I think a lot of the heralded freshmen have redshirted and will be available next year. On top of that, I would think many of the indoor players will no longer be able to play next season anyway. I remember reading that Hall allowed many of the indoor players to play Beach because he hasn't sure if Ah Mow would let them once she became the coach. Still, if I was a Beach-only recruit coming to Hawaii and being benched because a bunch of "walk on" indoor players are taking positions, I'd transfer. I'd expect next year's team to be under 20 with majority beach players. Hawaii will be right there for the foreseeable future. If Ah Mow only took out Iosia, I have a feeling it has to do with academics more than anything. Kahakai and Mitchem are probably more concerned about the National Indoor Team. But if the rest are still on the team, I'm sure there's more to it than we know. One thing that I don't understand, is how effective can the practices be with 28 players? That is a lot of players to spread a limited number of touches among. Question about the players who only played in exhibition matches......are they eligible to redshirt?
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Post by trollhunter on Apr 10, 2017 22:33:55 GMT -5
Well, this team is overloaded in general. 28 at it's max is crazy considering only 10 play regularly and Hall has played four pairs all year. I think a lot of the heralded freshmen have redshirted and will be available next year. On top of that, I would think many of the indoor players will no longer be able to play next season anyway. I remember reading that Hall allowed many of the indoor players to play Beach because he hasn't sure if Ah Mow would let them once she became the coach. Still, if I was a Beach-only recruit coming to Hawaii and being benched because a bunch of "walk on" indoor players are taking positions, I'd transfer. I'd expect next year's team to be under 20 with majority beach players. Hawaii will be right there for the foreseeable future. If Ah Mow only took out Iosia, I have a feeling it has to do with academics more than anything. Kahakai and Mitchem are probably more concerned about the National Indoor Team. But if the rest are still on the team, I'm sure there's more to it than we know. One thing that I don't understand, is how effective can the practices be with 28 players? That is a lot of players to spread a limited number of touches among. Question about the players who only played in exhibition matches......are they eligible to redshirt? No, that burns their redshirt. It would be nice if they put in legislation that exempted it. Like scrimmages and such in other sports.
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Post by wang pu on Apr 11, 2017 0:32:53 GMT -5
One thing that I don't understand, is how effective can the practices be with 28 players? That is a lot of players to spread a limited number of touches among. Question about the players who only played in exhibition matches......are they eligible to redshirt? No, that burns their redshirt. It would be nice if they put in legislation that exempted it. Like scrimmages and such in other sports. That sucks. It's not like exhibitions count toward the team score.
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